raig Campbell. It is a pleasure to feature today someone with as varied contributions and personal appeal as Craig. He has been a talent acquisition leader with 15 years of experience creating strategic talent programs including, but not limited to sourcing, recruitment marketing, college, diversity and workforce analytics. Craig attributes his success to having worked with world class companies such as Manpower International, Microsoft, Amazon.com, Starbucks Coffee Company and most recently MGMMIRAGE. These experiences have afforded Craig a depth and breadth of recruiting insight and best practices across these various industries. If you ask Craig the secret of his success, he will tell you he owes it to his years having an opportunity to showcase effective internal consulting skills, a strong bias for innovation and an ability to connect the dots between business strategy and talent strategy. Jason and I first met Craig in Las Vegas at the Recruiting Roadshow and he has been a ceaseless advocate for our efforts towards building community. I am a fan and a friend, and I see Craig going places as far as his imagination allow him, and I see no limits to that end - only fresh beginnings.
Q&A with: Craig Campbell
Six Degrees: Tell us about your home world, Craig.
Craig: I have a smart, hot girlfriend and I’m the father of beautiful 11-year-old daughter. As of late, I’m really upgrading my daddy skills because my daughter is now a pre-teen and has started wearing a training bra - HELP!
I love to devour good books that are mostly non-fiction. A few of the more recent I’ve read are “A Sense of Urgency by John p. Kotter; a re-read of “The DIP” by Seth Godin, “CrowdSourcing” by Jeff Howe and I’m bouncing around the chapters of Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. My favorite book is called A Hope in the Unseen: An American Odyssey from inner City to The Ivy League by Ron Suskind.
I’m a sports fan, but not avid because I prefer playing vs. watching. I played college basketball, which deeply influenced my sense of team, my desire to win and some of my approach to recruiting. I’ve dabbled in martial arts over the years, Tae Kwon Jo, Jujitsu and even tried mixed martial arts some years back. I decided to quit the MMA that after a co-worker upon seeing a few bruises on me, came into my office one day and said to me “I know the first rule is that there isn’t one, but are you in a fight club?” I thought it was pretty funny, but a couple of months later I experienced what they call a rear naked choke and didn’t sleep that night because I thought my throat would swell and cut off my breathing. To be clear, I wasn’t naked when this happened, it’s just non technical name for it...lol. Anyway, after that, lets just say I sought out other hobbies and decided to watch UFC from the sofa. I’m a “geek” and would consider myself a very early adopter of new hardware and software technology of all kinds and In case you were wondering, I’m a Mac with PC roots from my days at Microsoft. I love metaphors and my favorite one right now is one that I read in a guest blog post on cheezehead. Paraphrasing: You have to ask yourself - are your recruiting solutions painkillers or vitamins. I might extend that and add placebos. I’m a fan of painkillers
Six Degrees: How many years have you been in the staffing industry?
Craig: I’ve been in recruiting for about 15 years and done everything from professional, college, diversity, workforce analytics and branding. I got started by being a recruiting champion when I was working in the insurance industry. It wasn’t my fulltime job, but when they would invite my out to the events, the engagement, the process and end game came very naturally to me and shortly thereafter, I started to explore this profession called with recruiting, which I didn’t really know existed.
The most exposure I had to recruitment was my experience of being recruited for sports in high school, which did and still does influence my recruitment style today. One of the cool things about my summary of experience is that I’ve been able to scale across different industries and functions from temp to perm, software engineers to ecommerce to retail and most recently hotel casinos. I’m primarily a recruiting programs guy, eg. Sourcing, employee referral, college diversity, etc. and my best work zone is start-up, turnaround or growth challenges vs. maintenance.
Six Degrees: What single event had the most impact on your sourcing/recruiting career?
Craig: I think the event that had the most impact on my recruiting career was while I was at Microsoft during the dotcom era. It was fierce direct competition and I loved it. I was a senior member of the college recruiting team and we were as many as 500+ college candidates a year and it seemed as if there was a new start-up attacking our talent pool every week. These were the days when college students were getting huge cash signing bonuses, BMW leases and other crazy tactics to close the best and brightest.
The bottom line is that it was such a sweet intersection of systematic logic; creativity, candidate experience and the tenacity to win that sealed my love for the game of recruiting. What I’m proud of in that experience, is that so many of the individuals that my teammates and I hired during that time went on to become high performing leaders in the organization.
• I would also reference MGMMIRAGE. First and foremost it’s Vegas baby! It was very unique set of challenges that mostly revolved around solving for
• the sweet spot of high touch and high volume
• how to differentiate your employer value proposition in an extremely hyper competitive market in one geographic location
• managing hiring manager complacency around attracting the hourly job seeker
• External factors of housing foreclosures
• Successfully developing and managing the employer value proposition against the perception of the lifestyle of Vegas
These were really juicy, highly engaged challenges that many times were a moving target and I think will continue to be a moving target. It gave me the opportunity to dig deep into these challenges end to end at the property level and collective as an organization. The internal consulting and change management skills were truly battle tested. I think Las Vegas has a ton of runway for recruiting solutions.
Do you have a mentor to whom you attribute your overall outlook on recruitment, capabilities, and/or model your career after?
Craig: I give extra props to the recruiting philosophy and talent mindset at Microsoft during my time there. However, I attribute my overall outlook on recruitment, capabilities to the collective recruiting community more so than any one individual. In addition I tend to be influenced by the parallels of many non-recruiting professions. The just in time (JIT) product delivery models of Dell and Wal-Mart, the brands of Nike and Apple, the customer service/experience delivered by Starbucks and Nordstrom’s, the Porters 5 Forces for strategy and the recruiting prowess and discipline of schools like USC, North Carolina and Duke
Six Degrees: Tell us about your daily duties
Craig: I’ve typically managed small SWAT teams and my primary responsibilities have been focused on the following areas:
Strategy: Utilizing the best workforce analysis to customize and prioritize talent needs Identify the most compelling and relevant employer brand messages
leverage technology to build recruiting capacity.
Sourcing: (professional, college, diversity) Make it my business to know where candidates live, work, and play and I take us there: physically and virtually . Develop and tap into deep and complex social networks
Recruitment Marketing: Build talent channels in the same way the business builds supply chains.Translate the voice of your brand to help candidates understand why they should work for you.
Six Degrees: (A) What other companies' recruiting operations do you admire or have heard are best-practice examples?
Craig: As of late, I’ve been following and really like the execution of Sodexo. Their presence and execution of recruiting in the social media space has been impressive. They are also doing a great job at segmenting and customizing content for their respective talent pools such as military, diversity, college and alumni. The most impressive thing about there ability to launch, execute and leverage these tools is that it requires end to end support and buy in when not everyone “gets it.” Having spent most of my career in big corporations, its not always easy to get these types of strategies and tactics off the ground in the early adoption stage. Shout out to Arie Ball and the Sodexo talent acquisition team.
I would also call out EA and how they’ve led the way in how they leverage a CRM approach vs. core ATS, In addition to that, I like the way in which they use events to transfer the virtual relationships into in person engagements. Shout out to Cindy Nicola and Sean Rehder of Talent Logistics on that work.
Six Degrees: What recent general news story or industry trend do you feel will have an impact on your work in the future? Why?
Craig: As fundamental an effective as it has been for many companies, Employee referrals will continue to have an impact on my work and the industry. Generally, I don’t believe it’s been optimized. Although recently there are some yet to be proven tools on the market that leverage social networking platforms like facebook, linkedin, etc…I think there is huge runway in the employee referral channel.
Six Degrees: List/detail speaking events, awards, publications, where you have you represented your company:
Craig: I have spoken at ERE, NACE and Diversity Best Practices, but no awards to mention.
Six Degrees: What is your next career goal? What do you need to do to get there?
Craig: My next career goal is to build and lead a start-up or turnaround recruiting function that literally leverages the best practices of business strategy, technology, marketing and customer service instead of an aspiration. I the main things that I need is an organization and team with a strong sense of urgency, an entrepreneurial spirit, reasonable resources and the right capabilities appropriately aligned and lastly trust and autonomy. Game on…
Recommendations for Craig
“Craig is a true professional in Human Resources. He is an excellent strategist who thinks outside of the box to develop creative initiatives and processes. Craig has an unique understanding of the importance of "branding" within Human Resources and business in general. His valuable experience and thinking is emphasized with his ability to quickly develop credibility through executive presence and influence skills. I would sieze the opportunity to work with Craig again in the future. He will be an asset to any organization that thinks strategically about Human Resources.” December 15, 2008
Michelle (Bray) DiTondo, VP Human Resources, MGMMIRAGE-New York-New York
“I had the pleasure of getting to know Craig through my teams support of his initiatives - looking back, we learned something new (and important) in every interaction. He has the ability to take very complicated, large scale situations and quickly identify the most critical, though often subtle, details. Then, after creating and analyzing multiple potential solutions, effectively communicates to any level of audience which is the best and why. Craig is strong from strategy to execution, and from C-level to individual contributor. If you're building a team, make sure you have Craig on yours!” October 25, 2008
Mike Inman, Corporate Strategic Sourcing, MGM MIRAGE
“I have working with Craig on several recruiting events, diversity events as well as business planning. In each case, Craig has demonstrated great passion with the ability to generate good ideas. He was very thorough in his work and laid out plans that allowed the group to move forward in a positive direction.” October 7, 2008
Cordell Jones, Lead Program Manager - Microsoft Exchange, Microsoft
“Craig has been a huge asset to our company both from a leadership standpoint as well as supporting our talent initiatives. Craig has brought business intelligence and insights which have been "game changers" for our business. I hope to have the opportunity to continue to work with Craig in the future.” July 3, 2008
Mark Avery, Director Strategic Sourcing, MGMMIRAGE
“Craig is someone who creates a vision, explains the vision, and then delivers the vision. Coming from an exceptional background of work experience, Craig continues to push and to lead his employers in the "talent economy" in new and innovative ways.” June 16, 2008
Sean Rehder, Talent Management Consultant and Developer, MGM MIRAGE
“Craig brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the table. Over the years he has provided me with great advise and support. He is well connected in the recruiting industry and is always willing to share his knowledge with others. I would welcome the opportunity to work with him. Cody” May 25, 2008
Cody Horton, SPHR, Talent Acquisition Manager, Dell
“Without a doubt, Craig gets "it". He truly understands how recruiting impacts business not just from a hiring perspective but from a "bottom-line" perspective. He is extremely creative when it comes to the business of recruiting and sourcing strategies. I am looking forward to working with Craig again in the future.” May 22, 2008
Shea Putnam, Partner and Branch Manager, Coolhires
“Craig is a polished, confident staffing professional with a plethora of knowledge in all areas of the staffing industry. He is able to use his marketing and strategic thinking along with creativity to bring new meaning to outdated programs and processes. His ability to look at the staffing industry out of the box, from a consumer level rather than an employee level, enables him to create innovative programs that are far reaching within an organization. He is a charismatic and engaging speaker who is able to deliver high level information in corporate vernacular or “see spot run” fashion. He has been an enlightening person to work with.” May 21, 2008
Lauren Burke Bennett, Consultant, MGM MIRAGE
“Craig, has been an valuable resource to me. He offers wise counsel and is a big thinker who has helped me identify actionable solutions to staffing challenges (ATS, employee referral program, sourcing strategies, etc.) Craig's quickly understands complex problems and offers thoughtful, clear and insightful solutions. Whenever, I have an idea I want to brainstorm and/or challenge, Craig is the first person I call.” May 21, 2008
Jojuane Porter, Manager, Recruitment Process, Tools and Metrics, Kohl's Department Stores
“Craig is a dynamic professional that has a tenacity to uncover every stone until he locates the ideal result. He possesses the incredible ability to multi task, think out of the box, leverage hard to find resources, and initiate projects with long term benefits to both stakeholders and sponsors within the organization. Moreover, Craig continually brings concepts and ideas that are generations ahead of current corporate models, including time, cost and quality value propositions. Craig offers a relentless approach to extraordinary achievement. I believe that he is a valuable contributor to the MGM MIRAGE enterprise.” May 20, 2008
Lance Greeninger, Div. Corporate Recruiting & Human Resource Initiatives, MGM MIRAGE
“Craig has the ability to not only create a vision, but to see that vision through right down to the tactical level and foresee any operational impact the vision may have on different verticals within the organization. Knowing this, Craig will reach out to these stakeholders and involve them at the beginning stages in order to achieve the critical buy-in to foster the success of the vision/project. Bottom line, Craig brings vision, foresight and attention to detail to MGM MIRAGE.” May 20, 2008
Andrew Heckert, Manager, Strategic Sourcing, MGM MIRAGE
“Craig is a talented,creative, and smart staffing professional. He has the ability to access situations quickly and put together programs and solutions that not only work well, but can scale and be reproduced. He's responsive, proactive and a great person to work with. I'd work with Craig again and I highly recommend him.” May 20, 2008
Jerry Montgomery, Recruiter, Amazon.com…
oor, New York, NY 10017
Specialties: Negotiation, Strategic Sourcing, Marketing, Public Relations, Metrics/ SLAs, Website Optimization, & Branding
I had the unique pleasure of meeting Erica Jayne Walsh at ONREC this past September. She catches your eye for many reasons, some by the merits of mother nature and others ... the more lasting impressions ... for reasons of a personality you can't help forget. She is a force of nature; charming, a pervasive wit and when you think she couldn't do more to compel you to send her a follow-up email - she impresses you with substantive intellect and a thorough understanding of business models within our industry. She may be young but not impressionable - she leaves you with impressions and all of them remarkable.
I could make it all sound so simple, however, and simply tell you that of all my meals at ONREC, I recall most fondly sharing a deep dish pizza in Chicago with my new friend, Erica Jayne.
Q&A with Erica Jayne Walsh
Erica Jayne: My home life is interesting; I am a single twenty-something living in Midtown Manhattan. I bet that everyone is immediately thinking “Sex & the City” and though I do enjoy the shopping, restaurants, and nightlife lately my home life has been lacking because I am always working… so the TV show “The Apprentice” is far more relatable.
To best answer this question and avoid seemly like a totally dull human, it probably makes sense to divide my life into two phases … “The Pre-BountyJobs Era” and “The BountyJobs Era”.
Up until 6 months ago, I was living in downtown Indianapolis, working as a Sourcing Associate (paper-pusher, strategist, and spend analyst) for Eli Lilly and Company in the Procurement function.
I had a robust life that would be much more interesting to your readers than my current home life… I raced sailboats competitively at the Indianapolis Sailing Club, was a Naturalist & Conservationist at the Indianapolis Zoo, a Mascot (Walrus, Reindeer, Rhinoceros, and Meerkat) at collegiate sporting events, parades, and around the zoo campus.
[I wasn’t the best mascot… on one horrific day in December while dressed as Sparky the Reindeer (Rudolph is trademarked) I broke the two cardinal rules of mascoting. I not only spoke in costume but also was tackled by a 3 year old girl with pigtails and my reindeer head fell off… ruining the illusion of Christmas for hundreds of Indianapolis children forever].
I owned a beautiful condo on a lake and harassed the neighbors by attracting geese with food only to then sick my West Highlight White terrier, Lexi or “The Lexinator”, on the geese and the rest of the neighborhood.
Aside from Lexi, sailing, and volunteering the other joy of my life was pro-bono business consulting. I have always been quite passionate about entrepreneurship, while in college I was president of the Society of Entrepreneurs and didn’t want to betray my fellow classmates by wasting away in the Corporate World, so I started and ran my own consulting practice and spent my evenings and weekends working with retailers, restaurants, and technology companies in the Indianapolis area.
THE BOUNTYJOBS ERA
In April of this year, I underwent a major life change and dropped everything for the opportunity a lifetime. When I say everything, I mean everything… I am no longer the proud owner of a beautiful condo on the lake, but instead squeeze myself into a 250 sq. ft. apartment in Manhattan that costs three times my mortgage.
[The view from my apartment is spectacular; you actually can see “everything” going on in the apartments in the building just behind me. Actually, if you are willing to risk the guillotine of a window and stick your head out 5 inches, you can see the Empire State Building.]
Lexi has moved to Ohio to spend quality time with my Mom and her dog “Belle”… and I am no longer sailing, volunteering, or working on my Masters. Instead, I have opted to work 16 hours a day, every day of the week.
Now before you think I am crazy or start to feel sorry for the lack of luster in this era of my life… I’d like to mention that right now… I am living my ultimate dream. Actually, if we could decrease my city apartment rent by about 50% I’d be living the ultimate dream… right now we should stick with “dream” for the sake of realism.
Six Degrees: Any other interests/ hobbies or surprising facts?
Erica Jayne: Aside from everything I’ve already mentioned… my biggest interest is learning. I love finding out that I am an idiot… my grandpa always use to say “the more we learn, the more we learn we don’t know”. I wish I could specialize in everything, speak every language, relate to every culture, design buildings, engineer cities… essentially I want to be superwoman… but who doesn’t?
The thing that would probably most surprise all of your readers is that I am a high-school dropout. I dropped out of an esteemed college prep school after 10th grade to pursue my career as an international fashion model. I moved on my own at 16 to Barcelona Spain to work the fashion circuit. Unfortunately, shortly thereafter, September 11th occurred causing my mother to rethink the independent teenager strategy and pull me back home. The NY fashion industry took a major hit, causing the other US fashion markets to become flooded with top NYC models… eliminating my chances of breaking in. I worked for 2 years making minimum wage, doing strange jobs (gift basket arranger, greenhouse foliage caretaker, freelance event planner, hostess/ waitress, and freelance photographer).
I spent most of my time during those two years helping better fashion models launch their careers, working with reporters in the Detroit area to identify modeling scams, and trying to convince whatever business owner currently suffering through my employment that there was a better way to run their business. By the time I turned 18, I realized that I would never make a difference if I wasn’t taken seriously, so I got my GED… applied to college… got in… attended… and graduated 3 years later Summa Cum Laude, with a BS in Business Administration.
Six Degrees: How’d you end up at BountyJobs?
Erica Jayne: While I was working in Indianapolis for Lilly, I became increasingly frustrated. Prior to joining, I had no idea that big business was so inefficient… for example, it took Lilly 3 years to move forward on a project that was projected to save the company 30 million dollars with almost no risk.
One of my responsibilities at Lilly was to work with the Recruitment component to determine better ways to do business. This included a variety of projects such as redesigning how we orchestrated background checks, on-boarding a new recruitment advertising firm, organizing and resourcing our temporary labor division, streamlining contingency search vendors, forming strategic partnerships with executive search consultants, and outsourcing parts of the sourcing function.
Just to give you a sample, one of my projects was to eliminate the number of search firms under contract from a number in the hundreds to a number in the low teens. This project seemed impossible. We had little record of who had made placements, where the relationships stood, how these firms came to be under contract, what functional roles they supported and who really was valuable. It seemed that each internal recruiter operated in their own silo, and this applied just to the corporate recruiters sitting together on one floor within our corporate headquarters… completing disregarding the chaos at the Lilly subsidiaries and international entities.
We became so frustrated with the lack of organization within our internal recruitment arm that we decided to outsource a part of the function to an RPO.
Then one day, I got a call from Jeremy Lappin, the CEO of BountyJobs to discuss a standard search firm contract that had been given to his firm when they called into pitch Lilly the BountyJobs solution. After going bountyjobs.com, I realized that BountyJobs was not a search firm and in fact eliminated all of the contingency search problems and inefficiencies that I had just spent two years complaining about and suffering through.
BountyJobs had been in business less than 16 months when I first was exposed to it, was doubling every quarter and already had 20% of the Fortune 500 as clients. Jeremy then explained to me his plan to create a global solution that every recruiter (internal and third-party) used everyday.
Then I pretty much begged and harassed Jeremy for weeks until he agreed to be my mentor by bringing me onboard and teaching my how to launch and run a company.
Six Degrees: Tell us about BountyJobs?
Erica Jayne: As a company, BountyJobs is refreshing… we are energized, agile, and always customer focused. Our product has been designed to help an old industry (contingency search) take advantage of the scale and reach of the internet and the efficiencies that technology provides.
I joined the team long after the rocket was designed and launched, but the founders and core team realized that having each internal recruiter operate in isolation and without a strong technology system prevented companies from analyzing performance, sharing knowledge, and continuously improving. The team also realized that organizations were forced to limit the search firms they worked with because of the administrative hassles of on-boarding and managing the firms. When you think of global companies like Lilly, it is a little ridiculous to think that one RPO firm or 30 search firms can fill thousands of jobs all over the world in every specialty (Sales Reps from Anchorage to Dubai, PhD Research Scientists, Regulatory Advisors) … but when you have tens of thousands of professional search firms and headhunters that cover ever region of the globe and every specialty… the likelihood of filling the job dramatically increases.
So BountyJobs took the concept of a marketplace and applied it to a technological platform that streamlines all of the inefficiencies, eliminates administrative burdens, and enables employers to take control of the search process and stay in control with real time information and detailed reporting.
I’ll spare your readers the pitch, but if they are interesting in learning more they should check out our website (www.bountyjobs.com) and request a live demo… and we’ll walk them through it in about 5 minutes… it is really intuitive and there isn’t any cost to use the technology.
Six Degrees: What do you do for BountyJobs?
Erica Jayne: Jeremy has been kind enough to let me dabble in a bit everything. My two main focuses are marketing and business development. On the marketing side, I do brand management and positioning, develop and orchestra events, manage PR, build sales collateral, develop & execute the marketing plan, and form partnerships with industry thought leaders. Then on the biz dev side I analyze data to drive business development decisions and I work to close deals with other providers. This past week, my main focus has been on overhauling the front pages of the BountyJobs website, which we hope to be launching before the months end. Also, I should have another surprise for you in early Q1 of 2009.
Six Degrees: What most excites you about working for BountyJobs?
Erica Jayne: I love seeing the fills come through… we are doing thousands of fills in 2008. This is exciting, because each time I see another fill I realize… a candidate just found a way to improve their life, a headhunter just made money, and an employer just found the talent that is going to help their company achieve its objectives. It is really fun to be a part of something that is a win for everyone. I especially love seeing BountyJobs grow so quickly and knowing that I am a part of that growth. This week we just moved into a new office that is more than 5x our previous space… based on the constant stream of positive feedback and the rate at which we are growing domestically and internationally… I would be shocked if Jeremy’s projection [‘Every recruiter using BountyJobs every day’] didn’t come true.
Six Degrees: How does BountyJobs fit into your life plan?
Erica Jayne: Through this on-going experience, I’ve learned a lot about myself. I know who I am as a person and as a professional. Ultimately, I have the confidence and the where with all to know that I can provide BountyJobs with the right strategic insight, pursue an MBA at a top school, launch my own company, and ultimately build the life and world that I dream of. Everyone always asks entrepreneurs and people involved in entrepreneurial enterprises about their exit strategy. Honestly, when you are growing fast, living your dream, traveling the world, and making friends with amazing people… an exit strategy is the last thing on the mind.
Six Degrees: Any final comments?
Erica Jayne: Thanks so much for letting me be a part of sixdegreesfromdave. As I indicated I love learning from people and forming partnerships. If anyone wants to chat more with me about entrepreneurship, life, and/or workaholism, please reach out to me… I’d be glad to help however I can.…
the stress patterns where you are manipulating your victims." ~ John Kennedy
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"Sourcing In the Midnight Hours"
Now...scroll to the bottom and read up!
RecruiterGuy I'll post here when I get my beta back. I got a confirmation.
Denyse Diem ps - fonolo is not accepting new emails
Denyse Diem I think that name's gonna stick JK - I mean Lil' Ray!
Maureen Good night! Spread the word!
Adam Peterson thanks jason and maureen (and can't forget lil ray)
John Kennedy later, all ...
Adam Peterson g'nite all you east coasters!
John Kennedy Probably will be asleep then but will be looking forward to the transcript
Maureen See you next week - send me your ideas for topics you'd like to see discussed!
Maureen Good night Jason. Thank you all for attending this first ever MagicMethod Midnight Moves Phone Sourcing Chat - you've made RBC history!
Denyse Diem great for next week I guess! will be throwing a big b'day bash for hubbie so w't be able to make it next week.
John Kennedy used to work alot of 2 to 10's at the TV stations
Maureen I forgot to talk about sourcing in manufacturing - 2nd and 3rd shift workers are ever so helpful!
Jason Davis Maureen, I'll leave it like this till tomorrow am. I need to hit the sack
John Kennedy 3 to midnight, 5 to 1, something like that
Maureen 2nd being 6-3 ?
John Kennedy 3rd freaks me out a bit as by the time I wake up at or whatever the next day I can't tell "this morning" from "yesterday"
John Kennedy I do best 2nd ...
Maureen Maybe we can talk about that next time - how to best use your Body's Time Clock
John Kennedy I have been 1st for years now and I still can't get used to it
Denyse Diem insomniac JK?
Maureen So you're a Night Owl John?
John Kennedy Don't know if this would be it ... but definitely something to think about
Maureen Let's keep an eye out for subjects we can bring to chat on this issue - show and tell!
John Kennedy But I have been looking for something to get me back on 2nd or 3rd shift for a while
Adam Peterson "Dark Side Sourcing"
Maureen Dark Time Sourcing
Maureen I like that idea John and will think on it.
John Kennedy Where YOU would have vendors that employ ... well ... techniques best exercised in the dark
Maureen Jason, I find this chat kinda "sticky" to use. Though it could be MY clumsy fingers.
Denyse Diem Thanks again Maureen. Have a great Sunday everyone!
Maureen I wish I could type! I will fix the spelling errors in the transcript.
John Kennedy Interesting ... perhaps there could be ANOTHER bifurcation into "Daylight" and "Vampire" sourcing
RecruiterGuy As usual.. great chat, Maureen.
Maureen Night time "assaults", as you'd all them, accomplish this many times.
Maureen AND YOU NEED TO GET THROUGH.
Maureen That's not so true John. There are times when daytime work (Gatekeeperson, Admins, Exec Assts) just aren't "hacking" it.
Adam Peterson not from me - learned a lot. thank you Maureen!
Maureen Anyone have any questions?
Maureen We'll do this again next Saturday and keep it up for awhile to see how it goes...
John Kennedy So of the remaining % it sounds like so many more come from a full frontal gatekeeper run that anything additional you'd get at night may not even be worth the time
Maureen 80/20 applies when sourcing - spend 20% Internet sourcing/research and 80% on the phone
John Kennedy And, well, the 30% active would have been taken care of before they made it to sourcers ...
RecruiterGuy other than my work schedule going nuts sometimes... I'm good in the day
Maureen I'm curious if anyone attended tight who could not attend the weekly day-time chats?
John Kennedy or more likely 95/5 rule ...
John Kennedy although in recruiting it usually comes down to 90/10 rule ...
John Kennedy the old 80/20 rule ...
Maureen I agree w/ that but that's true in all things.
John Kennedy There are some things worth spending your time and some that aren't ...
John Kennedy BUT, the overall conclusion is that I've drawn is that in recruiting in general ...
John Kennedy Yes, it takes me a while to make a point ...
John Kennedy I remember this one fellow who kept saying that certain people had a "real '' attitude" ...
John Kennedy and one thing you see with that is a tendency to try to label EVERYTHING ...
John Kennedy Well, you see, I have alot of Asperger's running through my family ...
Maureen But what was your point - I felt you were going somewhere w/ it..
John Kennedy I think someone said it was Monday and I didn't think even the latest place is Monday yet
Maureen I love the Sharibian comment - John - my econ professors at UC would be so proud of me...
John Kennedy after heads-down, no LinkedIn profile, no user group involvement, no articles individual contributors ...
Maureen John what was your point before about Sunday being the latest time on earth?
John Kennedy Frt-door, full-frontal gatekeeper assault ...
John Kennedy The remaining 70% is ... well ... Sharibian ...
John Kennedy about30 % "active" candidates - major job boards, answering ads, conventional stuff ...
John Kennedy ALL recruiting combined ...
Denyse Diem Can we just call you Lil Ray, John?
Maureen Me too Adam. I always enjoy having John in these chats- he has a way of smackin' us all upside the head occasionally...
John Kennedy the picture that's getting painted ...
John Kennedy BUT ... based... what ... two years of ERE traffic ...
John Kennedy Oh, always ... but sometimes I'm not sure what case I'm building
Maureen "little ray" I can see that...
Denyse Diem LOL
Maureen "...manipulating my victims"? LOL Are you building a case John?
Denyse Diem There is a Sourcing Conference in Miami - apologies - thought you would get the op to meet Maureen and understand her brain dump instead of tape dump....
Maureen You'll learn yours if you take this up.
John Kennedy In my immediate circle of friends I'm known as "The little ray of sunshine"
Maureen THEN the Executive Asst to the C level - then the Admin Asst to the dept. In that order. For me. Everyone has their favored paths.
Adam Peterson vampires, stress patterns, victims <- love the positive spin on all this
Maureen YES John.
Maureen But, if I understand you correctly, you'd still say the front-line gatekeeper is still the most productive source of information?
John Kennedy Miami?
John Kennedy Yes, if you have movies with "live" soundtracks that would probably give me enough to pick up the stress patterns where you are manipulating your victims
Maureen probably so John.
Denyse Diem John will you be in Miami this September?
Maureen That's right - I ‘member D. First module - there's a couple lessons on phone banks and how to title ID the names you get those banks!
John Kennedy Wait a sec ... the latest it is anywhere on Earth right now is about 6pm Sunday I think
Maureen John, you keep talkin' about "tape dumps". I don't HAVE tape dumps. Though you would enjoy seeing the real time sourcing movie we made last year - it was filmed over the course of two days and is actual phone sourcing - I show it at training seminars and the reactions are always good - "Riveting" it's been called!
Denyse Diem Monday - - The week/end is shot already. As I mentioned, much afoot this weekend.
John Kennedy Yeppers
Denyse Diem tape dump = pod cast correct JK?
Maureen D - Magic goes through all this - have you started yet?
Maureen Yes D it's a very good place to start for a new sourcer - practicing phone banks and using the names you get them when you phone source the next day.
John Kennedy But, again, to do a proper analysis, I'd need a tape dump
John Kennedy Correct ... there's such a thing as going too far to create a sense of urgency ...
Denyse Diem good point John - hadn't thought of that
Maureen I think that's ridiculous to act like that.
Maureen Interesting point John. But I never (as far as I can tell) create panic. At least I think I don’t. I know sourcers who will call and imperiously say stuff like "You must give me the name of...or else your boss is going to hear about your (intransigence) and believe me there will be hell to pay!”
Denyse Diem would that be a suggestion for a new sourcer? doing the phone banks I mean...
John Kennedy But, if I understand you correctly, you'd still say the front-line gatekeeper is still the most productive source of information?
John Kennedy and it may be possible that South Asian culture maybe has something along a "maintain an even strain" element to it that it is difficult for them to project that sense of urgency/panic.
Maureen AND they can reveal the most amazing information!
Maureen Phone banks can really teach you alot though about sourcing - they force you to THINK about ways in.
John Kennedy she does get the "building on fire" sense of urgency through her voice that I understand is absolutely necessary for any part of the recruiting business ...
Maureen When I first started sourcing I would spend hours and hours doing phone banks - usually I'd get up early (about 2 ) and work til they opened doing phone banks - I don’t do much of that anymore.
John Kennedy and although I haven't had a chance to review an actual tape dump, based on the transcripts I would have to say ...
Maureen Anyhoo- anyone have any good night time stories about sourcing?
John Kennedy It sounds like, of what I have read so far, Maureen is about as "mild" as you get in the sourcing business ...
Maureen John, It's hard to find articles on ERE I find - it seems sometimes search works better than others - you have most luck searching w/in a specific group - try Sourcing Techniques group first John - then ASK - use "culture" as keyword.
John Kennedy Well, if I have to hazard a guess ...
Maureen Try search Google, John - culture difficulty indian sourcing – use those words
John Kennedy I'm almost certain it was ERE. Maybe six months ago.
John Kennedy I wish I would have saved it.
John Kennedy but it was very specific language he used about not being able to navigate the culture for such an endeavor...
Maureen Me too D.
Denyse Diem JK - I would love to understand what they perceive as our 'intricacies of culture'
John Kennedy Possibly ... perhaps based on many experience with outsourced customer service ...
Maureen I ask that because I still see most sourcing requests (even from outside US) for sourcing out of US companies that are located within IN US.
Maureen Maybe so. Do you think there is resistance to SE Asian culture here?
John Kennedy but they said they couldn't do phone sourcing because they couldn't navigate the intricacies of the culture
Maureen Yes D
Maureen Same phenomenon in other parts of the world. Mostly. I've sourced Australia, China Japan India and Europe - same thing most places - the place I find difficult to source is Mexico - if you can believe it - it's hard to get people who speak English there on the phone!
John Kennedy they were saying they had subscriptions to something like two billion resume databases and several other tools ...
Denyse Diem let me rephrase Maureen - would you said you gain access to information far more readily b/c people really want to help someone from the US?
John Kennedy But, yes, I need to do a better job of holding to these articles ... but there was something about an Indian company that did virtual recruiting ...
John Kennedy So I can see something like that might go on when you call ...
John Kennedy And I remember hear them saying, as if it was Christmas morning or some such, "It's Louise in America!"
Maureen Interesting John. I'm interested to hear that.
John Kennedy She called the UK frequently because some of their governing structure is there ...
Maureen It' s not hard to source abroad - remember D sourcing is simple but it's NOT easy!
John Kennedy Oh, yes ... I remember that phenomenon from my grandmother who used to be very active in the structure of the United Methodist Church ...
Maureen That's why I wonder about what those southeast asian (Indian) companies mean...though maybe the Southeast Asian accent is more of a handicap here in the states? I dunno...
Denyse Diem so would you say it's easier to source abroad then?
Maureen When I call Canada it works almost EVETY SINGLE TIME.
Maureen NO KIDDING
Maureen Good question John. PRETTY MUCH the same techniques work ONLY in some countries, when I say, “This is Maureen Sharib calling from the U.S." I can hear them drop what they're doing and most of them drop what they're doing to HELP me in whatever way they can.
Denyse Diem Amie - do you recruit/source abroad?
John Kennedy Do you run into similar issues when calling outside the country or do the same techniques that work here work there?
Maureen When I hit the morning guard I use the evening guard's name..."Oh, has Joe left already? Maybe YOU can help me..." It helps me establish a slight familiarity immediately.
John Kennedy I remember seeing a posting from an Indian recruiting company that they really couldn't do names sourcing because they couldn't navigate the culture properly ...
RecruiterGuy Not much... but did just fill a comp & benefits title in the UK.
John Kennedy Actually, that would bring up an interesting question ...
Denyse Diem what about the rest of you - what % of your work is abroad in other time zones?
Maureen Growing but still a small %.
Denyse Diem -- both abroad and I hope I take it
Maureen Denyse Usually persons, D. A small part of my biz is overseas.
Maureen Usually around 6 or 7.
Maureen Early mornings are very good times to call too - when the guard shift changes.
Denyse Diem SO when you call abroad, are you all calling phone banks as well as live folks?
Maureen But I don’t see it that way John. I see it as common sense conversational techniques.
John Kennedy You have a grandfathered flat mthly long distance over POTS plan? No wonder you're in the business you're in ...
Maureen Unusual - LOL Maybe so.
John Kennedy Or perhaps the more Constitutionally phrased "unusual" would be a better description
Maureen I use a pay e price per month plan. TTI I think it is - they don’t offer it anymore but I hang on for dear life through a grandfather clause.
Maureen (Loaded question)
Maureen John, do you think we use unconventional methods to extract information?
John Kennedy Well what LD carrier do you have that you can afford to war dial Hong Kong??
John Kennedy Yes ... generally speaking hacking is attempting to extract information from a database through ... unconventional methods ... much as your phone sourcing is extracting similar information from humans
Maureen Phone hacking. Hmmm...
Maureen I don’t use Skype- I always use land lines.
John Kennedy re Hong Kong - you have a pretty healthy Skype account there, eh, Maureen?
RecruiterGuy Isn't that how some of us fell into recruiting?
John Kennedy Why of course ... seems this "sourcing" has much in common with, by some measurements, a much older and more intense practice called "hacking"
Maureen That is certainly one of the things we can do in the middle of the night with the phone - can anyone think of others?
maren oh yeah! I got that too!
Maureen Someone said before class started that one thing we can do in the middle of the night is call other countries -Europe is hrs or so ahead of us Hong Kong 13 hrs or so .
RecruiterGuy Found it... link (RG - this link needs correction - I lost it in transcription)
Maureen Yes, war dialing - John you come up w/ some interesting catch phrases! May I use them?
John Kennedy Oooooooh ... you mean war dialing the directory
Maureen I mean the names in the thing - all the names listed under ABC, all the names under DEF and so ...
John Kennedy Now by phone trees you mean the menu structure?
Maureen RG - in beta - a service that will do phone trees? What is it?
John Kennedy Service in beta?
Maureen Yes, you can John. During the DAY as well!
RecruiterGuy /me digs in bookmarks.
RecruiterGuy Hmmm.... seems I was looking at a service that is in beta now that will perform that automatically for ya' now.
John Kennedy You can find out a very great deal from the back door guard at night.
Maureen The answer is yes John.
Maureen would be quite fascinated to learn if a person can extract a useful number of names by hammering the automated directories
RecruiterGuy the phone tree was the first step, mind you... I didn't find THEM in it.
John Kennedy Actually I hadn't actually thought of it, but I did that by accident before I even got in the recruiting business.
Maureen Do you want to learn John about phone banking?
RecruiterGuy I hired two brokers in a month span that were a result of working my way through a phone tree.
Maureen We have 24 online now - welcome!
Maureen Would you have DARED to do that? Do you see it as daring? Calling a security guard in the middle of the night?
John Kennedy But I would be quite fascinated to learn if a person can extract a useful number of names by hammering the automated directories
Maureen Did you all read "Middle of the Night Sourcing" – the post in the Forum section? Would you have thought to do that? When I was new I wouldn’t have!
John Kennedy Well, with almost 100% contract employees I've never really had a need ...
Maureen Do you know how to do it?
Maureen What are you curious about John?
John Kennedy The other thing is that if your "victim" is a piece of machinery now THAT I might be able to do
RecruiterGuy Ahhhh voicemail.... that brings back memories of learning call trees after hours and taking shots at spelling with the number pad for names and titles in voicemail. lol
Maureen That's also true RG - I LOVE to source around holidays - we have a good one coming up – Labor Day!.
Maureen That's true John. I like the imagery!
RecruiterGuy It's always challenging to get past the gatekeeper.... but they were always a little more vulnerable right before a weekend or when trying to scoot out for a holiday weekend. Catching them in just the right moment is always helpful.
John Kennedy Is that there are some true vampires of sourcing ... that can bring a voice mail directory to its knees at 2 am.
Denyse Diem Hello, I'm just entering the field of Sourcing and looking to learn all I can from you experienced Sourcers
Maureen Why so John?
John Kennedy But what I'm curious about that I've heard Maureen mention once or twice ...
Maureen “…when someone would give me anything just to get off the phone” - Explain that, RG - what did you do that made yourself so uhhh..."vexing"?
John Kennedy Yes ... - is a remarkably productive half hour ...
RecruiterGuy Not this late at night. But early in the morning worked well as did right toward the end of the day when someone would give me anything just to get the phone.
Amie E Yes, Phone, Internet, I’m not committed to one, I use whatever it takes.
Maureen RG - did you ever do it AT NIGHT?
Maureen Amie, do you phone source?
RecruiterGuy Hello - I used to perform heavy phone sourcing when I was a headhunter ~ years ago. I recruited for brokerage managers.
John Kennedy Morbid curiosity
Amie E how about jill of all trades??
Maureen What brings you all here tight?
Maureen Any Internet sourcers? Introduce yourselves!
Maureen Welcome to the MagicMethod Midnight Moves Sourcing Chat! Do we have any phone sourcers among us?
Midnight – Chat officially starts
Adam Peterson you guys on the east coast are hard core - this is a perfect dinner break here in CA
Denyse Diem JK - refresh your screen or go up to your url bar and enter twice - that should help
Maureen You’ll get used to it fast John - I hope Animal shows up tight - I don’t think he's going to though. He's prob’ly FAST asleep. I don’t dare wake him.
John Kennedy Okay ... this scrolling up is going to drive me nuts.
Maureen If any of you want to tweet that class is about to start - that would be cool! Make sure you give them the site link!
Maureen Have you all read the post I put up this morning in the Forum? It’s called “Middle of the Night Sourcing.”. Read it before class starts – it’s along the lines of what we’re going to be talking about in here tight in the midnight chat.
Denyse Diem wow - very useful!
Amie E It takes the persons email addy, shows their LI profile, if you are connected with them, and your email history with that person.. it also shows how many new contacts you connected with.. neat management tool
Maureen Jason, these logs become tutorials as well!
Amie E My newest widget is xobni, it is an outlook tool I liking alot
Denyse Diem now I hear it
Denyse Diem test
RecruiterGuy Okay... so I sent out some tweets about stracka.com... and I posted on some forums I hang out ... and now I'm getting notices like CRAZY about people joining. At least in the last days. Hmmmm....
RecruiterGuy Yup. lol
Adam Peterson RG - gotta mic?
Adam Peterson ...and then enable the sound feature
Adam Peterson try clicking the "+" button on the bottom right
Adam Peterson is it only working for me??
Jason Davis I don’t hear it either
Denyse Diem no sound here either - do we need to do anything in particular to hear it?
Amie E I not hearing it
Adam Peterson It works for me
Maureen That's cool but I don’t hear it - do I need to do something here?
Maureen This would do away w/ that old familiar war cry "You changed my words you so-and-so!"
Jason Davis Maureen, I enabled sound when a new post goes up i think. let me know if it is good
Maureen Jason, I really like the cache feature of this chat service. Look down below at the number of cached pages already!
Adam Peterson (well, that was my point of view at the time)
Adam Peterson I'm sorry, I realized i was giving away contact info to a recruiter
Maureen Adam, when did you realize what happened?
Adam Peterson the guy in the cube next to me heard my side of the conversation and thought something was up - so i started asking questions
Maureen So Adam, you know these things happen? How do you know that was a recruiter?
Maureen Click here for international time zones or to find out yours.
Adam Peterson the recruiter who called was a little sketchier - claimed they worked for my company, their network was down
Maureen What happened Adam?
Maureen We're going to be talking about the things you can do with a telephone in the middle of the night. Any of you have any ideas what some of those things might be?
Adam Peterson to be honest, it reminded me of my first job out of college (i-banking) where I was the one who got called at a slightly off hour
Maureen Amie, did you read "Middle of the Night Sourcing"?
Maureen What did you like about it Adam?
Adam Peterson great story posted in the forum btw
Adam Peterson Maureen, I'm planning listening in
Maureen Who is here for Midnight Moves?
Warm –Up – this conversation started a half hour or so before class started.…
An $800 fee in 1979 bought a lifetime of confidence to share with others ....
Meet our friend and fellow RecruitingBlogs.com enthusiast, Mark E. Berger. Since 1979 he has been a driving force within the staffing community and his accomplishments have been widely recognized.
"Mark has been one of my longest standing heroes and influencers in the business of sourcing. His quiet and humble demeanor exudes an unmatched confidence, while at the same time makes him extremely approachable. From when we first virtually “met” before the turn of the millennium, I have remained a loyal and devoted fan of his work. I can offer no stronger endorsement than the fact that I trust him completely and strive to find more ways in which we can do business together regularly.” December 31, 2007"
Shally Steckerl, Chief CyberSleuth & Founder, JobMachine, Inc, (JobMachine.net)
I should preface my featured article by letting our audience know that Mark and I are fellow travelers within the sourcing community and that we share mutual admiration of our colleagues Shally Steckerl and Glenn Gutmacher. That said, Mark established himself long ago and independently with his SwatRecriting Techniques - so good that it caught the eye of JobMachine and has since joined us as an Adjunct Faculty member since September 2008.
In his role as Adjunct Faculty, Mark conducts online workshops for Swat Recruiting and JobMachine customers, covering many of the topics in the JobMachine curriculum. His specialties inclued demonstrating how to maximize searches on Google, Windows Live and LinkedIn, advanced techniques for finding resumes online, and specialized search engine syntax such as the site: command, intitle: and inurl:.
Mark has been in recruiting and staffing since 1979. He is currently the proprietor of Swat Recruiting (www.swatrecruiting.com), a firm supporting the technology needs of the recruiting and staffing industry.
He has been heavily involved in Internet recruiting ever since there was such a thing and has become an expert on recruiting and sourcing products and services available to the recruiting industry. Mark started utilizing the Internet for candidate sourcing back in the early 1990s by first running classified ads on the text versions or AOL and Compuserve. Then he was an early user of some of the very first online resume databases including Career Mosaic, Headhunter.net, and Online Career Center. In the latter part of the 90s Mark learned advanced techniques to source passive candidates from the Internet using the search engines, primarily utilizing Alta Vista and Northern Lights in the beginning and is now an advanced user of today's popular search engines including Google, Live, and Yahoo. Mark also has a high level of expertise in recruiter databases (ATS’s), including how these products add to the bottom line.
Mark has authored the Internet Recruiting column appearing monthly in The Fordyce Letter since 1998 and is a frequent contributor to other recruiting industry publications. He is also an often requested speaker at many local, regional, and national recruiting industry events.
Mark is also on the board of directors for the Mid-America Association of Personnel Services
Q&A with Mark Berger
Six Degrees: Tell us about your home world Mark.
Mark: To date, my personal life has been fairly private. I am a simple man with simple needs and tastes that leads a fairly uncomplicated yet enjoyable life. I am lucky to have a great job that I love, get to travel fairly regularly, a wonderful family including three great school-aged kids that I am very close with. In whatever free time I do have I enjoy going to yard sales and estate sales, usually on the weekends. You just never know what treasure you will stumble on next.
Six Degrees: How many years have you been in the staffing industry?
Mark: I started in the early days of IT recruiting, 9/17/79. Back then it was nothing more than recruiting COBOL and Assembler programmers on IBM, Honeywell, Univac, and Burroughs “mainframes”. There was a little Fortran on DEC/PDP’s as well. How things have changed… I was at it pretty much full time for many years, close to 28 or so, until I went into recruiter technology training full time back in 2006.
Six Degrees: How did you get started as a recruiter?
Mark: I wish my story could be more dramatic but back in the late 1970s nobody even knew what a “recruiter” was. Most of the time people thought I worked for the military. I remember being doing some shopping one day and bumped into a friend I had worked with in a prior job. He just happened to mention I should come and interview with his boss, who was looking to hire a couple of people. I agreed and although I had no idea what I was walking into nor the impact it would have on the rest of my life, I was offered and accepted the job. After my initial 60 minute training session my boss had me make out a bunch of index cards (pre-computer/pre-database) with all the company names I could find, then started to call those companies to solicit job orders. I made my first placement in my third week…and the rest is history.
Six Degrees: What single event had the most impact on your sourcing/recruiting career?
Mark: Probably that first placement, back in 1979. In this new job of mine, not knowing what I was doing, I did wonder if I was cut out for the task. That first placement, I think for an $800 fee, gave me the confidence I needed to go forward and turn this job into the career that it has been for me.
Do you have a mentor to whom you attribute your overall outlook on recruitment, capabilities, and/or model your career after?
Mark: In my early days, I never had a mentor. I was always jealous of those recruiters who worked for the very few other recruiting companies at the time that actually had big billers on staff to learn from. The company I worked for didn’t really have anyone like that. I always used to tell people back then that the reason I knew what to do at any given time was because I had done it wrong in the past and was able to learn from my mistakes. Later in my career, I’d have to say Paul Hawkinson, long-time editor and publisher of the venerable Fordyce Letter, nurtured my early role as his Internet Recruiting columnist, starting in 1998. His early vision that an Internet column in his newsletter is only one indication of his broadminded outlook on this industry. These days, if I had to pick a mentor it would be Shally, whom I have known for many, many years. Before his name because a household word in our industry. I saw his JobMachine grow from a small, part-time endeavor to become a national influence in the recruitment/sourcing industry. Every time I listen to him speak, I learn something new.
Six Degrees: Tell us about your staffing industry contributions, Mark:
Mark: Currently, I am owner of Swat Recruiting (www.swatrecruiting.com). I actually started Swat many years ago but never really had the time to do what I wanted to do with it. In late 2005 I made the decision to change the focus of my career from placements to training, and have never been happier. Although I do miss the placements from time to time, I feel very fulfilled and actually love my job now. Swat is involved in all types of recruiter technology. Anything computer, Internet, software related. We try and assist recruiting organizations integrate technology into their work environment. There are so many choices out there it is overwhelming for some. Swat Recruiting offers many training sessions, mainly on sourcing passive candidates on the Internet, and most have been very well received by the recruiting community. We also work on marketing plans from time to time with recruiting industry vendors, and have a small ATS consulting practice.
Six Degrees: What other companies' recruiting operations do you admire or have heard are best-practice examples?
Mark: Well…I don’t know about companies, but I do have a few “heroes” I suppose. A couple I already mentioned. Paul Hawkinson, who just received a Lifetime Achievement Award at the most recent NAPS conference, has always been someone I have looked up to, and I am very privileged to have been able to get to know him in my ten-year association with him prior to his retirement. Shally Steckerl is another already mentioned. This man is a true visionary in our chosen field and one that is well-respected throughout. It is my honor and pleasure to be as closely associated with him as I am. Donato Diorio is another. This man is a tireless supporter of our industry, and now only develops some of the finest recruitment software via his Broadlook company, he is also very knowledgeable about the inner workings of our industry. I have had the pleasure of knowing him since the early days of Broadlook.
Six Degrees: What recent general news story or industry trend do you feel will have an impact on your work in the future? Why?
Mark: Lucky for me…the prevailing industry trend is locating passive candidate resources on the Internet, my specialty. As far as this aspect of the recruiting industry has come, I feel like in many ways we are still in its infancy. I think over the next few years networking for candidates will become more and more an accepted way to get those elusive A+ candidates as the pricey resume databases will become less influential.
Six Degrees: I know you have been active on the speaking circuit over the years, Mark can you elaborate on where our colleagues can have an opportunity to see you in action?
Mark: One thing I really enjoy about my career as an industry trainer is that I do get to travel from time to time for public speaking engagements. I have been to Fordyce Forum, the National Association of Personnel Services national conference, MRI, Top Echelon, and IPA regionals. I have also had the pleasure of working with these groups and others including Kennedy Information, NPA, ASA, and many state and local recruiter associations to get the word out about this technology. For many years I have been a Certified Personnel Consultant (CPC) and a Certified Internet Recruiter (CIR). I am also very proud to say I am not an Adjunct Faculty member at JobMachine.net and will be participating on a regular basis in the Webinar Series and be a regular blog contributor.
Six Degrees: What is your next career goal? What do you need to do to get there?
Mark: My career goals are simple. Not only to learn as much as I can about recruiter technology…to stay abreast of everything new and exciting, but to be able to teach what I learn to others, so they can make effective use of these new trends to make more hires or placements.
PART II: “HOW DOES MARK DO IT?”
Six Degrees: What recruitment software tools do you use in your day to day recruitment activities & do they translate effectively within all of the different countries where you recruit?
Mark: In my role as the Internet Recruiting columnist for the Fordyce Letter and industry technology trainer I maintain relations with surely the vast majority of the recruiting industry vendors, ATS, Data/Resume Capture, Contact Databases, etc. People often ask me for my recommendations or favorites, and although I do have them I always encourage people to make their selection based on their own needs, not what I happen to like.
Six Degrees: What tools did you first encounter early in your recruitment career?
Mark: When I first started in the business back in 1979, we used index cards to sort our companies/clients and hard copy resumes for our candidates. This was way before computers, much less the Internet. This was even before fax machines as we had to make copies of resumes and actually mail them (yes, USPS…with a stamp) to our clients. We had file drawers with folders and tabs for different programming languages and/or job titles and/or hardware. Our job was made much more difficult by the fact that if a person had more than one skill, you either had to make a duplicate copy of his resume and file it in a second folder, or, more often forget that he or she was there. We had to rely a lot more on our memories that we do today. Those were the reasons I was a very early proponent of automation/computerization in the recruiting office in the 1980s, as soon as the PC came onto the market. Then in the early nineties, we tried running classified ads for programmers on the text versions of America Online and Compuserve. Snagged a few here and there. The middle nineties brought the early iterations of resume databases including Headhunter.net, Career Mosaic, Online Career Center, etc. All those have since been gobbled up by today’s big services. Then, in the latter part of the nineties, the term “passive candidate” was first coined, and we learned how to use Internet search engines, back then mainly AltaVista and NorthernLights, to search for resumes. Since then it has been a learning process and then a teaching process the last few years.
Six Degrees: How do you personally expect to facilitate change within our industry, and/or at your place of work? If you started that process, outline the problem, your solutions, and the vision.
Mark: The problem, if there is one, depends on the audience. If you talk about HR, this is a group of people not typically trained in sales. You can teach them all about sourcing techniques but once they have sourced a few candidates, they may be unsure as to how to make the connection, how to lure that resource into the fold. The solution here is to give that audience a simple, yet reliable way to make contact and get their foot in the door. Most big companies have this problem licked by dedicating teams of people, however, many smaller and medium sized organizations do not have the financial resources or manpower to do this. They have to be more creative.
If you look at the third-party group, the problem differs a bit. This is a group that is typically highly skilled in sales, however, lack the patience and/or inclination to follow a thorough sourcing process. This needs to be taken into account when presenting to this group. They need some very easy ways to perform this task.
Six Degrees: “Best practice” you are most proud of developing (now or in the past) in your recruiting career?
Mark: Probably preaching a process-oriented approach to sourcing. Technique is one thing. You can get techniques from the Google help pages, but it is only when those techniques are integrated with a comprehensive, multi-pronged approach can one expect to say they have done a thorough job of sourcing their next applicant. So many I talk to run one string in one search engine, grab a few resources and call it a day. Little do they know how much they are leaving on the table for those more thorough competitors.
Six Degrees: Considering all of the frustrations you have experienced in your career as a recruiter, -- what inspires you as you continue in your career?
Mark: One thing that helps is to try hard not to become frustrated. What goes up goes down but conversely, what goes down goes up. There are always good times and bad times in any business. Ride the wave either way it goes and be in it for the long haul.
Six Degrees: What one thing do you ideally hope to accomplish in 2009?
Mark: Next year, one of my professional goals is for my training to become more appealing to an international audience. I have had a couple classes to Australians, Asians, and the English. I want to do more of that. I also want to expand my training to include more of the network available to recruiters. There are so many now it is hard for one to know the good from the great.
Six Degrees: Anything you want to plug?
Mark: Check the JobMachine.net calendar regularly for my webinars. Better yet, sign up to be on the mailing list so you won’t miss the announcements.
Six Degrees: How Are You Going To Change The Recruitment Industry?
Mark: Simple…learn more…teach more.
Listen to Mark in action this Thursday: Free Webinar, Register HERE for "Turbocharged Passive Candidate Sourcing: Best of Telephone, Google & Online Database Research Techniques" with Co-Presenter, Sheila Greco
“I highly recommend anyone to work with Mark. I've trained with him a couple times. He had a wonderful rapport with trainees at all levels. He is always very responsive to questions, feedback, or simple explanations to my issues. His ability to connect with superiors, clients, vendors, and subordinates is what sets Mark apart from other trainers; he had the balance of truly listening and then approaching issues with candid yet insightful knowledge. Mark has excellent written and verbal communication skills, is extremely organized, reliable and a whiz with any sourcing technology. I have emailed him questions and despite her busy schedule he gets back to me immediately and always with a very positive attitude. I recommend Mark without reservation."” May 27, 2008
Teresa Bustamante PHR, CPC, Research Analyst, Avery Dennison
“Mark's down-to-earth writing and seminar teaching style is easy to follow and his strategies are simple to execute. Mark really cares about helping his colleagues and client/students become more efficient and more effective recruiters.” November 25, 2008
Top qualities: Expert, Good Value, High Integrity
“I had the good fortune of attending Mark's Linked-In webinar. Up until this point, I hadn't done much with Linked-In. However, Mark taught many options one could investigate to help in sourcing passive candidates. While I'm just starting out using Linked-In, I'm hopeful that it will be a big help in my building a solid network & provide another alternative to traditional sourcing.” November 3, 2008
Michael Klass, Search Consultant, Joan Leslie Search Group
was with another company when working with Mark E. at Swat Recruiting
“I have taken 2 courses from Mark and look forward to taking more. He knows his stuff and is a great teacher.” October 30, 2008
Top qualities: Great Results, Expert, Good Value
Bill Zajac PE
hired Mark E. as a Business Consultant in 2008, and hired Mark E. more than once
“Mark is truly an expert in the area of recruiting technology analysis. He breaks down the process to even the most minute detail, and is quick to understand the impact technology has on the recruiting process. While I may not always agree with what Mark has to say, I certainly respect his viewpoint, and it makes for great conversation. Thanks for your commitment to our industry, Mark.” August 19, 2008
Mike Tischer, Channel Manager and Sr. Sales Representative, Broadlook Technologies
was with another company when working with Mark E. at Swat Recruiting
“I have worked with Mark on a number of Kennedy Information sponsored seminars. He is a joy to work with because he is a true professional who updates his content on a regular basis and has a great ability to reach his audience. Post report analysis prove that he is popular talent. I look forward to working with Mark in the future.” August 15, 2008
Hillary Kyle Holian, Associate Producer, Kennedy Information, Career Management Alliance, IOMA
“I have had the pleasure of knowing and working with Mark Berger for several years. Mr. Berger is a top notch recruiter and an expert in the application of technology to the recruitment process. He provides a much needed resource to the staffing and recruiting industries through his training programs and leadership. Mark is also a tireless supporter and board member of the Mid America Association of Personnel and Staffing Services. His input and insights have had a tremendous impact on both that organization but also on the many members of that organization.” June 18, 2008
Roger Aistrup, General Manager, Allan James Associates LLC
“I've taken 2 classes from Mark and find his work to be very meaningful and thorough on the subject. He not only has a pleasant manner, you can tell he enjoys what he does. He is extremely knowledgeable and detailed in his presentations and materials. I highly recommend his classes!” March 21, 2008.. Top qualities: Expert, Good Value, Creative
“WAPS invited Mark Berger to speak to our local membership on February 20th 2008. Mark came prepared to engage our membership on finding passive candidates on the internet. WAPS emphatically endorses Mark Berger for any seminars or webinars in your area. Mark knows his subject very well and the content of his presentations enabled our members to take several ideas and suggestions back to our desk. Mark is very patient and was willing to answer any question our membership had. Also, Mark is very much open to continue answering questions if our members are struggling with one of his techniques. WAPS is happy to endorse Mark Berger for your passive candidate recruiting needs on the internet. February 21, 2008, Terry Rohde, CPC, Engineering Recruiter, DES LLC
“From Day 1, Mark has demonstrated his tremendous knowledge of the universe in which he works --- the recruiting and sourcing world. His experience and keen assessment capabilities make him one of the best sources for guidance, especially when it comes to the myriad of tools and methods available on the market today. He is a true professional, and a pleasure to work with!” February 11, 2008
Anne Scofield, Vice President, Business Development, SGA
“Mark E. Berger has a very influential and charismatic personality and his online seminars have been a great help for me to do things better that I do every day. I am very impressed with his abilities and grasp of the subject within his domain and I would strongly recommend Mark E. Berger to everyone.” January 11, 2008
Asif Akhtar Nizami, Technical Recruiter, FSD Solutions
“Mark has written several articles on my blog (jimstroud.com) and worked with me on multiple projects. I respect his expertise in online recruiting and appreciate the value he brings to the industry.” January 11, 2008
Top qualities: Personable, Expert, Good Value
Jim Stroud is a Social Media Development Manager
“I have had the pleasure of working with Mark on numerous occasions. He has a comprehensive understanding of the keys to successful recruiting. Mark's clients clearly benefit from his experience and knowledge of the recruiting industry. I enjoy working with the clients he refers because they are focused, informed, and have a clear understanding of why technology is critical to their success.” November 13, 2007
Tammy Wirths, Account Executive, Sendouts
was with another company when working with Mark E. at Swat Recruiting
“I was introduced to Mark through a management seminar that our owner went to. He showed us all ways to gain access to information that is otherwise not for public eyes-- invaluable in our business! I think it is wonderful that he shares his technical knowledge with those of us who are less savvy in those areas.” November 13, 2007
Denise Gabbard, Search Consultant, GRN Brookpark
was with another company when working with Mark E. at Swat Recruiting
“In the volatile recruiting software industry, many customers are confused by all the choices & need help to assess their requirements and understand vendor options in a crowded market. I refer people who need assistance to Mark with confidence that he can provide unbiased, professional, and valuable guidance throughout the software evaluation process.” September 21, 2007
Sylvia Dahlby, Chief Executive Instigator, SmartSearch Online
“Mark is a consumate professional who is a very knowledgable recruiter, honest and forthright. Then as an owner of Berger-Nowlin, you were fair to all that worked for you, supported and tried to assist the team in anyway you could. It is a natural progression that Mark is in recruiter training. All new and struggling recruiters would only benefit and improve their success by working with Mark.” June 11, 2008
Kevin Fox, Site/Project Manager, Unisys / Berger Nowlin, Inc.
“Mark is a kind, capable and caring business owner and manager. I worked directly for Mark and have always respected him and his many abilities. Mark's AIRS knowledge and certification gave him some skills very few recruiters or business owners have. He has always been willing to mentor/train others to be more productive and to lead by example. I would gladly work for Mark again in the future.” March 5, 2008
Jane Bullington, recruiter, berger nowlin
“I have known Mark for pretty close to thirty years . Mark has truly made the leap from running a desk to running a company and finally to becoming the "go to guy" for the latest web techniques. The many years Mark has spent on the desk has given him a keen insight as to what recruiters are looking for in tools to make their job mre efficient. I look forward to reading Mark's comments and opinions in the Fordyce Letter as I know they are always right on and I highly recommend attending one of Marks webinars or in person sessions .” November 2, 2008
Ron Sunshine, Owner, ron sunshine associates…