Candidate Ownership - within a firm - RecruitingBlogs2024-03-28T12:29:49Zhttps://recruitingblogs.com/forum/topics/candidate-ownership-within-a-firm?commentId=502551%3AComment%3A1674122&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHad to add my 2 cents here as…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2013-03-12:502551:Comment:16741222013-03-12T15:28:49.593ZAlan Fluhrerhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Afluhrer
<p>Had to add my 2 cents here as I have seen this done in many ways. Good and bad.</p>
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<p>There's a bit more to it and a few of the comments hit on these points. In the end this should be about creating, building and maintaining relationships.</p>
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<p>1. There needs to be a defined time, 90 days, 6 months, whatever. After that the candidate is up for grabs if the person that originally entered that person, has NOT contacted them. The main test should be: prove you have the…</p>
<p>Had to add my 2 cents here as I have seen this done in many ways. Good and bad.</p>
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<p>There's a bit more to it and a few of the comments hit on these points. In the end this should be about creating, building and maintaining relationships.</p>
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<p>1. There needs to be a defined time, 90 days, 6 months, whatever. After that the candidate is up for grabs if the person that originally entered that person, has NOT contacted them. The main test should be: prove you have the relationship, not a piece of paper.</p>
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<p>2. It also depends on how your company structures the commissions. In 1 company I knew 80% of the Comm got paid to the candidate side, the client side person got 20%. This encouraged 'resume banking', and list building. Very bad for building business. A big problem that arose was, clients were worse off. Account mangers would not look at presenting many candidates because they knew how much $$$ they's be losing. So, they wouldn't present those candidates and would go find their own, if they could. </p>
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<p>This way of doing things does appear to work better when a company is in more of a start-up mode and the owner has most of the relationships. Then as things grow, potentially modifying it, could work.</p>
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<p>One other thing to note, is....if you are going to have this type of set up, and depending on your commission structure, and how many people are in your firm......Just saw this happen many years ago and is one of the reasons I can pull database log files: I saw a few people back data entries so it looked like they had spoke with the person within the last 3 months. Pulling the log files saved me and got me my $$$</p>
<p></p> Okey Dokey - looks like we've…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2013-03-07:502551:Comment:16720622013-03-07T18:31:36.113ZJerry Albrighthttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/JerryAlbright
<p>Okey Dokey - looks like we've covered it. Thanks for the discussion everybody!</p>
<p>Okey Dokey - looks like we've covered it. Thanks for the discussion everybody!</p> In our case - I don't want pe…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2013-03-07:502551:Comment:16722232013-03-07T18:23:16.095ZSarah Beddowhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/SarahBeddow
<p>In our case - I don't want people to stop and look them up, and then ask someone if they can call them. So with our new rule, chances are that there is a job order that is more than 2weeks old that they can be subbed to with all the credit going to the recruiter with the new contact. <br></br> <br></br> <cite>Jerry Albright said:…</cite></p>
<p>In our case - I don't want people to stop and look them up, and then ask someone if they can call them. So with our new rule, chances are that there is a job order that is more than 2weeks old that they can be subbed to with all the credit going to the recruiter with the new contact. <br/> <br/> <cite>Jerry Albright said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.recruitingblogs.com/forum/topics/candidate-ownership-within-a-firm?commentId=502551%3AComment%3A1672148&xg_source=msg_com_forum#502551Comment1672148"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>So let's look at a more specific example.</p>
<p>Recruiter B is recruiting. He's on the phone with someone who is not interested. The disinterested candidate refers his associate. Recruiter B calls this new candidate right after hanging up. (Like a good recruiter should do IMHO)</p>
<p>They talk at length and decide to pursue the job.</p>
<p>Later it is discovered a recruiter put his name/resume/profile into your ATS 4 years ago. That person got lost in the 150,000 names and had not been contacted since then.</p>
<p><br/>What happens in this case?</p>
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</blockquote> Honestly I find this topic ex…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2013-03-07:502551:Comment:16720602013-03-07T18:20:48.054ZSarah Beddowhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/SarahBeddow
<p>Honestly I find this topic exhausting. </p>
<p>I do think that two weeks is a bit much - and at the same time a huge improvement from what we had. We also highly value "the golden rule" so in the example given where Recruiter A entered someone in the database in 2009, and Rec. B had them interviewing a month ago - and then a new job comes out, Recruiter A still has the ownership techinically, but I think in practice they would let Rec B have it. Honestly I'm fine either way and…</p>
<p>Honestly I find this topic exhausting. </p>
<p>I do think that two weeks is a bit much - and at the same time a huge improvement from what we had. We also highly value "the golden rule" so in the example given where Recruiter A entered someone in the database in 2009, and Rec. B had them interviewing a month ago - and then a new job comes out, Recruiter A still has the ownership techinically, but I think in practice they would let Rec B have it. Honestly I'm fine either way and the problem with the golden rule (in this office) is that we have different philosphies at play. </p>
<p>Our office is a small perm shop, no turnover and people building the database since 2006. Until 2years ago they didn't even put placements in the system. So we wanted something that didn't require them to put in notes, although it would certainly be to their benefit to do so.</p>
<p>Our job orders have a very long sales cycle as we are placing very niche developers at startups. Very specific skills and a very high bar. Only 15% of our orders are younger than 2 weeks old. That being said, I wanted it to be one week. The long time recruiters here want (a minimum) 10% of a fee for anyone that they put in the database. 99% of the time there are no notes associated with the entry except for contact information. So to me that effort took about 15 seconds on a company paid resource. From their POV they had to know that the candidate was right for what we do...and we aren't paid a salary - 100% commission - with a draw.</p>
<p>This is a work in process. If it doesn't work....we'll change it. :)</p>
<p>Sandra- you didn't mention the 90 days in your first post. But that may have been for the best.</p> So let's look at a more speci…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2013-03-07:502551:Comment:16721482013-03-07T17:54:19.557ZJerry Albrighthttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/JerryAlbright
<p>So let's look at a more specific example.</p>
<p>Recruiter B is recruiting. He's on the phone with someone who is not interested. The disinterested candidate refers his associate. Recruiter B calls this new candidate right after hanging up. (Like a good recruiter should do IMHO)</p>
<p>They talk at length and decide to pursue the job.</p>
<p>Later it is discovered a recruiter put his name/resume/profile into your ATS 4 years ago. That person got lost in the 150,000 names and had not been…</p>
<p>So let's look at a more specific example.</p>
<p>Recruiter B is recruiting. He's on the phone with someone who is not interested. The disinterested candidate refers his associate. Recruiter B calls this new candidate right after hanging up. (Like a good recruiter should do IMHO)</p>
<p>They talk at length and decide to pursue the job.</p>
<p>Later it is discovered a recruiter put his name/resume/profile into your ATS 4 years ago. That person got lost in the 150,000 names and had not been contacted since then.</p>
<p><br/>What happens in this case?</p> Jerry- If they got one from a…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2013-03-07:502551:Comment:16719792013-03-07T17:26:31.073ZSteve N Odellhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/SteveNOdell
<p>Jerry- If they got one from a posting (that we paid for and our research team wrote the add and posted it) How much time have they really spent. If they place that candidate they get all of the comm or split just for having a conversation.(Company does not pay less comm or take off anything for house) That's a good deal and there has to be "give and take".</p>
<p>Most of their contacts go to folks already in our database ( we have over 150,000 in there). But some times research gives them a…</p>
<p>Jerry- If they got one from a posting (that we paid for and our research team wrote the add and posted it) How much time have they really spent. If they place that candidate they get all of the comm or split just for having a conversation.(Company does not pay less comm or take off anything for house) That's a good deal and there has to be "give and take".</p>
<p>Most of their contacts go to folks already in our database ( we have over 150,000 in there). But some times research gives them a list with name, title, and phone # and email address. It does happen that they contact someone that was in the database under ownership of someone else, but only if that recruiter is still with the firm. That is a pisser but sometimes the candidates says I have already spoke to so and so are you already have my resume. But again sometimes they don't. When a recruiter leaves all their candidates become open status and anyone can place w/o split. Another good deal.</p> There are parts of what every…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2013-03-07:502551:Comment:16719752013-03-07T17:19:11.638ZDanny Powellhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/3mcncx8s1fqlz
<p><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;">There are parts of what everyone is saying that I agree with.... and disagree with. If it is a perm full-desk shop, then IMHO the candidate should belong to the recruiter for life. That is as long as they have fully documented the conversations and have filled out a profile. I know personally that I have had had candidates that I have represented early on in their career that are now hiring from me. I have…</span></p>
<p><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;">There are parts of what everyone is saying that I agree with.... and disagree with. If it is a perm full-desk shop, then IMHO the candidate should belong to the recruiter for life. That is as long as they have fully documented the conversations and have filled out a profile. I know personally that I have had had candidates that I have represented early on in their career that are now hiring from me. I have also built relationships with candidates that I have never placed but would certainly know who I am. Candidates are an important part of marketing and information gathering.</span></p>
<p><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;">On the other hand, if it is a split desk environment and a large fast paced office, I have always used a 6 month rule. If there is no documentation for 6 months then it is open season.</span></p>
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<p><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 10pt;">Great conversation by the way and good question Jerry. My answer would be in a fulldesk shop, yes they have to check the database</span></p> So for the lifetime ownership…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2013-03-07:502551:Comment:16720462013-03-07T17:00:42.454ZJerry Albrighthttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/JerryAlbright
<p>So for the lifetime ownership crowd - what do you do when Recruiter B finds Recruiter A's candidate somewhere new? Outside of your ATS? Say they dig up a great candidate through a referral or job posting?</p>
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<p>Do they have to check with the internal database before each recruit call? If yes - why? </p>
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<p>Thanks for the discussion. :)</p>
<p>So for the lifetime ownership crowd - what do you do when Recruiter B finds Recruiter A's candidate somewhere new? Outside of your ATS? Say they dig up a great candidate through a referral or job posting?</p>
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<p>Do they have to check with the internal database before each recruit call? If yes - why? </p>
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<p>Thanks for the discussion. :)</p> 1 year from last info post is…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2013-03-07:502551:Comment:16720432013-03-07T16:57:28.519ZDan Ogdenhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Dan154
<p>1 year from last info post is what we use, but we are all a team - so if someone's on the database, we ask the candidate a/e of record to update if we think the candidate makes sense and was found via external search. Oftentimes one of us will plainly state we are out of touch with the candidate and the update can go to the recruiter who's inquiring, though many times not.</p>
<p>Of course, if the candidate was found via ATS search, there is certainly less of a question - their existence on…</p>
<p>1 year from last info post is what we use, but we are all a team - so if someone's on the database, we ask the candidate a/e of record to update if we think the candidate makes sense and was found via external search. Oftentimes one of us will plainly state we are out of touch with the candidate and the update can go to the recruiter who's inquiring, though many times not.</p>
<p>Of course, if the candidate was found via ATS search, there is certainly less of a question - their existence on the database points squarely at the candidate a/e of record in the "but for" test.</p>
<p>Ultimately in our business it's sometimes a little difficult to remind our co-workers (and ourselves) that we'll get more done working together than trying to be sneaky or territorial. The axiom about 50% of a fee or 100% of nothing comes to mind...</p> It is something we wrestle wi…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2013-03-07:502551:Comment:16720402013-03-07T16:53:14.754ZSteve N Odellhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/SteveNOdell
<p>It is something we wrestle with constantly. Our policy is that it is theirs for life. If you live by the "but for" rule, if it wasn't for the original recruiter bringing them in and getting them in the database NO ONE would even be talking to them. Our philosophy is that it gives senior recruiters a extra chance to make some $$. It is kind of like a residual. So make it a good deal for the recruiter that stays and produces. It could cut down on turnover instead of them being pissed that…</p>
<p>It is something we wrestle with constantly. Our policy is that it is theirs for life. If you live by the "but for" rule, if it wasn't for the original recruiter bringing them in and getting them in the database NO ONE would even be talking to them. Our philosophy is that it gives senior recruiters a extra chance to make some $$. It is kind of like a residual. So make it a good deal for the recruiter that stays and produces. It could cut down on turnover instead of them being pissed that someone "stole" their candidate. If after 3 weeks if recruiter A didn't present their candidate and recruiter B sees it in the database, they give A a courtesy "heads up" that they have a candidate that may fit. Recruiter A has to reach out to speak to thier's about the job. Since we do a lot of internal splits (9 recruiters)Recruiter B gets a $250 bonus that comes off the top before Candidate A's commission is figured. B made $250 for just saying check it out and A didn't feel slighted as much. </p>