Challenge My Ideal. C'mon, I Dare you. - RecruitingBlogs2024-03-28T19:36:01Zhttps://recruitingblogs.com/forum/topics/challenge-my-ideal-cmon-i?commentId=502551%3AComment%3A697943&feed=yes&xn_auth=no(My response was stimulated b…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-06-30:502551:Comment:7001932009-06-30T15:32:56.668ZJim Cantohttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/jimcanto
<b>(My response was stimulated by Steve's post and is not directed at Steve exclusively.)</b><br />
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Great link, Steve. Though, from my perspective, it's less about "common ground" and more about how we treat each other when we're not on "common ground." Please allow me to explain my thoughts.<br />
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If we're on Common Ground, there's not much left to figure out aside from where we are going next...and isn't that the longer term objective; Forward Progress? I think magic happens when polar opposites can…
<b>(My response was stimulated by Steve's post and is not directed at Steve exclusively.)</b><br />
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Great link, Steve. Though, from my perspective, it's less about "common ground" and more about how we treat each other when we're not on "common ground." Please allow me to explain my thoughts.<br />
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If we're on Common Ground, there's not much left to figure out aside from where we are going next...and isn't that the longer term objective; Forward Progress? I think magic happens when polar opposites can debate and negotiate in good faith towards a mutual goal. That does not mean that one "side" has to compromise their integrity. It simply means that, in the end, one side discovers information they did not know or views an issue from an angle they had not examined causing that party to subsequently draw the same conclusion as the "opposing" party. At that point, they can take on a new issue along the path to the larger target or goal...whatever it may be. In my opinion, if we're at war (the opposite of "good faith" negotiation and debate) it's very difficult to see or hear clearly and objectively.<br />
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This does not mean that the parties will not engage passionately in support of their position/belief. It simply suggests that <b>mutual</b> <b>respect</b> breeds positive results and does not foster ill will. Call me crazy, but that sounds civilized.<br />
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Now, in the end, if we respectfully disagree; so be it. At least we gave each other an opportunity to combine our respective efforts and knowledge towards a common goal with as little collateral damage as possible....as in "community."<br />
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<a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:community&ei=eiVKSsytJ4maMLP4xawB&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title" target="_blank"><b>Definitions of community on the Web:</b></a><br />
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> a group of people living in a particular local area; "the <b>team</b> is drawn from all parts of the community"<br />
> <b>common ownership</b>; "they shared a community of possessions"<br />
> a group of nations having <b>common interests</b>; "they hoped to join the NATO community"<br />
> <b>agreement as to goals</b>; "the preachers and the bootleggers found they had a community of interests"<br />
> residential district: a district where people live; occupied primarily by private residences<br />
> (ecology) a group of <b>interdependent organisms inhabiting the same region and interacting with each other</b><br />
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Interestingly, RecruitingBlogs.com is a Niche Community.<br />
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<a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:niche&ei=9ChKSu3QLZD6MNOljaMB&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title" target="_blank"><b>Definitions of niche on the Web:</b></a><br />
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> a position particularly well suited to the person who occupies it; "he found his niche in the academic world"<br />
> recess: a small concavity<br />
> recess: an enclosure that is set back or indented<br />
> (ecology) the <b>status of an organism within its</b> environment and <b>community</b> (<b>affecting its survival as a species</b>)<br />
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In my opinion, "how we engage" speaks directly to <b>our</b> "survival as a species." I'll leave the definition of "our" to your imagination. I was reminded recently, watc…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-06-30:502551:Comment:7001502009-06-30T14:55:55.821ZMaureen Sharibhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/MaureenSharib
I was reminded recently, watching the mini-series John Adams (recommended greatly!) that the founding fathers of the United States were a most fractious bunch - George Washington's cabinet barely tolerated each other, some often engaging in vicious but open animosity - great things were accomplished none-the-less.
I was reminded recently, watching the mini-series John Adams (recommended greatly!) that the founding fathers of the United States were a most fractious bunch - George Washington's cabinet barely tolerated each other, some often engaging in vicious but open animosity - great things were accomplished none-the-less. Common ground can hamper inno…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-06-30:502551:Comment:7000712009-06-30T12:59:04.125ZSteve Levyhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Dieselevy
<a href="http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/research/fast_commongroup.html?cmpid=research" target="_blank">Common ground can hamper innovation</a>:<br />
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<i>"...because it's human nature for people to try to find common ground when talking to others, simple everyday conversations could have the unfortunate side effect of blocking many of the best and most innovative ideas from the collective social consciousness."</i><br />
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So conversation among group members can lean towards the trivial.<br />
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<i>"In many…</i>
<a href="http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/research/fast_commongroup.html?cmpid=research" target="_blank">Common ground can hamper innovation</a>:<br />
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<i>"...because it's human nature for people to try to find common ground when talking to others, simple everyday conversations could have the unfortunate side effect of blocking many of the best and most innovative ideas from the collective social consciousness."</i><br />
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So conversation among group members can lean towards the trivial.<br />
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<i>"In many ways, Fast’s and his colleagues' research validates the idea of the "Matthew Effect," so called by sociologist Robert K. Merton after a Biblical passage from the Gospel of Matthew. Popularly paraphrased as "the rich get richer, the poor get poorer," the Matthew Effect as applied to the research by Fast, Heath, and Wu implies that the more people are talked about, the larger a role they play in society—and the more they will subsequently get talked about. This creates a self-reinforcing ramping up of social prominence that is not necessarily deserved, according to Fast."</i><br />
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Lessons?<br />
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Not every conversation requires input.<br />
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Too much press does not imply importance and influence; can we say Perez Hilton?<br />
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<i>"But it is critical to remember that the most prominent people in your organization are not always the ones producing the highest-quality work; they might just be better at selling themselves." And, perhaps more important, "leaders and change agents should try [to] introduce the ideas and elements they would like to be absorbed into culture in ways that make them serve as fodder for ongoing conversations," said Fast. "That could have a big impact on whether they quickly fade away or stick around for good."</i><br />
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Talking about oneself is not necessarily the best way to be influential. ...or a War on Talent. Please…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-06-29:502551:Comment:6996112009-06-29T18:21:14.940ZSteve Levyhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Dieselevy
...or a War on Talent. Please.<br />
<p style="text-align: left;"><img alt="" height="800" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1442309346?profile=original" width="600"></img></p>
There are no former Marines, right Josh?<br />
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Please don't confuse self-described personal attacks with dialectic inquiry. Even the most patient person has a limit on how long they can wade through the BS trough. In communities of action, what's the alternative - turn the other cheek and let people "teach" others things that are simply lies, half-truths, or so absurd that even the government wouldn't let them land at Area…
...or a War on Talent. Please.<br />
<p style="text-align: left;"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1442309346?profile=original" alt="" width="600" height="800"/></p>
There are no former Marines, right Josh?<br />
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Please don't confuse self-described personal attacks with dialectic inquiry. Even the most patient person has a limit on how long they can wade through the BS trough. In communities of action, what's the alternative - turn the other cheek and let people "teach" others things that are simply lies, half-truths, or so absurd that even the government wouldn't let them land at Area 51?<br />
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Perhaps we might want to start an experimental period where <b>@opinion</b> precedes one's opinion and <b>@fact</b> facts. Might get even more interesting.<br />
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@Delaney - Did you include yourself in the group of 25-30 people? ;) JD.. I was not replying to "t…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-06-29:502551:Comment:6994632009-06-29T15:47:52.345ZJim Cantohttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/jimcanto
JD.. I was not replying to "those" posts... I was replying to Rayanne's post about "community" and "engagement." I was compelled to chime in because "how" we engage is an "engaging" topic to me. I find that topic to be of high-value. That's just how my taste-buds work. I was not speaking to any detail of any other conversation or to, or about, any particular participant of "those" other posts. I don't even know who was involved.<br />
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- Jim<br />
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<cite>Slouch said:…</cite>
JD.. I was not replying to "those" posts... I was replying to Rayanne's post about "community" and "engagement." I was compelled to chime in because "how" we engage is an "engaging" topic to me. I find that topic to be of high-value. That's just how my taste-buds work. I was not speaking to any detail of any other conversation or to, or about, any particular participant of "those" other posts. I don't even know who was involved.<br />
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- Jim<br />
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<cite>Slouch said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/challenge-my-ideal-cmon-i?id=502551%3ATopic%3A697820&page=2#502551Comment698258"><div>Jim, you should read them before you comment and agree to what you are agreeing to.<br/> <br/>
<cite>Jim - medXcentral said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/challenge-my-ideal-cmon-i#502551Comment698080"><div>"Conflict may be good for a community...", but I'm in Pam's camp on this one; "There's a fine line though between a vibrant and stimulating exchange of ideas..." and... well... War [my choice of words.]<br/> <br/> Sure.. I agree with Heather when she says; "If you are going to raise a controversial issue and/or take a strong position on almost anything, you cannot expect others to always agree or approve." [IMPO; Expecting everyone to "agree" or "approve" is a recipe for failure in communication.]<br/>
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I don't have any trouble taking a strong stance on any topic I choose. And, I don't expect everyone to agree or approve. I absolutely love "a vibrant and stimulating exchange of ideas." But, if you choose to slit my throat, well, that's no longer debate and exchange with a mutually beneficial purpose. That is war. And THAT is drastically different. IMPO; In debate, we are collaborators. In war, we are opponents. That changes my approach and intent.<br/>
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I have not read either of the two posts referenced by Rayanne. And, now that I hear what's going on in there, I will not waste my time (regardless of what the content is.) Might I miss a gem? Yep. But, I will avoid the disgusting feeling I get when I see people slitting each other's throats. That usually detracts from the "message" I would have taken away anyhow.<br/>
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Coincidentally, I saw a quote this morning which hits the nail on the head... so I'll close my comment with that quote: <b>"Bring your opponent to his senses, not to his knees," - William Ury</b></div>
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</blockquote> Karen, Steve knows what I mea…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-06-26:502551:Comment:6983102009-06-26T20:50:46.218ZSlouchhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Slouch
Karen, Steve knows what I mean. If he needs clarification about how I am saying that the numbers he is providing are wrong, I am more than happy to explain it.<br />
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Karen, I don't know what you are talking about with respect to who is right and what point I proved without knowing it and who is wrong so I am going to take you up on your offer and take this offline and pick up the phone and call you because I need some clarification but I need your number. can you send it to me via a message here on…
Karen, Steve knows what I mean. If he needs clarification about how I am saying that the numbers he is providing are wrong, I am more than happy to explain it.<br />
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Karen, I don't know what you are talking about with respect to who is right and what point I proved without knowing it and who is wrong so I am going to take you up on your offer and take this offline and pick up the phone and call you because I need some clarification but I need your number. can you send it to me via a message here on recruitingblogs.com. thanks or you can use recruitingblogs@gmail.com<br />
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Thanks<br />
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<cite>KarenM said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/challenge-my-ideal-cmon-i?page=2&commentId=502551%3AComment%3A698306&x=1#502551Comment698306"><div>Slouch<br/> You do realize that you told Steve that he was "wrong on all accounts?" -
I don't know if you realized this but you just proved Steve's point.. actually not just Steve's but pretty much everyone else - Rayanne, Me, Jim, Pam..<br />
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Slouch, one doesn't have to read <b><i>Those</i></b> specific posts to agree with what we are discussing here on this site. you can pretty much pick almost any number of them. As Josh said, it isn't a poor me situation, nor victim hood.. Straight up, it get's pretty petty around here sometimes with the personal agendas.<br />
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<cite>Slouch said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/challenge-my-ideal-cmon-i?id=502551%3ATopic%3A697820&page=2#502551Comment698255"><div>Steve, you are wrong on all accounts. If you need me to explain it I will but think about what you are saying. I hope this does not resemble a knifing to anyone here.<br/> <br/> <cite>Steve Delaney said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/challenge-my-ideal-cmon-i#502551Comment698183"><div>Seems to me that RBC has a membership of over 17,000 with an "active" blogging community of perhaps 30 people - 25 almost always agree with each other, swap kudos and accolades, and generally get along - the other 5 (aprox.) tend to butt heads and end up on the bottom or a massive pile of demeaning comments.<br/> <br/> That suggests to me that the majority of some 16,970 people are chosing not to take part in this community.</div>
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</blockquote> Online 'community' means diff…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-06-26:502551:Comment:6982632009-06-26T20:18:24.485ZJohn Sumserhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/JohnSumser
Online 'community' means different things to different people. For some, it's a form of entertainment. For others, it's a source of news and opinion. Still others want a water cooler for small talk. I know people who simply use online forums for data collection and marketing. Some people build their brands while others wish they had.<br />
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I imagine you could create a list of a dozen different ways that people use 'community'. No one formulation covers all of the needs. Most generalizations fail to…
Online 'community' means different things to different people. For some, it's a form of entertainment. For others, it's a source of news and opinion. Still others want a water cooler for small talk. I know people who simply use online forums for data collection and marketing. Some people build their brands while others wish they had.<br />
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I imagine you could create a list of a dozen different ways that people use 'community'. No one formulation covers all of the needs. Most generalizations fail to account for all of the stakeholders.<br />
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I know that lots of people really enjoy the brawls. While I'm not one of them, I understand that they are an important piece of community life. I'm not sure that I agree about their central importance. I just ignore them for the most part. They meet the needs of the people who participate in them.<br />
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I chuckle when the brawlers try to define the rules of engagement while they poke each other, pot calling the kettle black and all that. You know that it's going to get heated when the argument shifts from a topic to the meta-topic....the way we are arguing.<br />
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Predictably, people begin to comment without reading the material. That's how you can tell when the brawl has become a rumble.<br />
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The structure of this particular community makes it very easy to ignore the things you don't like. This gives plenty of time to enjoy the things that you do like. As far as I can tell, there's no regulation or technical implementation that forces anyone to do anything except register if you want to join in.<br />
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That's what I like best. Our lovely little community has a place for the people who need to be right, the people who need to enforce niceness, the people who want a dose of victimization, the people who want to do research and the rest of the dozen different ways this thing gets used..<br />
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That means that the experience you have here is the one you create. It means that there is no such thing as a shared experience here. Rather, we see pieces of the whole. Pam, I love when you stop by…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-06-26:502551:Comment:6982612009-06-26T20:01:42.390ZSlouchhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Slouch
Pam, I love when you stop by because you always add valuable insight and opinions on making placements. If it is once a month or once a year of if we are all lucky and if is more, like I said, we are all lucky. I was telling Jerry Albright yesterday that you get it because you don't follow me on twitter and I told Jerry, It's a sign of someone who wants to spend their time wisely. I know it makes me sound like maybe i may be waste of time but you know what I mean.<br />
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<cite>pam claughton…</cite>
Pam, I love when you stop by because you always add valuable insight and opinions on making placements. If it is once a month or once a year of if we are all lucky and if is more, like I said, we are all lucky. I was telling Jerry Albright yesterday that you get it because you don't follow me on twitter and I told Jerry, It's a sign of someone who wants to spend their time wisely. I know it makes me sound like maybe i may be waste of time but you know what I mean.<br />
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<cite>pam claughton said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/challenge-my-ideal-cmon-i#502551Comment697893"><div>There's a fine line though between a vibrant and stimulating exchange of ideas, which I'd welcome, but too often it seems that these threads get ugly, becoming more like personal attacks on people with different opinions which is a huge turn off for me, and as a result I'm finding myself feeling less inclined to participate. I think it's also partly because I'm checking in less often because work has been busier, and it's downright depressing to wade through a multi-page thread full of these less than respectful exchanges. I wish people could be a little nicer, focus on the issue being discussed instead of the person.</div>
</blockquote> Karen, you should tell jim to…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-06-26:502551:Comment:6982602009-06-26T19:57:36.247ZSlouchhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Slouch
Karen, you should tell jim to read those posts before you agree that you agree with him.<br />
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<cite>KarenM said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/challenge-my-ideal-cmon-i#502551Comment698166"><div>Jim<br></br> AWESOME Post!<br></br> <br></br>
Claudia, thanks for acknowledgment.. One thing I may be accused of is definitely being long winded, and yes very passionate, but for sure one can never accuse me of personal attacks.. But, it was indeed very difficult to stay gracious…</div>
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Karen, you should tell jim to read those posts before you agree that you agree with him.<br />
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<cite>KarenM said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/challenge-my-ideal-cmon-i#502551Comment698166"><div>Jim<br/> AWESOME Post!<br/>
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Claudia, thanks for acknowledgment.. One thing I may be accused of is definitely being long winded, and yes very passionate, but for sure one can never accuse me of personal attacks.. But, it was indeed very difficult to stay gracious after much of what was said about me on the personal level. It took a lot of tongue biting, and my tongue is very sore!<br/>
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Heather, as an attorney, I am positive you can define the difference between personal <i>subjective</i> attacks which focuses on the Messenger, rather than on the message, even one based upon opinion that is strongly contrary to yours..<br/>
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When some take the opinions from a very small and select few and very influential yes men, what ends up is that these individuals believe that these select few have all the "right" answers.. and any disagreement with them ends up creating a very sterile atmosphere. The poison tends to grow like cancer, but one doesn't realize that it ultimately will become very toxic, creating dissension and sapping the ideology of community.<br/>
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The problem is, that the small group of people don't realize that their views may not be shared by everyone.. especially when they believe fear is acceptance of their beliefs<br/>
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Simply put, when it get's ugly, people stay away, and there really is no need for ugly</div>
</blockquote> Jim, you should read them bef…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-06-26:502551:Comment:6982582009-06-26T19:56:53.050ZSlouchhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Slouch
Jim, you should read them before you comment and agree to what you are agreeing to.<br />
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<cite>Jim - medXcentral said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/challenge-my-ideal-cmon-i#502551Comment698080"><div>"Conflict may be good for a community...", but I'm in Pam's camp on this one; "There's a fine line though between a vibrant and stimulating exchange of ideas..." and... well... War [my choice of words.]<br></br> <br></br> Sure.. I agree with Heather when she says; "If…</div>
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Jim, you should read them before you comment and agree to what you are agreeing to.<br />
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<cite>Jim - medXcentral said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/challenge-my-ideal-cmon-i#502551Comment698080"><div>"Conflict may be good for a community...", but I'm in Pam's camp on this one; "There's a fine line though between a vibrant and stimulating exchange of ideas..." and... well... War [my choice of words.]<br/> <br/>
Sure.. I agree with Heather when she says; "If you are going to raise a controversial issue and/or take a strong position on almost anything, you cannot expect others to always agree or approve." [IMPO; Expecting everyone to "agree" or "approve" is a recipe for failure in communication.]<br/>
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I don't have any trouble taking a strong stance on any topic I choose. And, I don't expect everyone to agree or approve. I absolutely love "a vibrant and stimulating exchange of ideas." But, if you choose to slit my throat, well, that's no longer debate and exchange with a mutually beneficial purpose. That is war. And THAT is drastically different. IMPO; In debate, we are collaborators. In war, we are opponents. That changes my approach and intent.<br/>
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I have not read either of the two posts referenced by Rayanne. And, now that I hear what's going on in there, I will not waste my time (regardless of what the content is.) Might I miss a gem? Yep. But, I will avoid the disgusting feeling I get when I see people slitting each other's throats. That usually detracts from the "message" I would have taken away anyhow.<br/>
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Coincidentally, I saw a quote this morning which hits the nail on the head... so I'll close my comment with that quote: <b>"Bring your opponent to his senses, not to his knees," - William Ury</b></div>
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