Digging Into RecruitingBlogs.com v2.10: Sourcing Dead, Horse Lives - RecruitingBlogs2024-03-29T14:49:22Zhttps://recruitingblogs.com/forum/topics/digging-into-15?commentId=502551%3AComment%3A590958&feed=yes&xn_auth=noOK - There are two things I a…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-20:502551:Comment:5976082009-03-20T19:39:36.058ZMike Mayeuxhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/MikeMayeux
OK - There are two things I avoid - I don't Twitter and I don't Blog. I'm forced to break that rule today after all the calls and emails about the thread.<br />
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Disclaimer - I am an RPO provider. Third party provider of enterprise recruiting solutions. I am not a head hunter nor am I a corporate recruiter. So - just to make sure you know where I am coming from.<br />
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Bill? Please... Those recruiters who won't leave their cubicles are the people that are putting you out of business, one happy customer at…
OK - There are two things I avoid - I don't Twitter and I don't Blog. I'm forced to break that rule today after all the calls and emails about the thread.<br />
<br />
Disclaimer - I am an RPO provider. Third party provider of enterprise recruiting solutions. I am not a head hunter nor am I a corporate recruiter. So - just to make sure you know where I am coming from.<br />
<br />
Bill? Please... Those recruiters who won't leave their cubicles are the people that are putting you out of business, one happy customer at a time. They are the ones who forced us to really rethink this business. If there was a model to follow today, it is corporate recruiters. Over that past 15 years, corporate recruiters have redefined everything about our business ecosystem. They bought the better technologies, hired up the food chain, built huge advertising and branding platforms, built huge private talent communities (some in the millions), positioned their companies as employers of choice, reduced the time to fill, increased the quality and drastically reduced the cost to fill the job.<br />
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How about you Bill, and what about the owners of your firm. In comparison to the real recruiters out there, have you done these things? I am sure you have, but I am asking. Here is a little test to take:<br />
* When you publish an opportunity online, do you brand your client?<br />
* Over the past 15 years, has your firm hired up or down - younger or more experienced - more educated or less?<br />
* Are you hitting the open market hard with postings with every opening as well as doing the tactical recruiting and networking?<br />
* How about your numbers? Are you faster now? How about your quality? How do you measure that? Here is the killer... If your fees are tied to salaries and salaries have gone up year over year in the past 15 years are you surprised that the very customers you serve only call you and every other head hunter they know with just the few very difficult requisitions. How does that feel? I forgot.<br />
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One last thing about fall offs. First of all, these are questions we can answer very clearly as we measure everything. One of our customers hires over 1000 people a year through us. We recruit on 62 position titles. In 1 of the 62 titles, we reduced attrition from 41% to 9% with a total ROI of $12,000,000 . Yip fall offs are a real problem.<br />
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We would love to take credit for changing this industry Bill, truth be told, it was our customers that made us do it.<br />
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<cite>Bill Ward said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.recruitingblogs.com/forum/topics/digging-into-15#502551Comment589338"><div>Novotus? Please. How is outsourcing your recruiting function via an RPO considered "strategic" or groundbreaking John? The next big frontier you mention is the same frontier recruiters and HR have been trying get to forever. It's pretty simple (if you're motivated and willing to put in the work), make your role less transactional by knowing the business as well as the executives you support. That means getting up from your cubicle (if you're internal) and going out and talking to people in your organization about what keeps them up at night. Take away their pain and suddenly you are elevated to a whole new level in their eyes. I came up with a simple acronym that has served me well LCLVD (Listen, Challenge, Listen, Validate, Deliver) That's the only way you will be viewed as a peer/partner and not an order taker. At the end of the day, there will always be a low cost provider that can provide short term cost containment. I'd be curious to see how many fall offs within the first year RPOs like Novotus and others have. Hmmm....all of the sudden that bleeding edge RPO solution doesn't have that rosy fragrance.</div>
</blockquote> Maureen Sharib said:Judy, Tha…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-16:502551:Comment:5920072009-03-16T20:37:59.321ZJudy goldenhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Judygolden
<cite>Maureen Sharib said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.recruitingblogs.com/forum/topics/digging-into-15?page=2&commentId=502551%3AComment%3A591039&x=1#502551Comment591039"><div>Judy,<br></br> Thanks for posting the (only-of-its'-kind!) MagicMethod Phone Sourcing Quiz but alas, you posted a snippet from the online quiz-most of it w/out answers. <a href="http://magicmethod.ning.com/profiles/blogs/magicmethod-telephone-sourcing">Here</a>'s the full quiz <b>WITH</b> answers - be careful…</div>
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<cite>Maureen Sharib said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.recruitingblogs.com/forum/topics/digging-into-15?page=2&commentId=502551%3AComment%3A591039&x=1#502551Comment591039"><div>Judy,<br/> Thanks for posting the (only-of-its'-kind!) MagicMethod Phone Sourcing Quiz but alas, you posted a snippet from the online quiz-most of it w/out answers. <a href="http://magicmethod.ning.com/profiles/blogs/magicmethod-telephone-sourcing">Here</a>'s the full quiz <b>WITH</b> answers - be careful not to misinterpret some of the "answers" posted in the comments (at the bottom) section by a few others who took the test (some of which are wrong, IMO).<br/>
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If you look <i>carefully</i>, Judy, I think you'll see where you may have misunderstood the points of some of the questions. Thanks for your interest in the subject of <a href="http://www.techtrak.com">telephone names sourcing</a> Judy. I'm still interested in hearing your answers to the questions I asked above.<br/>
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If any of you have an interest in telephone names souricng - I hope you'll take the quiz!</div>
</blockquote> thank you I did not have the…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-16:502551:Comment:5910832009-03-16T13:45:31.226ZJudy goldenhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Judygolden
thank you I did not have the answers to all the questions in the Quiz<br />
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J
thank you I did not have the answers to all the questions in the Quiz<br />
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J Judy,
Thanks for posting the…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-16:502551:Comment:5910392009-03-16T13:05:26.538ZMaureen Sharibhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/MaureenSharib
Judy,<br />
Thanks for posting the (only-of-its'-kind!) MagicMethod Phone Sourcing Quiz but alas, you posted a snippet from the online quiz-most of it w/out answers. <a href="http://magicmethod.ning.com/profiles/blogs/magicmethod-telephone-sourcing">Here</a>'s the full quiz <b>WITH</b> answers - be careful not to misinterpret some of the "answers" posted in the comments (at the bottom) section by a few others who took the test (some of which are wrong, IMO).<br />
<br />
If you look <i>carefully</i>, Judy, I…
Judy,<br />
Thanks for posting the (only-of-its'-kind!) MagicMethod Phone Sourcing Quiz but alas, you posted a snippet from the online quiz-most of it w/out answers. <a href="http://magicmethod.ning.com/profiles/blogs/magicmethod-telephone-sourcing">Here</a>'s the full quiz <b>WITH</b> answers - be careful not to misinterpret some of the "answers" posted in the comments (at the bottom) section by a few others who took the test (some of which are wrong, IMO).<br />
<br />
If you look <i>carefully</i>, Judy, I think you'll see where you may have misunderstood the points of some of the questions. Thanks for your interest in the subject of <a href="http://www.techtrak.com">telephone names sourcing</a> Judy. I'm still interested in hearing your answers to the questions I asked above.<br />
<br />
If any of you have an interest in telephone names souricng - I hope you'll take the quiz! Its all here
its never easy n…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-16:502551:Comment:5910222009-03-16T12:45:22.406ZJudy goldenhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Judygolden
Its all here<br />
its never easy nor simple to step back and evaluate what we do based on different criteria than what we used to set up what we do..<br />
<br />
J
Its all here<br />
its never easy nor simple to step back and evaluate what we do based on different criteria than what we used to set up what we do..<br />
<br />
J Judy, I asked the following q…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-16:502551:Comment:5909582009-03-16T11:53:37.838ZMaureen Sharibhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/MaureenSharib
Judy, I asked the following questions regarding your remarks over in that "sourcing is dead" string and maybe I missed your response - the string became pretty convoluted and I apologize in advance if I did miss it! Because your remarks here seem to again reference the concepts you posited over there, I ask again:<br />
<br />
Judy, I am really, really fascinated by your thought process and would like to hear you expand upon the following:<br />
<i>I am Judy and I doubt that you want to hear my thoughts on…</i>
Judy, I asked the following questions regarding your remarks over in that "sourcing is dead" string and maybe I missed your response - the string became pretty convoluted and I apologize in advance if I did miss it! Because your remarks here seem to again reference the concepts you posited over there, I ask again:<br />
<br />
Judy, I am really, really fascinated by your thought process and would like to hear you expand upon the following:<br />
<i>I am Judy and I doubt that you want to hear my thoughts on this</i><br />
I do - I absolutley do, Judy!<br />
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<i>cause you will then need to reconsider the whole package you put together.</i><br />
We'll see.<br />
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<i>The whole change in Recruiting came about when a few people got an idea to make a lot of money by redefining the space and in redefining it the occupants lacked the skills for that redefined space so they had to take trainings and classes and learn lots of tricks to do what they had done without any tricks.</i><br />
Isn't this what's normally referred to as progress, Judy?<br />
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<i>Then a whole new group of people came into the space that might not have come into the older space.</i><br />
There are always new waters flowing into every stream, Judy. That's the natural way of things, isn't it?<br />
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<i>Its really fascinating when you think on it how someone or some movement can wipe out what exists redefine it and set up requirements that have to be learned taught for a fee.</i><br />
I think it depends on what your definition of "fee" is. If it includes long, hard hours of head-banging learning, Judy, then I would agree.<br />
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<i>This can only happen in a field where there are no standards guidelines</i><br />
Judy, what would you suggest to correct this injustice?<br />
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And then you go and further intrigue me with your answer to my question about what “tricks” you’re referring to. You say:<br />
<i>Tricks are ways to get around someone when you want something from them and you dont know how to get it honestly in a straightforward way. You call John whos a reference for Jack and Jack gave you his information for a reference Only. then you try to get names from John and to recruit John and the reference check is not the point of the call its just a stepping stone</i><br />
Judy, can you explain some more? The technique you reference is one that I think some recruiters use routinely as a networking tool to find other people (personally I don't see horrid travesty here - as long as Jack really is being considered - I see this more of a culling technique that brings forth a healthier species) but it's not really one used by sourcers as sourcers aren't usually getting all that cozy with their "targets"; talking to them in a "reference check" capacity to get names of others. There are other (honest and straightforward) ways that sourcers use.<br />
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PostScript: I hope you'll also call in/stop by, Judy, on Recruiting Animal's Radio Show on Wednesday (March 4) at noon EST -I just know he's gonna rip into this "sourcing is dead" subject! Call in: 646 652 2754<br />
I'd be fascinated to hear your comments on the show and I really appreciate your forthrightness! Permalink Reply by Judy golde…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-15:502551:Comment:5906112009-03-15T18:14:34.436ZJudy goldenhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Judygolden
Permalink Reply by Judy golden 1 day ago<br />
Delete Are you aware of what is going on in this country?<br />
First some recruiters sought to make a mint by redefining Recruiting and taking it away from successful recruiters who would not engage in the new model nicely called cybersleuthing or sourcing yet in the back room it was really is really just plain Hacking<br />
So that was done and some key people profited hugely<br />
Now in this time where there are mostly companies laying people off or reducing work…
Permalink Reply by Judy golden 1 day ago<br />
Delete Are you aware of what is going on in this country?<br />
First some recruiters sought to make a mint by redefining Recruiting and taking it away from successful recruiters who would not engage in the new model nicely called cybersleuthing or sourcing yet in the back room it was really is really just plain Hacking<br />
So that was done and some key people profited hugely<br />
Now in this time where there are mostly companies laying people off or reducing work hours or introducing furloughs - there is a new conversation that says Forget what we said about recruiting = sourcing cause sourcing is dead<br />
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What I want to know is in all of this where is the integrity?<br />
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this was my message i didnt say i was upset frustrated or angry<br />
and i didnt take offers of help as insult<br />
lets move on<br />
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im ok just made some comments on how recruiting changed<br />
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j I thank you for your thoughts…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-15:502551:Comment:5905052009-03-15T14:59:36.648ZJudy goldenhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Judygolden
I thank you for your thoughts and I know you all value your approach and your boolean strings. Im not saying anymore and I think its funny that Im seen as someone who is in grave need of help and a dinosaur who can barely turn on her computer. Poor me! Thats all for now signing off on one of my four computers. Judy<br />
<a href="http://www.meetup.com/Unemployed-Jobhunter-Meeters/">http://www.meetup.com/Unemployed-Jobhunter-Meeters/</a>
I thank you for your thoughts and I know you all value your approach and your boolean strings. Im not saying anymore and I think its funny that Im seen as someone who is in grave need of help and a dinosaur who can barely turn on her computer. Poor me! Thats all for now signing off on one of my four computers. Judy<br />
<a href="http://www.meetup.com/Unemployed-Jobhunter-Meeters/">http://www.meetup.com/Unemployed-Jobhunter-Meeters/</a> When faced with anyone who de…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-14:502551:Comment:5901362009-03-14T19:36:29.386ZSteve Levyhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Dieselevy
When faced with anyone who denigrates progress, I'm always reminded of this wonderful oration by the Henry Drummond character in <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053946/">Inherit the Wind</a> about the Scopes teaching-of-evolution trial:<br />
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<i>Yes, there is something holy to me! The power of the individual human mind. In a child's power to master the multiplication table there is more sanctity than in all your shouted "Amens!," "Holy, Holies!" and "Hosannahs!"<br />
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An idea is a greater monument…</i>
When faced with anyone who denigrates progress, I'm always reminded of this wonderful oration by the Henry Drummond character in <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053946/">Inherit the Wind</a> about the Scopes teaching-of-evolution trial:<br />
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<i>Yes, there is something holy to me! The power of the individual human mind. In a child's power to master the multiplication table there is more sanctity than in all your shouted "Amens!," "Holy, Holies!" and "Hosannahs!"<br />
<br />
An idea is a greater monument than a cathedral. And the advance of man's knowledge is more of a miracle than any sticks turned to snakes, or the parting of waters.<br />
<br />
But are we now to halt the march of progress because Mr. Brady frightens us with a fable? (to the jury)<br />
<br />
Gentlemen, progress has never been a bargain. You've got to pay for it. Sometimes I think there's a man behind a counter who says, "All right, you can have a telephone; but you'll have to give up privacy, the charm of distance. Madam, you may vote; but at a price; you lose the right to retreat behind a powder puff or a petticoat. Mister, you may conquer the air; but the birds will lose their wonder, and the clouds will smell of gasoline!" \<br />
<br />
Darwin moved us forward to a hilltop, where we could look back and see the way from which we came. But for this view, this insight, this knowledge, we must abandon our faith in the pleasant poetry of Genesis.</i><br />
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Judy, if you want to learn there are people here who will gladly teach you. Why don't you ask us? Well said.
Sandra McCartt sa…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-14:502551:Comment:5900912009-03-14T18:20:51.272ZAmitai Givertzhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/Recruitomatic
Well said.<br />
<br />
<cite>Sandra McCartt said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.recruitingblogs.com/forum/topics/digging-into-15?page=1&commentId=502551%3AComment%3A590041&x=1#502551Comment590041"><div>Judy,<br></br> Setting up a string to find information that is posted by someone on the internet is not hacking. It's like using the Dewey Decimal system to find a book at the library. It's not a trick.<br></br> <br></br>
I have read several of your postings and it seems like you are having a hard time…</div>
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Well said.<br />
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<cite>Sandra McCartt said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.recruitingblogs.com/forum/topics/digging-into-15?page=1&commentId=502551%3AComment%3A590041&x=1#502551Comment590041"><div>Judy,<br/> Setting up a string to find information that is posted by someone on the internet is not hacking. It's like using the Dewey Decimal system to find a book at the library. It's not a trick.<br/>
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I have read several of your postings and it seems like you are having a hard time being hirable because you are not up to speed on computer searching. There is so much information out there in the public domain Google developed a search engine so we can find what we are looking for without spending weeks. Hacking takes a lot more computer know how than most recruiters ever will have. I hate to see anyone become bitter by refusing to learn something that is new, then shoot themselves in the foot by calling it unethical. As the world changes we have to change with it or become lost in the dust of progress.<br/>
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If we didn't develop new tools and learn to use them civilization would still be growing food by poking a hole in the ground with a stick to plant a seed. Give yourself a chance, learn something new and make yourself more marketable just as you would tell a candidate to go take a class so they would be up to speed on the latest technology.<br/>
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Think about it, please, instead of calling it witchcraft could it just be something new that you should learn?</div>
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