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Topic: Talent Talk Cafe - Chat Transcript for Community Moving to Action Part 1: e asked - What happens if you build a recruitment strategy that begins by first establishing a deliberate community focus. This week we explored moving to action and integrating social media into your recruitment strategy: Setting expectations. Building a compelling case for internal support. Anticipating community management time requirements. Evaluating and reallocating resources to establish a foundation for success. Following is the Transcript from Talent Talk Café June 24 - Making a Case to Integrate Social Media Into Your Talent Strategy Susan Burns Hi everyone! Its time for Talent Talk Cafe! 3:00pm Susan Kang Nam Hello Susan ~ I am here to learn from you and everyone! 3:00pm Slouch Hey Susan, Sharyn, Chet and The Talent Hunter 3:01pm Susan Burns Our topic today is Moving to Action to integrated social media into your recruitment strategy 3:01pm Susan Burns Hi Jaosn, Susan, Sharyn, Chet, Talent Hunter and Dave! 3:01pm The Talent Hunter Hello Susan 3:01pm Chet Volpe I'm all ears... 3:01pm Susan Burns Hey Jason - can u move the chat to center so its bigger and easier to follow 3:01pm Slouch its in the center for me 3:02pm Chet Volpe me too 3:02pm Susan Burns got it - just refreshed and its there for me too - fab! 3:03pm Slouch try refreshing your screen 3:03pm Susan Kang Nam same here.. Susan Burns So in the last couple of weeks we defined what community is and what happens if u build a talent strategy beginning with a first intention of community 3:03pm Susan Burns The main challenge now is building internal support so there are resources - mostly time, to invest in building community 3:04pm Slouch Time is what you need Susan Burns Do we want to open this up by addressing the first part around setting expectations for time - how can you get support to allocated 10 hours a week to focus on community 3:05pm Susan Burns And, what is the value in doing that 3:06pm Slouch ask with a nice smile? 3:06pm Susan Burns That's a start Jason ;-) 3:06pm Susan Burns Let me ask another question - do people feel they already have the time to invest in building communiities? 3:07pm Joshua Letourneau do you mean 10 hrs of a 40-hr week? (my corp recruiter friends pull a 40 - anything over that is not incentivized) 3:07pm Susan Burns Hi Josh! Yes, to allocate time into the regular workweek 3:08pm Joshua Letourneau hi 3:08pm Chet Volpe time is the double edged sword - if you don't invest you don't get anything back, now it's just a matter of roi... 3:08pm Susan Burns So Chet - would you see value in reallocating 10 hrs/week to build a community that would produce an ROI to you down the road? Chet Volpe yes, but I might not start with 10 hours a week, maybe build to a comfort level that leaves a good balance of getting everything else done as well. 3:10pm Slouch I think you need about 10 hours a week to make it a worthwhile place for potential candidates to come 3:10pm Susan Kang Nam Curious to know - how would you measure that time well invested = hire? would 10 hours be enough? 3:11pm Slouch that time includes thining about it as well, not just working on it 3:11pm Chet Volpe Susan, do you have an example? 3:11pm Chet Volpe site that is 3:12pm Susan Burns Susan - thats the other part of the equation: 1 - what r your expectations....how soon do you want to see roi and 2 - what type of support can u get to cover off other work 3:12pm Susan Burns Chet - what r u looking for an example of - time invested to roi? 3:12pm Scott Godbey Susan it seems to me that roi would not happen immediately. Have you found that to be the case? 3:13pm Susan Burns Scott - absolutely - that 3:13pm MN Headhunter (a little late, sorry) I think the issue is who you are. If you are a big, known company brand management is a lot easier than if you are a little dude like me in Minneapolis 3:14pm Maren Hogan It seems that community has to valuable and to be valuable most companies look at it as having to be very broad brushed 3:14pm Susan Burns i'm getting delays and missing feeds - sorry 3:14pm Ben Gotkin Hey Susan! 3:14pm Chet Volpe yes, a social network site that is working for someone that has the time invested and is showing the roi. MN Headhunter General Mills by sheer volume of who goes to their site can get a community up and running in weeks to 2 months. for me, 6 months 3:15pm Maren Hogan so if they have to be broad to be useful (current definition not mine) then it's really asking a corp to take a leap of faith 3:15pm Susan Kang Nam I think it's getting that support you will need to cover off other work maybe a challenge and to get validation for spending time to build this community first hand.. 3:15pm Slouch Hi chet, I always point to wirelessJobs.com as a targeted community built by Dennis Smith. He makes placements from it 3:16pm Joshua Letourneau the notion of ROI is (in most cases) overblown as the return can often be as qualitative as quantitative (i.e. perceptions of the "employment brand") 3:16pm Susan Burns ok i'm back - some tech problems - Hi Ben, Paul and Maren 3:16pm Maren Hogan not only the decision makers but for an internal corp presence? current employees would have to be involved as well 3:16pm Slouch I know he's happy with the effort he puts and what he gets out 3:16pm Susan Burns Susan - that's exactly it! 10 hrs is really the min to invest in moving something forward 3:17pm Joshua Letourneau example: Facebook E&Y group (grew to ~5000 in a very short amount of time) 3:17pm Maren Hogan what does up and running mean though? Is it really a community? I've never been so I am honestly asking. . . 3:17pm Maren Hogan hi susan--paul, who doesn't know about that "aw shucks lil guy from mn?" 3:18pm Slouch I think that the time is a real issue because you can;t get immediate results - Takes time. but people start noticing right away and that is important too 3:18pm Susan Burns What are some of the "value" basis ideas that would get someone internal support to invest that 10 hours/week Josh today, E&Y Careers is pushing over 15k members 3:18pm Susan Burns And, set expectations for 6 months 3:19pm MN Headhunter Hey Maren, but that's my point the time it to took me to get here and the time Josh points out for E&Y is very different. It's easier for bigger companies 3:19pm Susan Burns Josh - how long did it take them to get to 15K 3:19pm Scott Godbey Well there are immediate benefits in terms of creating brand awareness. I don't think it's wise to underestimate what that can mean to business both short and long term 3:19pm Maren Hogan easier to set up but wondering how useful the comm is there--member number cannot be the bar? 3:19pm Ben Gotkin We are preparing to launch an alumni initiative here at McGladrey, one that will have benefits beyond just recruiting 3:19pm The Talent Hunter You have to have an identifiable brand and enough traffic to organize a successful presence, right? 3:20pm Susan Burns Maren - community will build overtime through nurturing 3:20pm MN Headhunter I look at a Best Buy with their 3,000,000 resumes last year. It should take little effort to get a community started 3:20pm Ben Gotkin This will be led by recruiting, but I've had to tell the recruiters involved that this will not be about recruiting at first 3:20pm Susan Burns Talent Hunter - exactly one of the benefits of pursuing a social strategy - it can be a brand equalizer 3:20pm MN Headhunter Ben, great call Susan Burns Ben - great point on setting expectations for the recruiters as well 3:21pm Ben Gotkin It will be about building community and delivering engaging content 3:21pm Ben Gotkin Benefits for recruiting, business development, etc is a by-product 3:21pm Maren Hogan Ben have you found that people are more open to that in the current economic times? 3:21pm MN Headhunter Ben, please as you guys get into this document it if you can share 3:21pm Joshua Letourneau susan, i don't really know - i think they're into it for a year now (but they grew to 2000+ members in about 48 hours . . . yeah, 48 hours!!!) 3:21pm Susan Burns Ben - how have you allocated support to free up recruters time to engage 3:21pm Slouch its not about recruiting at first. you are correct sir Susan Kang Nam Ben - that's true.. 3:21pm Maren Hogan I've had clients want to set up employer branding, retention intiatives and internal communities that are in the midst of a hiring freeze 3:21pm Susan Burns Josh - that's a great story 3:22pm Ben Gotkin Maren - not sure, but alumni programs are pretty standard in our industry, we are a late-comer 3:22pm Joshua Letourneau jeez, talk about "first mover" advantage! 3:22pm Scott Godbey It is in a way Jason. Recruiting is about building contacts that can be utilized later down the line. It's just not the immediate gratificaiton but nothing in recruiting is. 3:22pm Susan Burns Maren - so is that for internal communities and external 3:22pm Ben Gotkin Susan - We have a central team that will help, and will get help also from Marketing and the field Maren Hogan yep--completely closed to idea about 8 mos ago 3:22pm Susan Burns Ben - how many hours/week r u investing to build/develop communities 3:23pm Maren Hogan now clamoring for it. maybe $ and resources come from a different place? Not sure 3:23pm Slouch Chet, of course it is about Recruiting just you can't expect to hire anyone right away 3:23pm Scott Godbey Ben, think it's wise to involve marketing. Having community consistent with overall brand is crucial Susan Burns Maren - retention probably gets more than recruiting 3:23pm MN Headhunter I have seen the title "Community Manager" pop up recently at a few Minnesota companies. I am hoping that means they are thinking not only about this but having it be managed properly 3:23pm Ben Gotkin The alumni program is our #1 effort right now, I'll spend a bulk of my time on this in the coming months 3:23pm Susan Burns Re community managers - Check out Jermiah Owyang's blog w/ list of roles by company Maren Hogan Kind of? It's not a community but the interface at standoutjobs.com makes it feel like one 3:25pm Ben Gotkin A link? I'll probably have a link to the blog after we go live 3:25pm Joshua Letourneau yeah, great suggestion, susan - every brand impression with candidates should include a link 3:25pm Maren Hogan so that's a semi-yes Susan for clarity 3:25pm Slouch I don;t think you need a ton of people in a talent network, you just need good candidates who understand the value of what the community brings and over time you can set up that community to foster certain community participation which ultimately=hires Susan Burns Ben - yeah a link to even drive traffic to your blog 3:25pm Jason Gorham three words for you....seo, seo seo 3:26pm Jason Gorham for the blogs 3:26pm Susan Burns Jason - and overtime that community will attract more people through conversations and there will be organic growth 3:26pm Joshua Letourneau in my eyes, the real value of the community is the OD element - imagine the pot of gold you'd be sitting in in terms of talent market intel 3:26pm Susan Burns Hi Jason G 3:26pm MN Headhunter In the few ads I run I include blog, Rss feed and Twitter addresses 3:26pm Ben Gotkin I think we see our talent networks being much stronger at the college level. We do alot of early ID efforts that will drive in traffic to our community-building efforts 3:26pm Susan Burns SEO - absolutely! Another very cost effective way to drive traffic Jason Gorham hello 3:27pm MN Headhunter Ben, outside of your industry who does this well? Who else is doing this? 3:27pm Susan Burns So, if we go back to securing internal support - do people feel they can get what they need or are there obstacles 3:27pm Jason Gorham you can get a blog indexed quicker in a search engine than a typical website 3:27pm Ben Gotkin Paul - how are you using Twitter to build community? I showed it to my boss on Friday and he wasn't sure what to make of it 3:27pm Joshua Letourneau well, to steal from my (not) girlfriend Giovani of Ning . . . the point of the community is also viral expansion 3:27pm MN Headhunter Ben, it's not a bout building a community but participating in a general conversation 3:28pm MN Headhunter for me The Talent Hunter From a corporate perspective, I think this proposal would receive a lot of static 3:28pm MN Headhunter that builds followers, name recognition, awareness 3:28pm Joshua Letourneau just twitter out every update with a tinyurl back to the community/blog/social network 3:28pm Maren Hogan I heard the other day that it is less about content now than conversation, hmmmm 3:28pm Jason Gorham Correct static 3:28pm Susan Burns Ben - Twitter is a great example of joining the conversation first, moving to community and then engaging to get hires... 3:28pm MN Headhunter Talent Hunter yes, Ben who else is doing this that you know of? 3:28pm Jason Gorham it's all about value now 3:28pm Susan Burns Also re Twitter - its a biz conversation first before a recruiting conversation - 3:29pm Jason Gorham With so many sites...social networking etc how will you provide value? 3:29pm Susan Kang Nam resistance.. The Talent Hunter Of course, a lot depends on the resources available within an organization and their level of edge-y thinking 3:29pm MN Headhunter Josh, yes but many poeple get ornary with the links only. Too self promotional, not adding valued content 3:29pm Susan Kang Nam Jason G - that's what I am curious about as well. 3:29pm Ben Gotkin Paul - don't know of many, still bleeding edge 3:29pm Susan Burns Talent Hunter and Susan - what do us anticipate as the objections Jason Gorham If you build a community...site or recruiting drive...go with one idea 3:30pm The Talent Hunter resource allocation, afterall time equals money 3:30pm Susan Burns Jason - re noise w/ sites - the opp is in finding a niche and energizing it - and giving people a voice 3:30pm Jason Gorham and with that one idea drive around that 3:30pm Chet Volpe . 3:30pm Joshua Letourneau well, if the community is for recruiting, then the 'product' (job) better be HOT - people will reject a meatball sundae like a bad kidney! 3:30pm The Talent Hunter 25% of time spent on a new project equals 25% less expected performance of core competencies\ 3:30pm Jason Gorham if it's college what makes you difference? Maybe you go green, maybe you have ipods etc 3:30pm Susan Burns Talent Hunter - what would u need to deliver re ROI to get the investment time needed Jason Gorham roi = cost per hire 3:31pm Susan Kang Nam I just have value questions about it.. at the end of the day, it's the result.. so how to show it..etc.. 3:31pm Jason Gorham or employer of choice 3:31pm Joshua Letourneau susan, maybe i'm old school, but great recruiters and talent acquisition pros will MAKE TIME to do this as opposed to trade off other things, right? 3:31pm The Talent Hunter you would need evidence that it has worked in the past, or show a documented timeframe of ROI to even be considered a viable avenue, IMO 3:31pm Susan Burns Could roi also be future - time to hire, reduced advertising costs, higher quality.... Joshua Letourneau p.s. remember that the notion of return can be qualitative as well (not just quantitative) 3:32pm Susan Kang Nam Talent Hunter - agree 3:32pm Ben Gotkin ROI probably starts with #hits on your community site, time spent on site. It is challenging to track as a source though, ask Microsoft 3:32pm Maren Hogan I agree with that! I almost got "community time" yanked but finally, two months ago, we started seeing real results. I even took a pay cut to focus in on it. 3:32pm Susan Burns Josh - I think many will but I've also seen great recruiters that are pulled in so many directions they never get a block of quality time Susan Burns Maren - how long had u been investing time before seeing it tip to a plus 3:33pm Slouch Maren, did you take a pay cut before you started seeing results or after 3:33pm Susan Kang Nam Maren - really.. hmm. 3:34pm Susan Burns Talent Hunter - Paul can give u the ROI - 6 mo to hire via blog, 10 days via Twitter, 2 months via mySpace - did i remember that Paul? 3:34pm Maren Hogan it was over six months susan, maybe 7? I was learning too. Maren Hogan Before, like four months before. They lovin me now tho! 3:34pm The Talent Hunter for his sized organization...what is size and reach 3:34pm Susan Burns 6-7 months is not bad at all - how many hours/week? 3:35pm Maren Hogan oh the four months was how long before results I took the pay cust, to clarify 3:35pm Joshua Letourneau candidates go through periods of 'progression' (cold,warm,hot, etc.) . . . so the community is a way to maintain conversation with them 3:35pm Susan Burns Talent Hunter - can I call u TH during the chat ;-) Susan Burns Paul - r u still there? 3:35pm Maren Hogan probably (does blog writing count here?) >15 3:35pm The Talent Hunter absolutely...or confuse everyone and call me Mike 3:35pm The Talent Hunter 3:35pm Slouch Josh you are right. that's key 3:36pm Ben Gotkin Josh - BINGO! Our blog and our alumni network will serve that very purpose 3:36pm Susan Burns Josh - YES!!! absolutely - community ensures people stay warm and can then be moved to hot much more quickly 3:36pm Susan Burns Thanks Mike! he Talent Hunter i believe that creating an online community is a lot easier and quite possibly more effective from a TPR standpoint than from a corporate standpoint 3:36pm Susan Kang Nam Josh - definitely 3:37pm Maren Hogan if you work contract (which do) there is also the roll-off time to consider 3:37pm Slouch not everyone is in a position to change jobs now and having a place you can stay in touch and deliver a message while letting them network is a good thing 3:37pm Susan Kang Nam TB (Mike) - TPR? sorry getting use to all this lingo.. 3:37pm Susan Burns Mike - is i was a corp recruiter today its would be one of my top 3 prioritse and would move resources to make it happen 3:37pm Slouch third party recruiter 3:37pm Joshua Letourneau sometimes a warm candidate can get hot when they read a success story - my thought on communities is that they can serve as subtle infomercials 3:37pm Susan Kang Nam I meant TH (Mike) 3:38pm Maren Hogan which is why RSS feeds WITH VALUE are awesome (part of comm, not as replacement) 3:38pm Susan Burns Oh - there were lots of typos in that last note ;-( 3:38pm Susan Kang Nam Jason - thanks 3:38pm Susan Burns Josh - yes, that and the viral aspects build a lot of momentum 3:38pm Maren Hogan We gotcha SusanB 3:38pm Joshua Letourneau every marketer i know LOVES an infomercial - it's crazy people like us telling us that we can be rich and lose a bunch of weight just like them 3:38pm Susan Kang Nam lol 3:39pm Joshua Letourneau ok, i went off on a tangent - sorry! 3:39pm Susan Burns Depending on your company's brand there is lots of value that could even extend beyond recruiting which in turn adds more value to the recruiting team 3:39pm The Talent Hunter susan-i agree that it is the wave of the future, but i also think that an Amarr Garage Doors will have much less success than a Lowe's Home Improvement 3:39pm Susan Burns Josh - maybe there's a "will it blend" for recruitment! 3:39pm The Talent Hunter 3:40pm Joshua Letourneau an infomercial probably isn't the best analogy . . . but there is something there we could use 3:40pm MN Headhunter I think the reason a TPR can do this is we do not need permsission from so many layers of mgmt. But time to build community is much less I expect for a large company 3:40pm Susan Burns Mike - depends on what Amarr Garage Doors brings to the table? The other big key - what differentiaties...what adds value...what engages...what energizes 3:41pm Maren Hogan Wow, it's almost over and we haven't talked about alcohol once. We are maturing! 3:41pm The Talent Hunter MN - agreed 100% Ben Gotkin Alot of podcasts and corporate videos are 'infomercial-like' 3:42pm Susan Burns That's the part art part science question of community - What do people want, who is talking to them, who is engaging them in conversation - listenting to them Susan Burns Also, many big companies have stubbed their toes while testing the waters - they try to PR it or marketize it and its bit back 3:44pm Joshua Letourneau the 'smaller' niche org (like Amarr) may wind up the winner here . . . perhaps not on quantity of hires, but perhaps better match or QOH.?. that would be a great case study 3:44pm Maren Hogan you know, I just really disagree with that. I think the true (forgive the namby pambyness of the word) "essence" of community has to be created by someone passionate about it MN Headhunter . 3:45pm Maren Hogan And whether it's a one man shop, or small business or large corp, the time to engage is the same there just might be less people to do it 3:45pm Susan Burns WalMart had their PR agency - Edelman - writing their blog - bad idea, esp when its not done so visibly 3:45pm Joshua Letourneau maren, good point. and i could be wrong here, but one thing i've observed about today's 'community' versus those of the late 90s' are about user empowerment 3:45pm Maren Hogan sorry this is kind of directed at Paul because I sort of feel your pain. I think you are right in that the communty stuff (website, chat function , blah, blah, print junk) is 3:46pm Ben Gotkin Walmart used a PR agency? too funny 3:46pm Joshua Letourneau giving 'them' the ability to create content, upload video, etc. (i.e. youtube.com/dunkindonuts) 3:46pm Maren Hogan easier to set up but the engagement will take the same amount of time 3:46pm Maren Hogan and I think engagement is far more a community element than the "stuff" 3:46pm Susan Burns Ben - yes - google Edelman and Wal-Mart - wasn't a pretty site. They've learned and are now letting employees blog 3:47pm MN Headhunter Yeah, I think about how much time I have put in for me and wonder if I did it for someone else what kind of footprint that could be 3:47pm Joshua Letourneau sorry, i meant today's communities are more about user empowerment than simply the creators 3:47pm Joshua Letourneau it's like handing someone a paint brush as they walk into the sistine chapel 3:47pm Susan Burns Josh - YES, and its those companies that will listen and allow people to be heard that will win 3:48pm Slouch MN, your efforts here make a huge difference 3:48pm Susan Burns Oh, I like the paint brush analogy 3:48pm Maren Hogan yeah but if there were someone else doing the "work-work" stuff and you did the comm building and socnet stuff, it would seem like less but you have to do it all so it feels like more 3:48pm MN Headhunter What I mean is, if in the beginning I was spending 15 hours or more for my little brand. What 15 hours could do for a big company. I have to think a Best Buy would have huge returns 3:48pm The Talent Hunter MN - i agree with that 3:48pm Slouch im not retracting my statement 3:48pm MN Headhunter Jason, I appreicate that. And this is an examnple of how a community should be. How it should start, evolve, content, etc The Talent Hunter they have the established brand and customer base 3:49pm Maren Hogan Of course they would, it's becoming increasingly valuable AND that's why so many people are hiring social media managers or the other thing you said earlier comm mgrs 3:49pm Joshua Letourneau paul, i agree - a huge brand isn't starting from ground zero, so 'velocity' is easier to achieve 3:49pm MN Headhunter absolutely 3:49pm Ben Gotkin Paul - You bring up an interesting point. So few large organizations have embraced this, but they would probably stand to benefit the most if done correctly. 3:49pm Susan Burns So have we made any headway in helping to create a compelling case to get time/resources and set expectations for an ROI? 3:49pm MN Headhunter I have always believed it harder to start with no reputation than it is a good/bad pone 3:49pm Maren Hogan oops gotta go, read transcript later! thanks everyone! 3:49pm Joshua Letourneau p.s. hey, there could be some major liability with the larger brands too, though 3:50pm Susan Burns Thanks Maren - great contribution as always! 3:50pm Susan Burns Josh - there is risk but more if they don 3:50pm MN Headhunter Josh, yes and I do get that barrier 3:50pm Joshua Letourneau there are a lot of people that love to 'bash' an employment brand with the huge retailers (i.e. walmart) 3:50pm Susan Burns oops - more if they don't engage - then someone else creates their brand Susan Kang Nam Joshua - how so? 3:50pm MN Headhunter But they will anyway so why not put out the good stuff to combat it 3:51pm Susan Burns The "talk" will happen with or without the company's involveent but without they are sure to lose Joshua Letourneau p.s. i agree with paul that the larger brands have immense advantage in the early stages 3:51pm Ben Gotkin very true Susan 3:51pm The Talent Hunter Josh - i can see the community backfire, people going ther to slam the company...at that scale it would need to be actively monitored 3:51pm Susan Burns At least if they "play" they can share their story and if done authentically over time it will quite the other voices 3:51pm MN Headhunter I think it is worth the risk 3:51pm MN Headhunter should not shock anyone I said that Susan Burns Additionally, the community will help to quiet the disconnected - again, if the company is acting authentically 3:52pm Joshua Letourneau susan kang name: WalmartSucks.org 3:52pm Ben Gotkin I was very encouraged at our firm recently when our Marketing director said that he would be OK with some negative comments on the blog, as long as they are not damaging or inaccurate usan Kang Nam Joshua - got it! 3:52pm MN Headhunter I think to engage and address them is a good thing 3:52pm Susan Burns Josh - #2 facebook fan site for Deloitte is "Deloitte is why I drink" - it was #1 but is now #2 becuz Deloitte started to get more involved 3:53pm MN Headhunter but not some PR release person but an actual person who is passionate about the company Susan Burns Ben - that's great! 3:53pm Ben Gotkin We'll address and engage regardless, but you have to moderate some to prevent unnecessary bashing 3:53pm Joshua Letourneau paul, great point - i just read an article about starbucks blowing it because they didn't respond and engage! 3:53pm Ben Gotkin Susan - that's my favorite Deloitte site ;-) 3:53pm Susan Burns Was that with their new MyStarbucks site to collect feedback? 3:54pm MN Headhunter Seems to me people say bad things whenever they can. Might as well pu some good stuff out there too Susan Burns Ben - I thought it would be ;-) 3:54pm Joshua Letourneau susan, i need to check that out - will be back to your email later 3:54pm MN Headhunter Ben, will you be in Mpls again? 3:54pm Ben Gotkin Was just there last week for a quick in-out 3:54pm MN Headhunter where's the love/ 3:55pm MN Headhunter ? 3:55pm Ben Gotkin Hopefully next time I'll have more of a chance to get out 3:55pm Slouch lol 3:55pm Slouch lets not go there 3:55pm The Talent Hunter hmmm 3:55pm MN Headhunter (my bad) 3:55pm Susan Burns Question for all of you about next Chat unity site - sound good? 3:56pm Susan Kang Nam ouch.. 3:56pm The Talent Hunter definitely 3:57pm MN Headhunter A case study would help and something others can look at 3:57pm Ben Gotkin Anyway, Paul - one of our Mlps recruiters was at your last Roundtable, said he had a great time 3:57pm Susan Kang Nam sounds good Susan & Jason... 3:57pm Ben Gotkin Susan - sounds good 3:57pm Susan Burns Paul - lets talk about the case study - r u around later today? 3:57pm Slouch Susan, we can send out details late or early this week about where and when 3:57pm Susan Kang Nam I would be interested in reading more case studies - agree with MN 3:57pm Slouch we can build a private talent community and I can let a targeted group of people know about it all in the same industry 3:57pm Susan Burns Absolutely Jason - lets figure out the details and then we can send all the info 3:57pm Slouch we can develop it over time and I can bring real orders into it 3:58pm MN Headhunter today, no. But if you are up for a later night conversation, yes. 3:58pm Slouch to be filled of course 3:58pm Susan Burns Paul - perfect - I'll give u a buzz 3:58pm MN Headhunter Susan, you sure you want to chat with me 2 days in a row? 3:58pm Susan Burns Sounds great Jason! 3:58pm Susan Kang Nam For Defense - I would recommend Bill Murphy highly... 3:58pm Susan Burns Paul - I'll take the risk! 3:59pm N Headhunter you are a saint 3:59pm…; Added by Susan Burns to Talent Synchronicity at 5:33pm on June 24, 2008

Blog Post: How to Set Up a Recruitment Business: The Davidson Gray eBook: Welcome to my eBook. As you’re taking the time out to read my guide on how to set up and build your own recruitment business, I don’t think that it’s a huge assumption to make that you are…; Added by Rhys Jones at 8:33am on September 29, 2020

Topic: Transcript - Talent Talk Cafe: Week of Nov 17th - Jerry Albright on Agency Recruitment Best Practies and Processes: st the tip of the Chat and I'm sure we'll see this continue in December! Following is an overview of Jerry's topic and the Chat transcript. You can also find Jerry online HERE! 3:03pm Susan Burns It all yours Jerry! 3:03pm Maren Hogan Let's hear it for the boy 3:03pm Jerry Albright thanks! 3:03pm Susan Burns (hi Pam! hi Josh - long time Josh!) 3:03pm Julia Stone clap, clap, whistle 3:03pm Jerry Albright That makes me laugh Maren! 3:03pm Joshua Letourneau hi, susan :) 3:03pm Maren Hogan :) 3:04pm Susan Burns Hey roomie! 3:04pm Jerry Albright I see the crowd is getting just a bit bigger each time with TTC. 3:04pm Jerry Albright Today's theme is Agency Recruiting 3:04pm Kondalarao :-) 3:04pm Jerry Albright I'm not an expert in social media, ATS, branding or the other stuff. 3:05pm Jerry Albright and today I'm just going to throw out some of the principals I personally stick with. 3:05pm Jerry Albright i wish I could type faster! 3:05pm Jerry Albright let me dig one up here for you... 3:06pm Jerry Albright 11. If your client is within a days drive – you MUST meet them personally. 3:06pm Jerry Albright These are just random by the way - you can tell that's number 11. 3:06pm Jerry Albright Do you visit your clients? 3:06pm Susan Burns I like that Jerry! We understimate the f2f time 3:06pm Maren Hogan Do you always have to bring food? Seems like vendoras always bring food 3:07pm Julia Stone absofreakinlulely 3:07pm Jerry Albright I never do. 3:07pm Jerry Albright should I? 3:07pm Maren Hogan around christmas it starts to irritate me 3:07pm Joshua Letourneau i bring rubber frogs - seriously :) well, jelly ones 3:07pm A Lonnie McRorey what are vendoras? 3:07pm Susan Burns Food is good - calculators are bad! 3:07pm Maren Hogan I don't know. Tell me, if I am a brands new recruiter (:) what is the ONE process I should have in place 3:07pm Maren Hogan vendoras=vendors 3:07pm Jerry Albright OK. So I personally believe you should meet absolutely EVERY client that gives you a job order. 3:07pm Joshua Letourneau they're good for stress relief and adults are kinesthetic (give 'em somethin to play with and their brain fires more) :) 3:08pm Jerry Albright I've lost the crowd already Susan............ 3:08pm Julia Stone I'm with you 3:08pm Maren Hogan before or after they've given you the order Jerry? 3:08pm Sue so am I 3:08pm Susan Burns I think u got em rolling on ideas Jerry! 3:08pm A Lonnie McRorey Close to the Spanish of Vendedoras 3:08pm Carol Thornton go ahead! 3:08pm Julia Stone ribbit, stay focused Lonnie 3:08pm Jerry Albright I go after I take the order. It's part of my process. 3:08pm Jerry Albright If they won't make time to see me.... 3:09pm Sue suppose they don't want to meet w/u 3:09pm Jerry Albright then I'm doubting they will make time to work with me 3:09pm Carol Thornton What if your clients are all over the country and F2F is not an option? 3:09pm Jerry Albright it really is that simple Sue. Really. 3:09pm Julia Stone I agree with Jerry. I have another one too, can I add? 3:09pm Jerry Albright Good point Carol. 3:09pm Susan Burns Jerry - how do u frame the purpose of the meeting 3:10pm Jerry Albright I just let them know that since I'll be representing them I would like to get to know them better. 3:10pm Joshua Letourneau can i interject a fringe idea? a small one . .. 3:10pm Susan Burns So prupose is tied to outome - as we get to know each other I can represent your brand better? 3:10pm pam claughton It's to their benefit to meet with you as you'll get a better sense of their environment. 3:10pm Susan Burns Josh - yes Julia - yes!! 3:10pm Julia Stone I have a 3 page intake form that I use during my initial meeting, I pick & choose. 3:11pm Jerry Albright Oh I forgot. 3:11pm Sue that is a good idea intake form 3:11pm Susan Burns pick and choose questions to ask or clients to take on 3:11pm Joshua Letourneau can you bring a flip cam and interview some 'co-workers' to help give the candidate a better feel of the culture/environment? 3:11pm Jerry Albright The term is "intake" now.....sorry PC Cops - I'll never say "job order" again....my bad 3:11pm pam claughton Josh, that's a fun idea! 3:11pm Susan Burns great idea Josh - don't forget the release form ;-) 3:11pm Julia Stone I bring an intake form to ask questions about teh company, culture, management style, etc 3:11pm Julia Stone One time, I asked what is your management style, he said...What's the right answer? 3:11pm Joshua Letourneau i'd probably wind up in jail :) 3:12pm Jerry Albright My goal in meeting my client is to get to know HIM or HER better. 3:12pm Susan Burns Jerry - how often do clients decline the meeting and what are the reasons they give 3:12pm Jerry Albright They rarely do. I'll admit - some meetings are short. 3:13pm Dean Lockett and to get face time with the watchdog of the office - get them to recognize you 3:13pm Jerry Albright But any client serious about hiring would certainly want to meet don't you think? 3:13pm Cathy McCullough do you "benchmark" resumes? I find that helps because it turns the conversation from a wish list to a reality check 3:13pm Maren Hogan Do you think that it shows something about your commitment to go there even for a ten minute meeting? 3:13pm Jerry Albright as I've mentioned before - I show up early and hang out in the cozy lobby seeing whose coming and going. 3:13pm Joshua Letourneau 'cuz they're working with 10 other firms on a vendor list or thorugh an online VMS . . . so they just want tons of resumes 3:13pm Susan Burns I agree - I always appreciate it from vendors - esp if they are focused and have a purpose & intention that will benefit the biz 3:13pm Jerry Albright Maren - yes. 3:13pm Dean Lockett Suggest team meetings if possible - I've gotten that on a first meet before 3:14pm Jerry Albright Your a heavy hitter Dean. 3:14pm Jerry Albright This is a fact: 3:14pm pam claughton I think they take you more seriously too if they invest a little time to meet with you. Shows you that they want to get the job filled. 3:14pm Susan Burns Quick interruption - can someone with IE please copy the chat stream at the end so I can paste the Chat in the Forum - Thanks! 3:14pm Julia Stone if I don't understand the culture & get to see the place, how can I possibly place the right person. I am not a magician. At least not professionally 3:14pm Jerry Albright If a client does not want to meet you - then they do not value you or your time. 3:15pm Joshua Letourneau jer, that's when you pull a D-Trump on 'em 3:15pm Gregg Alper how would you gauge who is serious and who isn't with clients not in your area that you can't meet? 3:15pm Susan Burns Ideally this investemtn in the beginning should return more "right-fit" candidates so its a good investment of time 3:15pm A Lonnie McRorey Jerry do you focus on the painful spots from the get go? 3:15pm pam claughton If they move into new space, good idea to go back in for a visit too. 3:15pm Jerry Albright Let's go with Gregg's Q here. 3:15pm Carol Thornton I can't meet with my clients so I talk to them about where they have gotten good people from in the past. This gives me a culture idea 3:15pm Julia Stone Julia's rule...I don't like to work with anyone who won't give me their cell phone number. 3:15pm Jerry Albright OK. Gregg you work long distance clients? 3:15pm pam claughton Julia, that's interesting, how did that come about? 3:15pm Dean Lockett In your meeting with HM, let them know you are looking for a sponsor to intro you to other HM's AFTER you've taken care of the person ur meeting with of course 3:16pm Susan Burns Gregg - maybe a Skype meeting if an alternative to close the distance or at least a conf call 3:16pm Gregg Alper yes. i am on east coast, some clients on the west. 3:16pm Jerry Albright If that's the case you can still gauge whether they value your time or not. 3:16pm Gregg Alper thats a good idea 3:16pm Jerry Albright Gregg - ask them to call you back. 3:16pmpam claughton You can often tell how serious they are too by how they respond to your initial submissions 3:16pm Julia Stone Well, they want us to spend 2-3 weeks worth of time with the possiblity of no pay at the end. I want to see if they are going to put any skin in the game 3:16pm Joshua Letourneau if you super-niche yourself, you can still work a large geography range . . . but i always try (at some point) to physically meet 3:17pm Dean Lockett www.gotomeeting.com might be an option 3:17pm Gregg Alper like what kind of niche Joshua? 3:17pm Jerry Albright But just how far away would a client have to be to think you wouldn't want to meet them? 3:17pm Joshua Letourneau for me, i spend most search time in a small engineering area where the candidate pool is finite 3:17pm Carol Thornton I'm in ATL and my clients are in Chicago, Dallas, Philly, etc 3:17pm pam claughton A friend of mine works the Boston area but lives in Upstate NY and she visits all her Boston clients, a 4 hour drive at least. 3:18pm Carol Thornton too far to drive 3:18pm Jerry Albright It would show them alot if you flew in 3:18pm Joshua Letourneau gregg, perhaps opto-electronics engineering or something along those lines (and then you can branch out to operational roles around that niche as well) 3:18pm Susan Burns Carol - is it worth the investment to do a quarterly touch base with past, current and prospective clients. Is there enough in each market? 3:18pm Shannon Myers Conferences are a good place to at least meet your clients. 3:18pm Jerry Albright seriously. what's $500 when you think about a 20K fee? 3:19pm Jerry Albright I wouldn't do it every time Carol. 3:19pm Julia Stone I met a client in ATL at a conference in sept, it was extremely helpful in moving us to the next level 3:19pm Carol Thornton true, but usually one client in each location 3:19pm Jerry Albright but I'd certainly meet every client who hired from me - regardless of location. 3:19pm Joshua Letourneau jer, a small co-tainer up front can help offset that as well (a $1k engagement fee or something along those lines) 3:19pm Carol Thornton I staff for managers and execs within the staffing industry so my clients are spread out 3:20pm Jerry Albright that might work. it's not my style though. 3:20pm Susan Burns Is an online meeting as valuable - can you close the virtual distance and get the same results? 3:20pm Jerry Albright I have no idea. 3:20pm Susan Burns Lets keep in mind being green too - maybe there's a way to leverage the idea of virutal? 3:20pm Julia Stone no, i don't hink so susan, it might be better than a call, but ti might just be a pain to them if they don't have a set up to do it 3:20pm Jerry Albright anything that moves your relationship forward is a good idea. 3:20pm Maren Hogan I think it's like being a good writer or having a skill, some people can do the virtual thing and others hate it 3:20pm Joshua Letourneau i've tried that, susan - but it's not the same as doing body shots with HR :) 3:20pm Maren Hogan The actual skill lies in being able to make others feel comfortable 3:21pm Gregg Alper thats not bad. i have mostly been IT and looking at other fields to focus more on one niche area 3:21pm Jerry Albright Ready for the next Random Principal? 3:21pm Carol Thornton yes 3:21pm Jerry Albright OK. Just a sec. 3:21pm Susan Burns Give us #10 Jerry!! 3:22pm Jerry Albright 14. Remove Caller ID from your phone. 3:22pm pam claughton Really, why? 3:22pm Julia Stone incoming or outgoing jer? 3:22pm pam claughton I love my caller ID :) 3:22pm Jerry Albright I want to receive each call with the same enthusiasm 3:22pm Jerry Albright incoming Julia. 3:23pm Maren Hogan #15 don't give your cousin your work phone number 3:23pm Julia Stone if that is the goal, might I also suggest standing up when you answer calls or make them? 3:23pm Jerry Albright Sure. 3:23pm Julia Stone I suggest you stand up when making calls 3:23pm Jerry Albright That's funny. 3:23pm pam claughton I think I'm a techie geek...I like knowing whose calling in. 3:24pm Cathy McCullough Also, you should consider shutting down IM and email when making recruiting calls. 3:24pm Jerry Albright so OK then - stick with your caller ID. 3:24pm Shannon Myers I would have trouble with that as well 3:24pm Julia Stone agreed cathy, I turn of my monitor 3:24pm pam claughton that's a good suggestion....email can be distracting 3:24pm Jerry Albright I take every call if I am in. No matter what. 3:25pm Jerry Albright 12. Do not assume anything – like an unemployed person can start right away or “any reasonable offer” will be accepted. Have the discussion with every person – every time. 3:25pm pam claughton twhirl is the most distracting thing on my desktop...have to shut it down often 3:25pm Susan Burns Jerry - is there something thats driving #12 - what has been your experience and is it shifting with the economy and hosing market?? 3:26pm Julia Stone wow, insightful jerry. I have learned that there is no such thing as overcommunicating, but I just learned it this year 3:26pm Susan Burns oops- housing! althouh we are all getting hosed!! 3:26pm pam claughton #12 is the most critical thing. you need to know everything and anything can change from day to day. 3:26pm Jerry Albright Assumptions kills us every time. 3:26pm Joshua Letourneau "has anything changed?" is the question that has to be asked each and every conversation . .. to the point they're telling you "No" before you even ask 3:26pm Susan Burns Pam - how often do you follow-up to make sure the candidate is still on track with agreements? 3:26pm Jerry Albright no Josh. not "has" anything changed. 3:27pm pam claughton every time I talk to them, even it's daily. 3:27pm Jerry Albright it is "WHAT HAS CHANGED" and then be quiet....... 3:27pm Joshua Letourneau touche - i like that 3:27pm Jerry Albright huuuuuuuge difference there. 3:27pm pam claughton especially if they're a good candidate, an offer in hand can change their notion of what they now want. 3:27pm Dean Lockett who,what,where,when,how, why - all open end starters 3:27pm A Lonnie McRorey Powerful 3:27pm Jerry Albright but "has" anything changed is Far better than..... 3:27pm Jerry Albright "Nothing's changed, right?....." 3:28pm Joshua Letourneau the point is, "ask" and be cognizant that things do, in fact, change - i don't know if there are perfect questions for every candidate . .. but i agree with "what's changed?" 3:28pm Jerry Albright pretty heavy indeed. 3:28pm pam claughton Or they may have gotten a raise, and that can impact what you need to close them on. 3:29pm Dean Lockett Or their company just filed Chap 11 - happened to meX-( 3:29pm Jerry Albright 28. Before you extend an offer to your candidate – take 1 hour and do something else. 3:29pm pam claughton More common, in this market, since the last time you spoke even if its just a few days, they may now be unemployed. Several of my candidates were laid off this week! 3:29pm Jerry Albright 28. Before you extend an offer to your candidate – take 1 hour and do something else. 3:29pm Susan Burns i would imagine as well that with the current economic climate any new news could make them more skittish about making a move 3:30pm pam claughton Yes, Susan that is very true too. 3:30pm Joshua Letourneau susan, Bingo - that's my situation 3:30pm Joshua Letourneau especially clients that insist on relo for all roles 3:30pm Susan Burns noone wants to be the new kid on the block unless they are currently unemployed 3:30pm pam claughton I had someone cancel an in-house interview today because he didn't want to jeopardize his current contract situation. 3:30pm Shannon Myers Jer - 1 hour to do? 3:31pm pam claughton very strange market indeed. 3:31pm Susan Burns THanks Shanon - keep us focused! 3:31pm Jerry Albright Shannon - reflect 3:31pm Jerry Albright I remember my first offer. I was SO excited. I was going to just hop on the phone with the candidate! 3:31pm Gregg Alper i've had that. recently had a guy not want to pursue a spot that was a 2 year project because of his concerns and would rather finish out the current project that ends next month and then figure things out. to me that is crazy 3:31pm Maren Hogan So ";Do you have any spare change?" would be what. . .wrong? 3:31pm Jerry Albright my mentor said - HEY! Wait a minute! 3:32pm Dean Lockett review notes, bounce it off someone else, might catch something there u missed? 3:32pm Jerry Albright could be anything. 3:32pm pam claughton Gregg, I agree, my guy had a similar mindset. Nutty. 3:32pm Jerry Albright how about just enjoying what you have in your hand! 3:32pm Susan Burns Jerry - do you tend to alter anything in your offer approach given the current biz climate? 3:32pm Jerry Albright no. 3:32pm Jerry Albright not really. 3:32pm Dean Lockett I do that after offer signed and person shows up to the dance ;-) 3:32pm pam claughton Jerry, would you advise calling to pre-close at that point? 3:33pm Jerry Albright What do you mean Pam? 3:33pm pam claughton Well you said wait an hour...am assuming you've already pre-closed, but maybe not everyone here does that as a matter fo course before extending? 3:34pm Eric Gilson Shouldn't your candidate be pre-closed well in advance to this 3:34pm Dean Lockett Whole nuther chat could be applied to "pre-close" 3:34pm pam claughton Yes, Eric they should be, but this is where many new recruiters skip the crucial step i ntheir excitement. 3:34pm Jerry Albright They should have been closed on "let's go get an offer you'll accept" prior 3:34pm Rayanne you should always pre-close..., ie; "what would it take to land you?" 3:35pm Rayanne "hav you thought about a counter-offer?" 3:35pm Jerry Albright Usually your candidate and you have been working on "the things that need to be there" in advance. 3:35pm Dean Lockett what does your spose think about this oppty? 3:35pm Eric Gilson We don't present offers unless we are sure it is going to be accepted 3:35pm Joshua Letourneau i like to say, "so you're looking for 250 . . . but will take 30k, right?" :P don't try that at home 3:35pm Dean Lockett spouse ...sorry 3:35pm Jerry Albright correct Eric. 3:35pm Jim - medXcentral @eric... isn't that the point of Pre or test closing? 3:35pm Jim - medXcentral to be sure... 3:35pm Susan Burns Dean - very important - and that should be checked early and often. Have seen it kill mamy a deal late in the process 3:35pm pam claughton Yes, I don't like surprises...I pre-close more than once generally because things are fluid and often changing. 3:35pm Eric Gilson yes 3:35pm Rayanne "would you say no to...?" 3:36pm Jerry Albright What I hate is when the HR dept offers them the job directly and says "let us know within 5 days!" 3:36pm Julia Stone one of Julia's favorites: Can I accept the offer on your behalf ? 3:36pm Rayanne hate that too 3:36pm pam claughton Yes, I hate that. 3:36pm Eric Gilson We don't let our clients present the offer 3:36pm Eric Gilson That is what we do 3:36pm Shannon Myers I ask that one too Julia 3:36pm Rayanne I ate an HR dept that changes the comp offered... 3:36pm Dean Lockett that's part of pre-close with HR, but still happens 3:36pm Rayanne *hate 3:36pm pam claughton I always have them call the client to accept directly with them...seems more binding and they both love it. 3:36pm Joshua Letourneau yeah, HR sometimes wants to "stick to their process" (the same one that leads to 20% fallouts for them) 3:37pm Jerry Albright Eric - there's always a rogue HR member out there - be careful! 3:37pm Susan Burns So its ok for acceptance to go directly to the client but not for client to extend the offer - logic?? 3:37pm Eric Gilson exactly Josh 3:37pm Rayanne true 3:37pm Jerry Albright Susan 3:37pm Joshua Letourneau i'm just playing :) but I run into that like everyone else sometimes 3:37pm Susan Burns Hey - careful about that HR thing ;-) 3:37pm Jerry Albright offer extension is sales. 3:37pm Shannon Myers One firm I worked with did offer with candidate then conferenced in HR to do official acceptance 3:37pm Jerry Albright HR is not typically a "closer" 3:37pm pam claughton Susan it's a control thing. They accept with me, and then with the clinet. If the client extends, too many things can go wrong as they don't close as well as we do. 3:37pm Susan Burns But are u dealing with HR generalist or with Recruiters? 3:37pm Jerry Albright they leave it quite open actually.....:( 3:38pm pam claughton it varies 3:38pm Eric Gilson Success is more likely when the driver of the process has a vested interest in the deal 3:38pm Susan Burns oh this is painful to hear! I gues I've been lucky to have very good recruiters working with me! 3:38pm Maren Hogan whoa go new guy! 3:39pm Joshua Letourneau a great trainer once told me that HR relies on us to use our own process - it's the only way we should take on the search with any degree of comfort (i.e. anything less is not an A+ assignment) 3:39pm pam claughton Susan, it's also what the client is paying us to do. 3:39pm Rayanne You can head off mos tof these problems by keeping open communication 3:39pm Rayanne maybe even have the negotiation and offer process mentioned in your contract or proposal 3:39pm Susan Burns Pam - if its in the SLA i agree 3:39pm Rayanne true, Josh 3:40pm Jerry Albright OK. So where are we? 3:40pm Dean Lockett what's lucky #13 Jer? 3:40pm Jerry Albright I skip that number 3:40pm Susan Burns Just to provide an laternate view - I have worked with TPR with great success but it was the internal recruiter that extended the offer - it forms an important bond at the beginning 3:40pm Rayanne good 3:40pm Dean Lockett face ur fears ;-) 3:41pm Jerry Albright that's one of my random principals Dean. 3:41pm Jerry Albright but we don't have time for it today. 3:41pm Joshua Letourneau agreed, susan - this does work with good communication. i couldn't agree more (to pam's point of pre-closing) 3:41pm Dean Lockett that is #13 isn't it? 3:41pm Jerry Albright let's do this one......... 3:41pm Susan Burns ANd Josh - agree that if it not a skilled corp recruiter then the TPR should extend 3:42pm Jerry Albright 25. Our job is not “social work”. If you’re in this profession to primarily “help people” you’re in the wrong field. Sorry :( 3:42pm Joshua Letourneau susan, we're control freaks :P 3:42pm Susan Burns and so are we '-) 3:42pm Rayanne no social work for me 3:42pm pam claughton Susan, agree it can work as long as there's communication and we know what the offer will be and can still pre-close. 3:42pm Rayanne communication is the key Pam 3:42pm Susan Burns Jerry - more info please 3:42pm Rayanne ' 3:43pm Dean Lockett Social doesn't pay the bills, like Social Security :-0 3:43pm Jerry Albright You need to keep your "emotions" off your desk. 3:43pm Eric Gilson absolutely 3:43pm Rayanne Passion is part of this job, though 3:43pm Jerry Albright We're not here to "help people find better jobs". 3:43pm Joshua Letourneau i get satisfaction from "helping people" and changing lives . . . but to your point, i can't help 'everyone' 3:43pm Jerry Albright Oh Rayanne - I'm certainly passionate. 3:43pm Rayanne I know that 3:43pm pam claughton Jerry, true you can't get too vested in any one outcome 3:44pm Eric Gilson How do you know if you are changing their lives for the better? 3:44pm Rayanne but I have certainly become too attached to candidates in the past 3:44pm Joshua Letourneau Eric, great question :) it's all perception, right!!? 3:44pm Susan Burns aren't u also trying to "sell" a better opp? Isn't that part of the pitch? So, I ask - is it authentic and sincere? 3:44pm Jerry Albright There are better jobs. 3:45pm Susan Kang Nam Eric - great question 3:45pm Eric Gilson I look at it as offering them an opportunity 3:45pm Rayanne If it is the right candidate, it isn 3:45pm pam claughton Susan, I think it has to be. 3:45pm Susan Burns Eric - only they can determine that 3:45pm Julia Stone You are being paid to find the best possible person for the job, unless the candidates are paying you 3:45pm Rayanne isn't a "sell" 3:45pm Joshua Letourneau sometimes you absolutely know when you're improving their lives (like when they're close to shooting their current mgr) 3:45pm Eric Gilson Right, so I don't go about my workday thinking I am helping or hurting anyone 3:45pm Jerry Albright Hold on a minute here... 3:45pm Eric Gilson I am just an information broker 3:45pm Joshua Letourneau other times, it's a money play and they know they might make trade-offs for more $$$ (like more travel, longer hrs, etc.) 3:45pm Jerry Albright I'm not saying the people don't benefit. 3:46pm Jerry Albright Of course they do. 3:46pm Rayanne I think of it as bringing all the pieces together 3:46pm pam claughton There's a fine line between pushing someone and showing them, giving them information to see that this role offers what they want. 3:46pm Rayanne When you push, you lose objectivity 3:46pm Julia Stone I don' t think it is a fine line. I just work to know the info before my clients see them 3:46pm Rayanne and it becomes only about the close 3:46pm Jerry Albright I've never pushed in my work 3:46pm Jerry Albright I hate that. 3:46pmpam claughton When you push, either client or candidate, then you have a great chance of a falloff, and those are no fun. 3:46pm Jerry Albright Really I do. 3:47pm Dean Lockett Takeaways are better than pushing 3:47pm Julia Stone ok that made no sense. I mean I need to know their sincerity before submitting them about the company. It NEVER works to push anyone 3:47pm Jerry Albright I use to work with a guy who would never take no for an answer. 3:47pm Rayanne true 3:47pm pam claughton I don't push either, and that's why I have an almost unheard of falloff ratio. :) 3:47pm Rayanne sometimes no is the answer 3:47pm Jerry Albright Then Pam - you're not pushing enough...... 3:47pm Jerry Albright :) 3:47pm Jerry Albright there's a balance there that's for sure. 3:47pm Joshua Letourneau churn n' burn - place n' bill :P 3:48pm Susan Burns From a corp perspective I apprecitae when a TPR can sell the opp but balance with the reality - I want a truly interested and invested candidate by the time they get to my desk 3:48pm Julia Stone I had a candidate the summer who the client wanted 10/10, his interest was a 4/10. I had to tell him to withdraw from the process & I Had to start over. broke my heart but boy did it strengthen my relationship wtih client & candidate 3:48pm Eric Gilson That leads to having to make Marketing Calls Josh 3:48pm Rayanne you did the right thing, Julia 3:48pm Susan Burns Julia- i would hire you with that story! 3:48pm Jerry Albright Gold Star Julia. 3:48pm Julia Stone yep, but it sucked 3:48pm Rayanne yep 3:48pm Julia Stone and i did get teh hire, just took another 2 weeks 3:49pm Jerry Albright (((((golf clap for Julia)))))) 3:49pm Rayanne yea!! 3:49pm Rayanne clap clap 3:49pm Julia Stone stop, don't, stop, really! :) 3:49pm Rayanne lol 3:49pm Joshua Letourneau Julia, i've been scared my client would hire a candidate i didn't want them to! 3:49pm Rayanne I've had that too 3:49pm Susan Burns Yes, sometimes you must save us from ourselves ;-) 3:49pm Jerry Albright Ready for another quickie topic? 3:49pm Rayanne SOmetimes you send filler candidates because they wat a field of ten... 3:50pm Rayanne yes 3:50pm Julia Stone ready 3:50pm Joshua Letourneau they're great at first . .. and then something is said to worry you . . . 3:50pm Jerry Albright 23. I am not interested AT ALL in being the first recruiter a company agrees to use. 3:50pm Jerry Albright Now way. Never. 3:50pm Jerry Albright Thanks, but no. 3:50pm Eric Gilson Send them my way Jerry 3:50pm Rayanne I agree 3:50pm Joshua Letourneau i like being a human pinata :) 3:50pm Jerry Albright You'll be sorry Eric. 3:50pm Rayanne Theya re not readyy for the process 3:50pm Julia Stone I have never asked that question. and I am so surprised you have 23 of these 3:50pm A Lonnie McRorey Correct 3:51pm Dean Lockett Doesn't tell me they are used to paying fees 3:51pm Eric Gilson you are assuming that the HM has no expoerience dealing with TPR? 3:51pm Jerry Albright Each candidate you send has to be so far above the rest - you'll never get there. 3:51pm Jerry Albright End. Of. Story. 3:51pm Julia Stone ooh, I have one too, do you mind? 3:51pm Rayanne no the company has no exp and cannot possibly understand all that is involved - response time, fees 3:51pm Rayanne etc. 3:51pm Jerry Albright Get your own show Julia........ 3:52pm Joshua Letourneau most companies reject a new process . . . even if the old is broken. it's human nature to resist change 3:52pm Eric Gilson It could be a great opportunity to educate your client 3:52pm Rayanne you said a mouthful there 3:52pm Jerry Albright Undoubtedly the "we want to talk about your fee" discussion will come up AFTER you finally find a good person for them also..... 3:52pm Rayanne I don't want to educate, I want to fill and bill 3:52pm Joshua Letourneau that's when you become the human pinata 3:53pm Rayanne undoubtedly, J 3:53pm Eric Gilson I would accept the search, but when we accept a search, we have guidelines that we accpect from the client 3:53pm Rayanne or there is the 3:53pm Jerry Albright I like your enthusiasm Eric. 3:53pm Shannon Myers what if it's a retained search - first time using tpr 3:53pm Eric Gilson You would start a search without nailing down your fee ahead of time??? 3:53pm Julia Stone I have never had someon try to renegotiate a fee on me after a candidate is in the loop, ever 3:53pm Jerry Albright Shannon-Ok then. 3:53pm Rayanne "we spoke to that candidate already..." speech 3:53pm Jerry Albright Julia - you should get out more...... 3:54pm Julia Stone maybe you are right 3:54pm Jerry Albright but I was really just talking about the "first time" fee 3:54pm Jerry Albright that was one of the reasons I'll pass. 3:54pm Julia Stone I will stay away from virgin fees, next? 3:54pm Jerry Albright His resume was on MOnster. 3:54pm Rayanne yep, they don't like paying for anything... 3:54pm Rayanne true 3:54pm Jerry Albright Julia - do you have a topic? 3:54pm Shannon Myers I've done semi-retained with my MD Practices who have never used a TPR, a small consulting fee to go through whole outline with them and then contingency for actual placement 3:54pm Julia Stone why, funny you should ask, jer? 3:55pm Rayanne hmmmm 3:55pm Julia Stone Rule #23.3 I always tell the manager something negative about the candidates when I submit them, but explain why I send them anyway. 3:55pm Joshua Letourneau companies now have researchers identifying candidates we submit - if there is a LI profile, they say they downloaded that candidate already 3:55pm Rayanne wow 3:55pm pam claughton Julia, why do you do that? 3:55pm Susan Burns Shannon - that is a great approach - its a nice way to educate and build a lasting relationship 3:55pm Rayanne that's happened to me so many times, Josh 3:55pm Julia Stone because they are used to us selling people, I try to show them we aer a partner 3:55pm Jerry Albright Julia - do you make something up? 3:55pm Susan Burns Julia- I like that - noone is perfect and it will help set the candidate up for long term success 3:56pm Julia Stone no, I don't 3:56pm Eric Gilson Why do you work with clients that work against you? 3:56pm pam claughton Josh, people are claiming profile on LinkedIn as a 'candidate' that's absurd. 3:56pm Rayanne that would be unethical 3:56pm Gregg Alper josh, thats the problem with working on spots where the candidates are all over the web 3:56pm Rayanne the whole, lying thing... 3:56pm A Lonnie McRorey Josh i can second that 3:56pm Joshua Letourneau pam, that's why blind resumes are a big-time no-no nowadays 3:56pm pam claughton I wouldn't work with a client that did that. Everyone is on LinkedIn these days, doesn't mean they are a candidate. That shows they don't respect the recruiter. 3:57pm Jerry Albright Or just cover it during the standard "step 6 - cover "shock" factors/negatives" which clearly follows step 5 - schedule the send-out.... 3:57pm Susan Burns Josh - I would ask for a date. And, it applies only if the candidate was in their system prior to the search 3:57pm Jerry Albright Susan - any company doing that is playing games. 3:57pm Gregg Alper pam, that is the biggest problem with tech recruiting 3:57pm Eric Gilson I would find a new client 3:57pm A Lonnie McRorey Had Client say that they saw candidate on Facebook 3:57pm Joshua Letourneau many firms market blind resumes to get a shot to work an assignment . .. but then the blind resume is identified by the researcher :) 3:57pm Susan Burns Doing what Jerry? 3:57pm Rayanne If you maintain an active database..., they will always be in your system.. 3:57pm pam claughton I have an issue with candidate being in their system too...if htey haven't called the candidate, how do they really consdier it theirs? 3:57pm Joshua Letourneau so blind-resume senders/marketers are killin us! :) 3:57pm Eric Gilson It's clients like that who think all TPR suck 3:57pm Rayanne Your client may keep a DB also 3:57pm Jerry Albright Finding your candidate names on the internet. 3:58pm Julia Stone they also will sign up lots of agencies (some clients) just to get you to agree not to steal from them, with no intentions of working with you 3:58pm Eric Gilson they think that because the good TPR fire them 3:58pm Susan Burns Agree Jerry. It must be in their proprietary system. Still questionable but I've seen it clearly written into agreements 3:58pm Susan Burns And, LI netowrk is not a proprietary system! 3:58pm Joshua Letourneau julia, yep - so the non-poaching clause should be limited to only if you make a placement (and then 6 mths, at that) 3:58pm Rayanne that floods he market and sometimes the "rockstar" has been approached a number of times already 3:59pm Susan Burns Jerry - this has been a fabulous CHAT. Is there anything you would like to add in the final few minutes? 3:59pm Dean Lockett Nice chat evry1, 42 participants..sweet ;-) 3:59pm Rayanne woo-hoo 3:59pm Eric Gilson sorry I was late 3:59pm Rayanne active today 3:59pm Julia Stone most of my agreements say they are only in place as long as the agreement is in effect 3:59pm Rayanne me too 3:59pm pam claughton Some of my clients will still credit me for a placement if I submit them a candidate that is in their system previously, because they didn't think of them...the old but/for standard. 3:59pm Julia Stone me too, pam 3:59pm Susan Burns I think this is a new record! Many new names too! 3:59pm Julia Stone great talk, Jerry. you inspire me 3:59pm Joshua Letourneau pam, KEEP that client! 3:59pm Rayanne Have a great day, all!!! 3:59pm Susan Burns Its a dicey game Julia. I have mixed feeling about it 3:59pm Jerry Albright Thanks for coming everyone! 4:00pm Julia Stone what game susan? too much flying by you lost me 4:00pm Eric Gilson Thanks Jerry! See you again 4:00pm Jerry Albright I've got 40 more random principals to share next time! 4:00pm pam claughton By all....back to the resumes! Great chat Jerry. :) 4:00pm Eric Gilson May I request a topic for a future chat? 4:00pm Jerry Albright If anyone would like to connect - just send me an email or call me directly. 4:00pm Jerry Albright 888-293-9249 4:00pm Susan Burns Julia - having to write in a deal that says if the candidate is already in the proprietary DB the serach is void of payment. Maybe a negotiated cost but agree - why didn;t the company find them? 4:00pm Jerry Albright I love to talk about recruiting! 4:01pm Maren Hogan Eric, contact Miss Susan Burns, she is the boss of the chat 4:01pm Eric Gilson thanks! 4:01pm Susan Burns Jerry - guessing that we could keep working down your list in next chats? 4:01pm Jerry Albright sure thing Susan. 4:01pm Susan Burns Eric - YES...please send your ideas 4:01pm Susan Burns Thanks Everyone! This has been a fabulous Chat. Thanks to Jerry for hosting such a terrific topic and generating great dialogue! 4:02pm Maren Hogan w00t Jerry! Way to bring it! Nice work. I got whiplash watching this mother move!…; Added by Susan Burns at 10:52am on November 21, 2008