Respect vs. Transparency - RecruitingBlogs2024-03-28T17:10:28Zhttps://recruitingblogs.com/forum/topics/respect-vs-transparency?commentId=502551%3AComment%3A604248&feed=yes&xn_auth=noAnimal, maybe you are right,…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-27:502551:Comment:6046602009-03-27T12:49:01.483ZBecky Metcalfhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/BeckyMetcalf
Animal, maybe you are right, maybe I've painted myself to look like more of a model citizen than I am (not on purpose, I'm just trying to improve everyday... That's why I'm here...). Really we may just have to agree to disagree here as I just don't understand why you would choose to make a rejection that much harder on a candidate (and you are fooling yourself if you think that they don't feel it) by laying it out so bluntly when it isn't constructive - you may not mind when someone tells you…
Animal, maybe you are right, maybe I've painted myself to look like more of a model citizen than I am (not on purpose, I'm just trying to improve everyday... That's why I'm here...). Really we may just have to agree to disagree here as I just don't understand why you would choose to make a rejection that much harder on a candidate (and you are fooling yourself if you think that they don't feel it) by laying it out so bluntly when it isn't constructive - you may not mind when someone tells you point blank that they just don't like you, I'm not sure everyone else has such thick skin. I'm all for not sugar-coating to keep from providing for false hope, but a little something sweet mixed in isn't hurting anything.<br />
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You call me a cop-out artist, which is exactly what I am trying not to be when I make the call. It would be a cop-out if I made my day easier by sending a rejection letter instead of making these heartfelt personal calls. Maybe I should consider it.<br />
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Thanks everyone - INCLUDING you Animal - for your thoughts here, this discussion has been quite an eye opener. But, I think I'm about done with this one...<br />
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<cite>Recruiting Animal said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/respect-vs-transparency?id=502551%3ATopic%3A603633&page=2#502551Comment604609"><div>Lisa<br/><br/>A. that's not what I really say.<br/><br/>B. You missed the point.<br/><br/>Becky was setting herself up as a model of integrity. But she isn't. She's a cop-out artist just like everybody else.<br/><br/>She makes a courtesy call to the rejected candidate -- and that's just swell. But if a candidate wants to know the ugly details she starts talking about the weather.<br/><br/>It would be more honest to say: "I can't tell you" or "I don't know".<br/><br/>I'm not saying that honesty is always the best policy. But the truth in this discussion would be:<br/><br/>"I don't always tell candidates why they were rejected. But I do call and tell them that they didn't get the job."<br/><br/>It's usually easy to tell them they were rejected if it's a technical issue like lack of a designation. But it's hard to tell them the truth if it's a personality issue.<br/><br/>And Becky - just like everyone else - doesn't tell the truth in those situations.<br/><br/>-------------------------------------------------<br/><cite>Lisa Offutt said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/respect-vs-transparency?x=1&id=502551%3ATopic%3A603633&page=1#502551Comment604125"><div>It seems to me that Becky and Animal are really doing the same thing. When Becky says, "It wasn't a good match" and the candidate asks for more, what they're telling her is that yes, they'd like it shoved down their throat please. Except with Becky's approach, the candidate gets to save a little more face. And assuming they were a decent candidate (or you wouldn't have presented them in the first place), it might be a good thing if they weren't too chagrined to work with you again.</div>
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</blockquote> I am implementing a new polic…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-27:502551:Comment:6046152009-03-27T12:39:12.559ZJerry Albrighthttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/JerryAlbright
I am implementing a new policy as of Q2 '09. I will no longer send candidates who are not going to be offered the position thus eliminating this most unpleasant part of our jobs.<br />
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I only wish I'd come up with this years ago............
I am implementing a new policy as of Q2 '09. I will no longer send candidates who are not going to be offered the position thus eliminating this most unpleasant part of our jobs.<br />
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I only wish I'd come up with this years ago............ Lisa
A. that's not what I re…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-27:502551:Comment:6046092009-03-27T12:32:10.988ZRecruiting Animalhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/canadianheadhunter
Lisa<br />
<br />
A. that's not what I really say.<br />
<br />
B. You missed the point.<br />
<br />
Becky was setting herself up as a model of integrity. But she isn't. She's a cop-out artist just like everybody else.<br />
<br />
She makes a courtesy call to the rejected candidate -- and that's just swell. But if a candidate wants to know the ugly details she starts talking about the weather.<br />
<br />
It would be more honest to say: "I can't tell you" or "I don't know".<br />
<br />
I'm not saying that honesty is always the best policy. But the truth in this…
Lisa<br />
<br />
A. that's not what I really say.<br />
<br />
B. You missed the point.<br />
<br />
Becky was setting herself up as a model of integrity. But she isn't. She's a cop-out artist just like everybody else.<br />
<br />
She makes a courtesy call to the rejected candidate -- and that's just swell. But if a candidate wants to know the ugly details she starts talking about the weather.<br />
<br />
It would be more honest to say: "I can't tell you" or "I don't know".<br />
<br />
I'm not saying that honesty is always the best policy. But the truth in this discussion would be:<br />
<br />
"I don't always tell candidates why they were rejected. But I do call and tell them that they didn't get the job."<br />
<br />
It's usually easy to tell them they were rejected if it's a technical issue like lack of a designation. But it's hard to tell them the truth if it's a personality issue.<br />
<br />
And Becky - just like everyone else - doesn't tell the truth in those situations.<br />
<br />
-------------------------------------------------<br />
<cite>Lisa Offutt said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/respect-vs-transparency?x=1&id=502551%3ATopic%3A603633&page=1#502551Comment604125"><div>It seems to me that Becky and Animal are really doing the same thing. When Becky says, "It wasn't a good match" and the candidate asks for more, what they're telling her is that yes, they'd like it shoved down their throat please. Except with Becky's approach, the candidate gets to save a little more face. And assuming they were a decent candidate (or you wouldn't have presented them in the first place), it might be a good thing if they weren't too chagrined to work with you again.</div>
</blockquote> Karen, it should be noted her…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-27:502551:Comment:6043812009-03-27T02:56:48.938ZClaudia Fausthttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/ClaudiaFaust
Karen, it should be noted here that you are referring to US law under the Fair Credit Reporting Act, and that clearly laws vary internationally (Dan is in Australia). Splitting hairs perhaps, but wanted to be clear.<br />
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<cite>KarenM / Hirecentrix.com said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/respect-vs-transparency?x=1%23502551Comment604276&id=502551%3ATopic%3A603633&page=2#502551Comment604276"><div>... this comes down to making an Adverse Employment…</div>
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Karen, it should be noted here that you are referring to US law under the Fair Credit Reporting Act, and that clearly laws vary internationally (Dan is in Australia). Splitting hairs perhaps, but wanted to be clear.<br />
<br />
<br />
<cite>KarenM / Hirecentrix.com said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/respect-vs-transparency?x=1%23502551Comment604276&id=502551%3ATopic%3A603633&page=2#502551Comment604276"><div>... this comes down to making an Adverse Employment Decision based upon their Character Reference.</div>
</blockquote> Ohhhh Karen! Maybe you can he…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-26:502551:Comment:6042482009-03-26T22:15:18.491ZBecky Metcalfhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/BeckyMetcalf
Ohhhh Karen! Maybe you can help our good friend Dan out on this one?<br />
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<cite>Dan Nuroo said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/respect-vs-transparency?page=1&commentId=502551%3AComment%3A604238&x=1%23502551Comment604238#502551Comment604238"><div>So what do you tell someone who say, got a bad reference? (formal or informal) or who's details were seen by someone in the company who recognised them from a previous job and thought, whilst good on paper were…</div>
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Ohhhh Karen! Maybe you can help our good friend Dan out on this one?<br />
<br />
<br />
<cite>Dan Nuroo said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/respect-vs-transparency?page=1&commentId=502551%3AComment%3A604238&x=1%23502551Comment604238#502551Comment604238"><div>So what do you tell someone who say, got a bad reference? (formal or informal) or who's details were seen by someone in the company who recognised them from a previous job and thought, whilst good on paper were decidedly average when on the job?</div>
</blockquote> So what do you tell someone w…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-26:502551:Comment:6042382009-03-26T22:08:30.173ZDan Nuroohttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/DanNuroo
So what do you tell someone who say, got a bad reference? (formal or informal) or who's details were seen by someone in the company who recognised them from a previous job and thought, whilst good on paper were decidedly average when on the job?
So what do you tell someone who say, got a bad reference? (formal or informal) or who's details were seen by someone in the company who recognised them from a previous job and thought, whilst good on paper were decidedly average when on the job? Lisa - Thank you!
Lisa Offut…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-26:502551:Comment:6041612009-03-26T21:28:15.176ZBecky Metcalfhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/BeckyMetcalf
Lisa - Thank you!<br />
<br />
<cite>Lisa Offutt said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/respect-vs-transparency?page=1&commentId=502551%3AComment%3A604125&x=1%23502551Comment604125#502551Comment604125"><div>It seems to me that Becky and Animal are really doing the same thing. When Becky says, "It wasn't a good match" and the candidate asks for more, what they're telling her is that yes, they'd like it shoved down their throat please. Except with Becky's approach,…</div>
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Lisa - Thank you!<br />
<br />
<cite>Lisa Offutt said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://recruitingblogs.ning.com/forum/topics/respect-vs-transparency?page=1&commentId=502551%3AComment%3A604125&x=1%23502551Comment604125#502551Comment604125"><div>It seems to me that Becky and Animal are really doing the same thing. When Becky says, "It wasn't a good match" and the candidate asks for more, what they're telling her is that yes, they'd like it shoved down their throat please. Except with Becky's approach, the candidate gets to save a little more face. And assuming they were a decent candidate (or you wouldn't have presented them in the first place), it might be a good thing if they weren't too chagrined to work with you again.</div>
</blockquote> It seems to me that Becky and…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-26:502551:Comment:6041252009-03-26T21:22:15.294ZLisa Offutthttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/LisaOffutt
It seems to me that Becky and Animal are really doing the same thing. When Becky says, "It wasn't a good match" and the candidate asks for more, what they're telling her is that yes, they'd like it shoved down their throat please. Except with Becky's approach, the candidate gets to save a little more face. And assuming they were a decent candidate (or you wouldn't have presented them in the first place), it might be a good thing if they weren't too chagrined to work with you again.
It seems to me that Becky and Animal are really doing the same thing. When Becky says, "It wasn't a good match" and the candidate asks for more, what they're telling her is that yes, they'd like it shoved down their throat please. Except with Becky's approach, the candidate gets to save a little more face. And assuming they were a decent candidate (or you wouldn't have presented them in the first place), it might be a good thing if they weren't too chagrined to work with you again. Finesse and nuance is very he…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-26:502551:Comment:6040472009-03-26T20:35:54.718Zlisa rokusekhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/lisarokusek
Finesse and nuance is very helpful in these situations as not everything is clear cut. I agree with Animal's approach.<br />
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Not everyone wants to know how that dress actually makes them look.
Finesse and nuance is very helpful in these situations as not everything is clear cut. I agree with Animal's approach.<br />
<br />
Not everyone wants to know how that dress actually makes them look. Personally, I really don't li…tag:recruitingblogs.com,2009-03-26:502551:Comment:6040412009-03-26T20:31:49.725ZJoshua Letourneauhttps://recruitingblogs.com/profile/JoshuaLetourneau
Personally, I really don't like being the bringer of bad news. It's part of our job, but I really don't like it.<br />
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I would like to think I'm not in the minority in the sense that I prefer to be honest, yet I do try to soften the blow. I feel it is my obligation to provide the candidate with the information that will help them improve their position, however sometimes it's more about the 'how' we provide information than the actual information we provide. A little NLP cocktail, anyone?<br />
<br />
That…
Personally, I really don't like being the bringer of bad news. It's part of our job, but I really don't like it.<br />
<br />
I would like to think I'm not in the minority in the sense that I prefer to be honest, yet I do try to soften the blow. I feel it is my obligation to provide the candidate with the information that will help them improve their position, however sometimes it's more about the 'how' we provide information than the actual information we provide. A little NLP cocktail, anyone?<br />
<br />
That being said, what I observe from many recruiters is that they don't ask for more information about why a candidate was denied. So the conversation normally goes, "Bob, I really don't know why - they just said you're not a match. I'm sorry."<br />
<br />
Ultimately, I would want my recruiter (if I was a candidate) to be honest with me, but I wouldn't want them to drop a bowling ball on my head. It's also worth mentioning that sometimes (actually, 'manytimes'), a candidate is not selected purely because they bring to the surface some latent insecurity in one of the interviewers. When I say this, I mean the 'real' reasons a candidate wasn't selected; the reason that comes out over a drink during Happy Hour.<br />
<br />
And in that regard, let me ask: How many times have you tried to work with a Hiring Manager that was over his/her head, and you knew that you had to present a "C"-performer coupled with a deferential personality if you were to make the right 'fit'? Personally, I don't like those searches, but there are times when they are truly 'closest to the money'.<br />
<br />
I'm sure many of us have been in this boat before - that's why I laugh when I see the notion of "top talent" all over 99% of search firm's marketing material (and/or in LinkedIn profiles). The truth is that shareholders often want 'top talent' to be employed at the organization (because this increases the probability of strong returns), but where the rubber meets the road, only the best of the best Hiring Managers want to hire top talent. Because I understand this (and many of you here do, too), it's easier for me to level with candidates that the reason they weren't selected might not even have anything to do with them.