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Topic: Midnight Magic Chat Log Sept 6, 2008: wn NOW. ****** Attend the MagicMethod FREE one hour LIVE phone sourcing classroom chats on Tuesdays and Thursdays at noon EST on the MagicMethod network here. ****** Like what you just read? MagicMethod is brimming with information like this and will show you the inside tips and techniques of true telephone names sourcers! Subscribe today here. ****** ****** Maureen I agree, D. Well, that's it for tonight - thanks for coming D! Email your questions! Denyse Diem agree to disagree, I always say! Denyse Diem I mean anyone who doesn’t like what you have to say. It's just your opinion - they dont have to agree! Maureen Oh - yeah, I agree. Me too - sometimes I am so full a' myself! Denyse Diem people tend to have a hard time getting over themselves! including my self at times i must admit! Maureen Who's that? Chat is definitely ginky tonight... Denyse Diem I think if they can't take the direct approach, they need to grow up or get out Denyse Diem yeah - I hope to live in CA for some period in my life. Didn't think I would be traveling like this tho....have to source a new job for my hubbie! LOL! Maureen There are some who don't like what I say (or how I say it) Denyse - as you get more into this community you will find out... Maureen I love Texas! And CA! Maureen That's right there is-when I first started sourcing my two biggest states for customers were CA and TX. Consequently they ARE big states but still I think that says something... Denyse Diem do you get into trouble? LOL! I hadn't heard of any - now I want to find out! LOL! Maureen Dallas is a beautiful city. Maureen In Dallas traffic? A 45 minute commute each way? NO THANKS! Denyse Diem there is so much work right here in Dallas Denyse Diem I agree M - the thing is - I would do it to see what the haps were in the medical world to create a niche for myself in sourcing in that arena - but the cummute is 45 mins each way....no thanks Maureen I don't suffer foolishness well anymore. That's why sometimes I get into "trouble" here on the boards... Maureen I know I sound hard - I am! Maureen Don't be fooled- he coulda' been playing you. The fact that he understands what a sourcer can do for his org leads me to think he may not be so green... Denyse Diem that or stressed....didn't ask me a single question! I led the entire conversation - they sounded to desperate Denyse Diem The recruiter who called me was very green. Maureen Sounds like a grinder. Maureen IF you can phone source you don't need any of that noise... Denyse Diem I've seen this job posted for several months - looks like a grinder Denyse Diem but it sounds like they want me to build their pipeline of candidates... Maureen Be careful - there are some characters surrounding us - some sharpies who understand what value we bring to the table and will try to "lure" you w/ promises... Denyse Diem so they have certain needs for certain specialties - ..yes, that's right...sorry I'm fading Maureen Oh. And pay you a small salary w benefits and then something on the if-come. I see. Denyse Diem opps - the day the doc starts the job Maureen I don't understand... Denyse Diem on site - sorry - they want me to be at their location near dallas. Denyse Diem small salary w/benefits, comission only start the day they start the job Maureen? What do you mean on sight. Maureen How are they offering to pay? Denyse Diem I was just offered a job to source for physicians only. On sight only tho. Maureen I think there are and I also think we're just scratching an itch... Denyse Diem I bet there are many applications for your sourcing that we are just not thinking of. Maureen Yup. Maureen I DID deal with characters. That's a good way of saying it. Denyse Diem no wonder you prefer the telephone! LOL! Maureen No - Mergers and Acquisitions but I could see application for marketing and advertising Denyse Diem bet you had to deal with some real characters Maureen I charged 12% of the sales price as a commission. Denyse Diem M&A = marketing & advertising? Maureen Yes - good way of saying it. Maureen Busienss intellignece (M&A activity) Denyse Diem so you were a broker for small businesses then? is that a good way to look at it? Maureen Sales. Maureen Good question. I have always thought many people could use sourcers. Maureen All types - usually they had gross sales up to $5-10million - occasionally higher... Denyse Diem who else uses sourcers? Denyse Diem do you prefer one to the other? Denyse Diem wow - what type of small business? Maureen When I first started- recruiters - nowadays it's pretty evenly divided. Denyse Diem so I had asked before so being so ruding interrupted...what entities yield the best jobs for you - recruiters? Hr depts? Maureen So THAT'S why my head isn't in it. I could tell some real horror stories... Maureen Me neither... Maureen I sold small businesses for 22 yrs - you think it's hard to make a placement? Try selling a busines to someone nobody will hire - that's WHO buys small businesses many times! Maureen No I only do phone banks when I have a need to penetrate a company for specific names...I don't data mine any longer though when I first started sourcing I spent many nights doing just that because I did not know what I was doing - it was a terrific learning ground for me... Denyse Diem so do you just data mine even if you don't have an immediate need for a name - during the holidays I mean? Maureen I don't want to have to develop relationships with people - the warm and fuzzy thing - I just want in and out - I enjoy the sense of completion a job started and finished in a few days gives me - placing requires months and months sometimes of sitting on pins and needles - who needs that? I'm not into any of that anymore. Denyse Diem here=hear LOL! good lord! Denyse Diem do you ever here of openings since you have good relationships with recruiters? And who are your major customers - recruiters, stand along company with an HR person needing help? WHo are the best folks to target? Denyse Diem but you were at one point? Maureen My head is not there. Denyse Diem what's your personal reason for sticking to the sourcing end? Maureen Doing placements is a whole different ball of wax...my head is not there anymore. Maureen The thing they don't get is that I DON'T WANT TO DO PLACEMENTS. Maureen I have never placed anyone. I get criticized occasionally for not doing so - people tell me I could make so much more money doing placements... Denyse Diem so you never try to place people? Just the names? Can I get an idea of how lucrative this can get as opposed to placing someone with a commission - actually, that may be a topic of discussion at some point Maureen Holidays and holiday weeks = Very valuable time! Maureen I always use holiday time to my advantage - holidays are great -for instance, many people go on vacation in a week that holds a holiday - and some of these will leave VoiceMail messages with valuable information on them when they combine one day of holiday with two weekends and four more days in the week to be away for a total of NINE DAYS with using up only FOUR vacation days! See how that works? So while they're away for those nine days they leave valuable info on their VoiceMails..."I'm on vacation - in my absence call..." Denyse Diem re phone banks - do you usually use holiday time to call into companies Maureen Sharib Yes and No, this isn't the only Magic chat. There are two other chats on the MagicMethod network – Tuesdays and Thursdays at noon EST. Here. Denyse Diem no - the magic chats....this is only the one here right? at midnight I mean? do you have chats elsewhere? Maureen It's an idea...maybe those who read this may want to offer their ideas on the subject... Maureen These chats D? You feel that way about these chats? Denyse Diem I wonder if instead of posting the chats, you just post a summary Maureen No phone banks this weekend. Denyse Diem it's a little frustrating reading through chats with all the banter, etc., I must admit. You have to read through a lot of conversation to get to actual points Maureen ALOT of people feel that way abt recording themselves - and it's even worse in sound - Animal has a hard time getting people to participate ont he Animal show because most people suffer mike fright... I know this to be true because one of my best sourcers comes out of the radio business and she says it's a common fear in broadcasting school... Denyse Diem so let's get to some meat then, shall we? did you call a bunch of phone banks over the weekend or were you too busy with the FL trip? Denyse Diem can't wait! Thanks for always trying to make it better! Maureen It will be much smoother - much easier to read I think. Denyse Diem okay - i'll pose my question/favor in a email to you then if you don't mind. Maureen I am in the process of revamping the delivery of Magic - you will be very pleased with the new format I think. Denyse Diem I hate having my words recorded! It's just a personal thing! lol! Maureen The longer lessons were sent to you in word so you can open, print (or copy) and read away from the 'puter. Maureen Yes. Denyse Diem by the way - is this going to be posted as well? Denyse Diem a lot of folks who can't attend b/c of work might be reading these tho...hard to choose Denyse Diem so don't get mad but last two weeks were a total blur and I still haven't been able to get to opening the first module. I didn’t notice that there was a note that the material could not be copied. I have a question or a favor to ask.... Maureen Many people like to read these chat logs - I am thinking about changing these chats to allow only PEOPLE WHO ATTEND them to be able to experience the chat - in other words - NOT make the logs available to EVERYONE – maybe only to those who attend regularly and registered MagicMethod students. It’s just a thought at this point. I think it would really improve attendance and participation. Maureen The ning chat does that but it does not allow to create a legend - this one will tell you how many are online but I guess Jason forgot to turn that function on when he switched from the ning chat tonight...ning chat tells you WHO is online as well - but it has no legend function... Denyse Diem Last time we were here there was some sort of counter that said how many folks were online and who many admins. Maureen I know what you mean - chat seems "sticky' tonight - is it for you? Maureen Who knows D there may well be...no way of telling... Denyse Diem I wasn't sure I'd have the energy to make it tonight - long day Denyse Diem oh- i misunderstood - I thought you said there were 16 of us here Maureen That's okay. Have you done phone banks since you started attending these classes? Maureen D I can't see who or how many is online so it may be just the two of us... Maureen It's more like a sales approach and for most people - sales is the LAST THING they want to be doing! I think old school recruiting may have attracted more sales types than administrivia types which what recruiting seems to suffer with today in many respects... Denyse Diem yes M -I see your point Denyse Diem Anyone else here want to chime in? you mentioned things we can do on phone banks or at night that would be good to get information in the chat description...anyone here call phone banks at night? Maureen It's a FAR DIFFERENT approach - far scarier for most people to approach someone who the likelihood is (80% or so) that they're NOT LOOKING for a job! In fact many times that's what the truly passive candidate says many times - first thing out of their mouths! Denyse Diem then the questions begin...how did you get my name, etc... Maureen Yes - Lou. Denyse Diem I've heard that name come up a lot - is that lou adler? Maureen Very FAR CRY from "This is so-and-so, we have an open position and we identified you hoping you might have an interest in our open position..." Maureen "This is so-and-so, I have your resume before me..." Maureen yes you have to call the candidate D BUT THINK what that call is like... Maureen BUT the trend makers have taken notice - I see guys like Adler giving it alot of attention and because he gets a pretty high profile (at least on ERE) things are changing... Denyse Diem Maureen the Sourcing Evangelist Maureen It's still very true today. I set out to change that. It's changing but very very slowly. Denyse Diem but if you rely on the boards don't you eventually have to call the candidate??? Maureen It's what got me active - Abt 4 yrs ago I read an article on ERE by Dr. John Sullivan - he said many recruiters and most hiring managers don't know what sourcing is. I was stunned. Denyse Diem who can share - sorry long day= typos Maureen I think old school knows what it is but the last generation (last ten yrs or so) have come up relying on the boards and the Internet and because it's less "pressure" to do things on a keyboard that doesn't push back at you many have never learned the ability to work the phone like it was once necessary - make sense? Anyone else have any ideas? Denyse Diem are there any recruiters here who share? Denyse Diem I think that many dont want to share the commision or don't see how they can increase their revenue with a sourcer Denyse Diem 95% of the recruiters I network with to learn more about the industry are stumped by what I want to do as a sourcer! Maureen Good question D. I DON'T KNOW. Beats the hell out of me. I have my suspicions though... Maureen I suspect. Maybe he can clarify that - he probably has and I wasn't paying attention... Denyse Diem why do you think that most recruiters don't know what sourcing is or rather that sourcing is its own industry Maureen GREAT recruiters can phone source. But, as in all things, few are great. It's one thing that contributes to greatness though, I strongly believe...Bill Vick says - ALL Big Billers use sourcers on the front end! Not sure how it's broken across phone/Internet but I SUSPECT a good number use phone sourcers. Denyse Diem but that was many moons ago Denyse Diem in the past I did Executive Dev. at a large financial institution in NYC and the previous to that some recruiting with Manpower Maureen Then you ARE a phone sourcer! Denyse Diem yes, for my self at this point. Maureen For your own recruiting efforts? Denyse Diem getting back into recruiting that is... Maureen You probably do your own sourcing right? Denyse Diem Denyse Diem interested in getting back into it Denyse Diem I'm taking some liberties I suppose - I will be a telephone sourcer Maureen You also do recruiting? Maureen Denyse - how long have you been a phone sourcer? Denyse Diem you are a motivating teacher! Maureen I'm going to write an article about cultural sourcing -I'm collecting information from anyone who wants to submit any - one subject will be how important it is to understand what time it is where you're calling - Hong Kong is what? 13 hrs ahead of us? Denyse Diem Hello folks, my name is Denyse Diem and I'm a Telephone names sourcer/ Researcher - some recruiting here in good ole Dallas, TX Maureen Denyse - you are really an avid student - you enjoy these chats? Yup, it's 12 Denyse Diem okay - so it's midnight at your part of the world! Maureen Thank you for attending the Saturday night MidnightMagic chat -would you all like to introduce yourselves?…; Added by Maureen Sharib to Phone Sourcing at 1:37am on September 7, 2008

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Comment on: Blog Post '10 Tips From Corporate Recruiters That You'll Ignore Anyway': #8 is a very good point, but job seekers need help in this arena. And I as one who practices the idea of trying to have just one interview process active at a time would appreciate help from recruiters and HR personnel in this regard. When you tell someone they will hear from you in a certain length of time, please contact them, don’t just relegate their emails to the trash bin and ignore them. If they are not in contention for the position let them know. They need to move on to the next application process so they can at least have a chance of finding employment where they would be a better fit. It is only common courtesy. Jean-Louis Carrara • Like so many things, these are helpful communicating rules that will be broken by both sides depending on the people and situations, thank you for posting them. As for the candidates, we have to show energy and motivation, and still not get too attached to the result. With enough motivation (and time), we can always identify and reach the hiring manager..... Will Thomson, • Hi Jimmy, thank you for your response. I 100% agree with your statement. Recruiters absolutely should let candidates know when they aren't selected for a role. Sometimes bad news is hard to hear, but it helps both parties move on. Will Thomson, • Hi Jean-Louis, thank you for your response also! Looking for a job is a full-time job. It is hard not to get attached to the end result. We wouldn't be human if we didn't. I think everyone reading this (including myself) have been disappointed at some point in their lives by not being selected for a role. Hopefully though, this showed some insight inside of a recruiters head and it helps others land their dream job. I just completed my personal website and you can subscribe to weekly updates at www.wthomsonjr.com. Cliff Collard • Much of that advice is a 2-way street. Respect and trust are things that both sides need to build. - If I tell a recruiter that I have not been in a particular role for 3 years and I don't do it anymore, stop emailing me job reqs in that area. - If I list my availablity over then next week, don't try to schedule something in a time I have specifically told you I am not available. You are asking me to disrespect the person who has scheduled a meeting with me in that time block. - If I block out time for you, show up! - If you send me a LinkedIn Connect request, I WILL ask how we know each other if I don't remember meeting you. You can avoid that by gently reminding me in the connect request. - The first time you contact me about an entry level job, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. The second time, I will assume you don't know how to read a resume. Will Thomson, • Cliff, thank you very much for the response. You bring up some very valid points. Unfortunately, in the recruiting industry, there are some recruiters that aren't great. Check out this article. Very interesting and sad to say the least. http://bit.ly/13poQNU I like to think there are more good than bad, but I think a lot of recruiters get generalized. Recruiters should not try to get you into a role that you are not interested or a fit, but there are a lot of recruiters who simply try to fit a round peg in a square hole rather than finding the right opportunity. A candidate wants an opportunity that is interesting, exciting, and builds on your current skill set. I 100% agree with you regarding Linkedin requests. (BTW- I just sent you one because I like your comments). I receive countless requests without a reason and that really bothers me. When I ask "Why", you would be astonished by the number of people who don't have an answer or won't bother to return the e-mail. I am going to respectfully disagree with you about interview times. If you want to interview and if it is a fit, both parties have to be willing to give a little. Sometimes managers schedules are so tight that you may have to rearrange your schedule to interview. We will try to accommodate every way possible. When Amy and I wrote this article, we were really referring to people trying to get into a company, not a recruiter trying to convince someone of joining a company. I can only imagine the frustration of fielding tons of recruiting calls in the high tech industry because you have the word "Java" in your resume. Again, thank you. Will You are right on about my perception of the Recruiting Industry. There are good and bad - experience helps distinguish between them quickly. My comments about interview times were more a general complaint about scheduling, including phone screens. The dialog commonly goes something like: Appointment seeker: We need to meet for an hour. What is your availablity next week? Me: Preferences are Tuesday or Thursday afternoon. Any Morning will work and I can probably reschedule my conflict on Friday. I am not available Monday or Wednesday afternoon. Appointment seeker: Then how about Wednesday at 9am? I am simply amazed that scenario plays out more often than choosing from the 80% of the time I can be available. …; Added by Will Thomson at 4:13pm on April 23, 2013

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