Meet my friend, Kristen Durkin, Director of Business Development at International Executive Research (IIPE), a firm which specializes in multilingual talent research, Name Generation, Prescreening/ Qualifying of candidates, and direct contact; i.e. cold-calling and email Campaigns.
Kristen is a member of my networking group, "Six Degrees from Dave", however it wasn't until last October during Shally's "Talent Researching in Latin America" session at the ERE Conference that we met. She sat across the aisle with avid interest and providing her own perspectives on staffing challenges and opportunities in Mexico. After the session, shaking hands I realized the familiar name was indeed an RBC regular and conistent networker within SixDegrees. I smiled, knowing that this was yet one more example of many that our group members come face to face within the industry - not a coincidence that its members are most active within it.
The handshake began a day to evening to day after conference buddy-thon with Kristen supplying the wry wit and us delivering the laughter. One thing was certain, I would know Kristen for years to come - she is a walking best practices manual on Latin America and a good friend to have, not least of which is the quality of her friendship offered, but likewise knowledge gained. This is one smart, talented industry player with much to offer. I trust all of our community can embrace her with networking holiday wishes!
Q&A with Kristen Durkin
Six Degrees: Tell us of your home world.
KRISTEN: I currently live between Mexico, but I travel a lot back to NYC where my family is and throughout the U.S.A for conferences. Basically, my “home” life is usually packed in my brown and pink luggage. I am not married, nor do I have kids (My father hasn’t been able to buy enough cattle for barter to get me married, but I promise once that happens I will request a follow-up Q&A to release the big news).
I do have a greatly close immediate family; I am the middle child with an older brother, Jason who was recently featured on the History Channel; followed and documented as a NYC “Sandhog” and a younger sister, Maureen. My sister is a bilingual (Spanish/English) Speech pathologist. I have happily married parents named Mom and Dad, although some call them Andrea and Eddie, both of whom work in the medical field.
Before I moved to Mexico I participated in Big Brother Big Sisters of NYC for many years www.bigsnyc.org. For those who are not familiar it is a mentoring program for inner-city youth.
I perform Spoken Word Poetry throughout New York; including the NuYoRican Poetry Café. I try to perform at least once with every return to NYC from Mexico. The most important fact to know about me is that I am a “salsaholic” I dance salsa whenever I have time to get out there. It’s in my blood, if there is salsa music playing, I’m dancing!
Six Degrees: How many years have you been in the staffing industry?
KRISTEN: I have been in the industry for quite a few years, I first started when I was a freshman in High school.
Six Degrees: How did you get started as a recruiter?
KRISTEN: I began interning while in H.S at an HR Recruiting firm based in Connecticut, K. Russo Associates, Inc. I started by filing paperwork (which I hated) and uploading resumes into Vurve. Slowly, they allowed me to answer the telephones. The position continued to gradually evolve. Karen (the president of K. Russo Associates) began to invite me into the interviews, where I was strictly instructed to take notes and shut-up. Following the interviews I would compare my notes with the notes of Karen or the other recruiter’s. Eventually, I began screening resumes, searching the database for internal candidates, researching passive leads on the internet, and interviewing new, junior leveled candidates.
After graduating High School I wanted to ensure I liked recruiting and not just K. Russo Associates. I took a position with a boutique consulting firm who places CPA’s. I had a mini office on 5th Ave. in NYC and thought I was going to move up quickly. After my first commission check, I swiftly discovered- I had much to learn; like negotiating! I learned a great deal from my “5th Ave” boss, but I decided to focus on school, graduate college and later I went back to work with K. Russo Associates again. Whew, that was a mouth full!
Six Degrees: What single event had the most impact on your sourcing/recruiting career?
KRISTEN: ONE single event? I remember answering the telephone while still interning and asking the candidate while I went to put him on hold: “Can I hold you for one moment?” The bullpen erupted in laughter and I was positive I would thereafter be banned from phone answering and sent back to the filing cabinets. Instead, I went on lunch, and returned to the whole office having added screensavers quoting my mistake; Karen thought it was hysterical and apologized for the “silly intern” who answered the phone. I know it’s a funny story, but as a newbie in the business it taught me everyone is human, when you make a mistake on the phone, laugh it off and keep on keepin’ on. For each mistake I’ve made on the phone I improved my future calls. Mistakes like this have impacted my career; when training other researchers I always emphasize that people like humans, not machines reading 100% off of a script, if you make a mistake learn and move on. If it was an innocently entertaining mistake, then laugh.
Do you have a mentor to whom you attribute your overall outlook on recruitment, capabilities, and/or model your career after?
KRISTEN: Here is where I look like a big schmoozer and all of my coworkers will make fun of me, but hands down my mentor in this industry has been my boss, Karen Russo. There is no “fluff” with Karen when you do something wrong, but when you do something right she will be the first to let you know. I remember at one point we were an office of only women and after one of the recruiters closed a deal, Karen would do a summersault or cartwheel (In a pant suit, of course!) to show her support and enthusiasm. She’s pretty hardcore.
Six Degrees: Detail your position, responsibilities, size of your staffing organization:
KRISTEN: I am the Director of Business Development for IIPE- we are an executive research firm based in Mexico. HYPERLINK "http://www.iipe.net" www.iipe.net I am usually found at Recruiting Conferences, either as a vendor selling the business, or as an attendee learning and bringing back new information taught in the sessions to our team in Mexico. I can still be found doing research and applying the new techniques learned in a conference session on a research assignment. We are continuing to build our team, right now we have a team of 5, but this is not including our back office support. I suppose I am different from the average bear interviewed by Dave, because I am on the research side of the business.
Six Degrees: (A) What other companies' recruiting operations do you admire or have heard are best-practice examples?
KRISTEN: As a researcher, I admire the great sourcers; Shally Steckerl and Glenn Gutmacher for all of their help in teaching some of the most effective ways to use Boolean search strings. In addition to them a shameless plug goes out to Dave Mendoza as well, he’s helped build my network on LinkedIn and long before I had the delight of meeting him I always forwarded his weekly e-mails of the “top 10” and found him to be a great link to power-networking!
(B) In what aspects are they superior?
KRISTEN: A brief example: In October of 2008 I attended the ERE, fall meeting in Hollywood Beach, Florida. For anyone who knows me, they know I flew in from Mexico for the conference, I am an internet/phone sourcer and I happen to come from a Latin background. With that said attending Shally Steckerls “Sourcing for Latin America” was going to be exciting for me. I am not sure if I expected greatness from it, because I am so familiar with the topic , but I did in fact get greatness. Most of what was discussed is part of my everyday life, but Shally gave an excellent presentation, he was incredibly on point with his guidance as to how to approach a sourcing/cold-call and how it is culturally a different approach in Latin America. In addition I left the session and I was introduced to a few new websites, but for me- most important was that the topic of recruiting/sourcing in Latin America was brought to the table and was up for open discussion. It is, after all, an important part of the world!
As for Dave Mendoza, I always admired the magic he’s worked on my LinkedIn network with his weekly top10 and have you seen his amount of connections lately? Funny enough the first time I met Dave was in Shally’s session for sourcing in Latin America.
Six Degrees: What recent general news story or industry trend do you feel will have an impact on your work in the future? Why?
KRISTEN: Outsourcing research has become a huge topic of conversation amongst recruiters. As a provider of outsourced research, this impacts my work and IIPE greatly. As a growing commodity we’re forced to stay ahead of the curve with cutting edge technology and new training. The education for our group never ends.
Six Degrees: Have you represented your company in the broader conference circuit?
KRISTEN: I have represented IIPE at NEAPS, The Fordyce Forum, ERE, CAPS. For 2009 I am looking into the Kennedy Conference, NAPS and ASA in addition to the aforementioned, but we will see.
Six Degrees: What is your next career goal? What do you need to do to get there?
KRISTEN: One goal is to contribute in breaking the stereotypes of outsourced research. Not every internationally based research firm is strictly tactical (although trust me that I know, a lot of them are!). Our researchers have been trained by recruiters; they have been in the office with recruiters and understand the corporate infrastructure of the U.S. I can only help break this stereotype by proving out-of-house research can produce great results too!
Six Degrees: What talent niche groups do you target and are these particular talent areas specialized under your review?
KRISTEN: We have worked within specialized areas of talent such as IT, HR, PR, Biotech, Manufacturing, Security Cleared Professionals. This is just to name a few examples.
Six Degrees: What types of training in sourcing/recruitment are available to you and have you taken advantage of?
KRISTEN: Because we are located in Mexico, most of our training comes from webinars. Second to webinars comes in-house training from Karen and myself and our training never ends.
Six Degrees: What recruitment software tools do you use in your day to day recruitment activities & do they translate effectively within all of the different countries where you recruit?
KRISTEN: If I listed every recruitment tool we use I would bore any reader from enjoying Dave’s Q&A’s ever again. We use SugarCRM everyday and Broadlook Technologies, our fingers for typing the necessary search strings and our mouths for getting past the gatekeepers.
Six Degrees: What tools (technology or old school file folder, for example) did you first encounter early in your recruitment career?
KRISTEN: I did do a lot of old school filing with a “Sort-All” (This tool is a yard-stick long list of the alphabet with slots so for placing the resumes in the correct order to thereafter be filed alphabetically). As for technology I used RecruitMax (Vurve), then of course excel, the internet and the telephone.
Six Degrees: How did your expectations of being a recruiter compare to the actual, first time you got on the phone or in the cubicle? In your opinion, how do people's assumptions about our vocation differ from reality?
KRISTEN: I am not sure I ever had expectations of being a recruiter, in fact I was going through the process of for law school when I moved to Mexico and decided to stay focused within the industry. However, I did expect to be intimidated on my first cold-call, but it turned out to be an absolute high. Everyone always talks about the initial fear, it rarely bothered me. With that said, when I began as the Director of Business Development, I remember walking into my first conference alone and being MORTIFIED. I was worried I was going to spend every meal, of every day, at a table by myself (which as most of you know, is impossible at a conference full of outgoing recruiters). In my opinion I would say the biggest assumption about my job is that people think because I live in Mexico – life’s a beach. Not so much! I try to get to the beach a few times a month.
Six Degrees: Worst mistake, biggest goof, lousiest practice you thought would fly but didn’t…and how that was a learning experience?
KRISTEN: Oh! Really, just one? Well… When I first started to attend business meetings and conferences – I thought it was important to get as many business cards as you can and just network, network, network. Truth be told- that’s a LOUSY practice to have. At the end of an event you have 500 business cards and about 30 seconds of conversation from each person, there’s no relationship develop. Even if you take notes on the back of your cards there is no way you can remember enough detail to make a non-generic e-mail for each of the business cards you snagged. My learning experience has been, develop relationships not just “contacts” in the Outlook address book. When you come back from a forum and you don’t have 3 good leads or candidate or contacts (whatever your goal is) it’s because you weren’t focused on developing the relationship!
Six Degrees: “Best practice” you are most proud of developing (now or in the past) in your recruiting career?
KRISTEN: I don’t think this is the miracle “best practice” you’re all looking to read about, but what about good ol’ fashioned honesty being a best practice? I maintain honesty with my boss, our researchers and our clients. Honesty is my saving grace!
Six Degrees: What are some of the frustrating aspects/obstacles to your day to day as a staffing professional and in general?
KRISTEN: Certainly, being asked how many names IIPE will generate per hour is frustrating. We do have such numbers because of metrics measures our in-house hours worked and naturally we can approximate the amount of leads developed in an hour. Nevertheless, it really depends on the research assignment. I have asked many researchers how many leads they will generate per hour and received a flat number in response, I’ve also I’ve asked others who are on my level and won’t lower standards to meet a lead per hour quota. It should be about quality vs. quantity.
Six Degrees: Considering all of the frustrations you have experienced in your career as a recruiter, -- what inspires you as you continue in your career?
KRISTEN: I am thrilled when research has a result. On our side of the business the result is not always glorified or as immediate as a recruiter, but when a placement occurs off a list we produce it’s exciting news!
Six Degrees: What one thing do you ideally hope to accomplish in 2008?
KRISTEN: Professionally, I would like to increase IIPE business by 60% (or more) with at least half of our clients on retainer. A personal goal is to start a successful and sometimes read blog. For those who know me… know I like to talk. It would be a great outlet and prevent me from bothering everyone in my office with info they’ve heard from me100 times before. Look out for my blog… Coming To Audiences Soon!
Six Degrees: Anything you want to plug?
KRISTEN: Both of the below blogs are usually very funny, entertaining blogs which are most of the time geared toward our industry or sales. Try reading these:
If you’re interested in Behavioral Assessment Tools contact: Cynthia Rogers on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/cynthiarogers
Six Degrees: How Are You Going To Change The Recruitment Industry?
KRISTEN: There is a core group of people who always attend the recruiting conferences. On the last day of the ERE conference this past October one of the vendors asked me “How are you always so smiley, even in the morning?” When I am at a conference, learning how to improve our industry it’s motivating. I hope to change the industry by staying passionate about what I do and getting plenty of rest to stay alert! (see photo)…
ollow and would appreciate any feedback to know if its something that we should continue to do. So, sit back, grab a coffee and enjoy the conversation!
Don't forget to join us and participate in the live Chat each week on Tuesday's and Thursday's at 3pm ET / 12pm PT.
Susan Burns So, William - take it away and lets hear whats on your mind with HR and Social Media
3:03pm William Well good afternoon to all you non-West Coast recruiting people
3:03pm Maren Hogan That's an illustrator graphic from a mac, I will shut up now
3:03pm Ben Yoskovitz Hi Susan ... and everyone else.
3:03pm William I had recently done a preso
3:03pm William on Social Media (sm) and HR
3:04pm William amazingly only 25% had read a blog
3:04pm William and only one other person in the audience of 70 wrote a blog
3:04pm William pretty stunning...
3:04pm Business Support by Mittie wow...
3:04pm William It's really encouraging to know that you folks are already distinguishing yourself from the rest
3:04pm Maren Hogan Dan Schwabel posted a stat that um, I think 70 or 80% of marketers (not HR I know) were using social media
3:05pm Susan Burns Wow - the # who had at least read a blog is lower than I would have anticipated
3:05pm Susan Burns William - what was the average age - approx, of the group?
3:05pm Business Support by Mittie that is a very good question
3:05pm William Great q: don't know would guess that they were mostly boomers
3:05pm Susan Burns HI Ben!
3:06pm Lance Haun that's not surprising
3:06pm William So I'd thought we could start off w/ collaborating on just what is Social Media - and come up with a definition. Any takers?
3:06pm William(hi, Lance)
3:06pm Maren Hogan Oh fudge, I hate definitiongs
3:06pm Maren Hogan no g
3:07pm William Let's making a working one... no wikipedia etc.
3:07pm Business Support by Mittie creating video advertisemnts for example, marketing that appeals to a younger demographic I think
3:07pm William How would you explain it to that HR audience I just had...
3:07pm Susan Burns virtual collaboration, sharing and content creation
3:07pm Lance Haun hmm, user driven
3:07pm Steve Levy SM - recruiting the way it used to be done before technology...meeting and greeting and developnig relationships
3:07pm Susan Burns Hi Steve!
3:07pm William Mittie... those are great examples of Sm.
3:07pm Rob Humphrey sure.. social media is content distributed by technology...the web..mobile phone...etc
3:07pm Business Support by Mittie thank you
3:07pm WilliamN ice Steve!
3:07pm Steve Levy calls, birthday cards, coffee chats
3:07pm Susan Burns Hey Rob!
3:07pm Ben Gotkin interactive, multimedia, transparent
3:07pm William(hi, Rob)
3:07pm Maren Hogan it's definitely two sided
3:07pm Maren Hogan or should be
3:08pm Rob Humphrey Hey Susan..everyone
3:08pm Business Support by Mittie Myspace is also an example
3:08pm William Great point Ben. It certainly isn't passive
3:08pm Susan Burns Maren - can you try and do a copy and paste again today - this willb e great to capture and I still cant get it with Firefox
3:08pm Rob Humphrey Social Media is not to be confused with social media marketing...
3:08pm William Yes, even marketing is abusing SM, eh, Rob?
3:08pm Business Support by Mittie I think I confuse the two at times myself
3:08pm Rob Humphrey umm they are trying to
3:09pm Maren Hogan shoot I will try Susan
3:09pm William So we have interactive, authentic/transparent
3:09pm Steve Levy SM marketing is about monetization
3:09pm Ben Gotkin creating community
3:09pm Recruiting Animal Don't worry I won't say anything. I just came to harrass William U with my presence
3:09pm Steve Levy as we use it, it is about creating relationships
3:09pm Rob Humphrey SM Marketing is not just about $
3:09pm Susan Burns Hey RA - welcome back - its great to have you on TTC!
3:09pm William c'mon, Ani contribute... I can barely hear you...
3:09pm Steve Levy when Keleman says don't worry...
3:10pm Recruiting Animal I'm playing your music
3:10pm Lance Haun heh
3:10pm Ben Yoskovitz Social media is also "freer" - in the sense that more people are now capable of distributing their content / message.
3:10pm Jennifer McClure William - you shared a good definition of social media on twitter earlier. Are you gonna repeat that?
3:10pm Steve Levy Rob - abs but to far more it is
3:10pm Rob Humphrey The weapon of social media (so to speak) is being turned around and pointed at employers...
3:10pm Ben Yoskovitz It costs less to create and distribute.
3:10pm Recruiting Animal I know, Vin. It doesn't mean anything
3:10pm Rob Humphrey so much for "controlling your brand.."
3:10pm William So Ben's "community" vs Steve's "monetization" are those opposite or can those attrib work together in SM?
3:10pm Steve Levy they have to work together
3:10pm Business Support by Mittie they work together
3:10pm Rob Humphrey they work together sometimes
3:11pm Susan Burns Community and monetization can work together if there is a bi-directional value exchange
3:11pm Rob Humphrey depends what your goals are
3:11pm Lance Haun I think they can but it is trickier
3:11pm Lance Haun is that a word?
3:11pm Ben Gotkin they can, not necessarily important for recruiting though
3:11pm Rob Humphrey Ben--why not?
3:11pm Susan Burns Ben - maybe monetization in recruiting is a hire??
3:11pm William So in recruiting, I usually hear of people "using" SM. Is that a fair generalization. If so does it run counter to true SM?
3:12pm Ben Gotkin Susan - possibly
3:12pm Ben Gotkin I'm wearing the corporate hat though
3:12pm Rob Humphrey no i dont think so...
3:12pm Steve Levy monet. in recruiting depends upon who is doing the recruiting
3:12pm Jennifer McClure I don't think so. No more than using a phone to communicate with someone.
3:12pm William Rob can you elab?
3:12pm Rob Humphrey well--it is a phrase that we latch onto
3:12pm Rob Humphrey and we think about FB LI etc
3:12pm Lance Haun is their an intrinsic value of SM to not use it to monetize or gain something?
3:12pm Lance Haun or is it a tool like anything else?
3:13pm Rob Humphrey when we should be thinking about how to really harness SM
3:13pm Lance Haun it is the latter to me
3:13pm Susan Burns An important distinction is wether or not your looking at it as transactional or as community - wich is nurturing relationships and creating value over time
3:13pm Kari Quaas It's a tool for me to connect with all of you fine people. Without it, I / we wouldn't be here.
3:13pm Rob Humphrey I had a video game client recently--the whole recruitment plan revolved aroun a SMM plan
3:13pm Susan Burns Hey Kari - welcome!
3:13pm William Good pt Susan. Intent becomes apparent pretty quickly
3:13pm Rob Humphrey versus tactics--
3:13pm Steve Levy if ur creating value over time ur also creating val minute by ymin
3:13pm William(hi Kari)
3:13pm Kari Quaas hi all
3:14pm Ben Gotkin Susan - Or creating a conversation, building a brand, pushing out content
3:14pm Steve Levy meaning all steps are critical
3:14pm William Steve good point, but are recruiters patient to that end?
3:14pm Rob Humphrey A linkedin group is a tactic... not a strategy..for example
3:14pm Steve Levy most... NO
3:14pm Ben Gotkin LinkedIn Groups can be used strategically now...
3:14pm Susan Burns Rob - LI is part of a strategy and the site itself and actions on the site are tactics that support the strategy
3:14pm Jennifer McClure The recruiters who "use" social media just for recruiting typically aren't able to generate the relationships/following they need to get to the people they are trying to recruit
3:15pm WilliamSo let's run with Ben's spec ex. How have you used LI Groups?
3:15pm Ben GotkinLove it
3:15pm Rob Humphrey yes
3:15pm Susan Burns Hey Jennifer! Thanks for joining us!
3:15pm William Any one have examples?
3:15pm Jason Stark because they dont take the time to develop the relationship. they use it as if it is another job board and try and recruit candidates or sell to clients without taking the time to build the relationship which in the long run is much more important!!
3:15pm Steve Levy BG -which groups have been most fruitful for your searches
3:16pm Jennifer McClure I have a LinkedIn group with over 5k members in it. I've "used" it for personal branding, a bridge to establishing relationships, and a quick way to reach people I need to reach
3:16pm Ben Gotkin Any of the Big 4
3:16pm Ben Gotkin We have an alumni group for our firm that I administer too, good stuff there
3:16pm Steve Levy their affinity groups?
3:16pm Steve Levy sorry - already answered
3:16pm Ben Gotk incorporate or alumni groups, thousands and thousands of members
3:16pm William So would you guys say that LI Groups are more network (exchange of help) or communities?
3:16pm Susan Burns Ben - how do you interact with the group? What does content shared look like?
3:17pm Rob Humphrey network
3:17pm Lance Haun I would say network
3:17pm Rob Humphrey trying to be a community
3:17pm Jennifer McClure LI groups done well are definitely communities
3:17pm Carmen Hudson How do candidates want to interact with SM (from a recruiting standpoint?)
3:17pm Steve Levy becoming networks
3:17pm Susan Burns network - LI is missing too much functionality for it to be community!
3:17pm Ben Gotkin network, but you can also post content and start discussions there
3:17pm Susan Burns Hey Carmen - welcome to TTC!
3:17pm Rob Humphrey the community aspect is limited
3:17pm Carmen Hudson do they want to develop relationships, or are they looking for transaction-based communication?
3:17pm Rob Humphrey the dialogue component is in its infancy
3:17pm Steve Levy if they're candidates, they want access to peeps who will hire them
3:17pm Ben Gotkin Rob - true, but it's a start
3:17pm William Jennifer (hi) how are you using your LI group as a community versus a network?
3:18pm Rob Humphrey if you ask 1000 linkedin users they would say network
3:18pm Carmen Hudson Hey there Susan, William and everyone! Shout outs!
3:18pm Steve Levy Carmen - neither - I think they want shortcuts
3:18pm William(hey Carmen)
3:18pm Jennifer McClure Our LI group established a Yahoo group before LI added discussions to communicate, and we also have LIVE networking events.
3:18pm Lance Haun I agree with Steve, they want to touch base largely
3:18pm Lance Haun Do people connect to your group when they aren't looking for a job?
3:19pm Lance Haun I think thats the ultimate test
3:19pm William Ok, great example so there is more than a single online presence of your community
3:19pm Susan Burns LI is not dynamic - compare it to Twitter, Ning sites or FB and it is quite flat and transactional
3:19pm Carmen Hudson But I think LI is moving toward being dynamic, given the new app features
3:19pm Ben Gotkin LI is business focused though with 30M members. No other SM site competes with that
3:19pm Susan Burns ANd to Lance's point - would they tell a friend about your community because they think its a cool place to hang out and get/share info
3:20pm Jennifer McClure To build true relationships - you typically need to take it to an in-person interaction at some point. Otherwise, it's just an affinity
3:20pm Steve Levy Carmen - until they layoff more people
3:20pm Carmen Hudson tell ME about it!
3:20pm Business Support by Mittie I have a question excuse me if it isn't appropriate for this discussion
3:20pm Susan Burns Agree Carmen - but they have been really slow and the group manager tools are not there yet, let alone the community interface - would love to see them get it together
3:20pm Steve Levy susan - cost/benefit to add those features
3:21pm Carmen Hudson If they don't they will lose their core users -- only recruiters will be left, linking to other recruiters
3:21pm Susan Burns Jennifer - when u say in-person do you mean face time?
3:21pm Steve Levyless chance now that they having financial issues
3:21pm Rob Humphrey face to face is great
3:21pm Lance Haun yeah, exactly carmen
3:21pm Rob Humphrey but not common among recruiters...anymore :-(
3:21pm Jennifer McClure Face time or at least a phone conversation. I've developed some great friendships through social media with people I've not yet met, but when I do get a chance to meet them, the relationships become that much richer
3:21pm Rob Humphrey why not transcend LI Groups?
3:22pm Ben Gotkin recruiters are still a minority of users in LI. It continues to grow across all demographics
3:22pm Rob Humphrey use it as a feed to your community?
3:22pm Susan Burns Steve - could be a lot of benefit but I think they are running out of time and it will cost them more in the longrun to catch up
3:22pm Lance Haun Jennifer alludes to SM relationships not being as deep as ones developed over the phone or in person. That's part of the problem with relying on that strategy.
3:22pm Ben Gotkin Good article on LI demographics on AdAge.com this week:
3:22pm Ben Gotkin http://adage.com/digital/article?article_id=132300
3:22pm William What about other SM outposts... what else is everyone using?
3:22pm Ben Yoskovitz @Ben Gotkin: But LI makes a fair share of their $$ from recruiters, I'd say.
3:23pm Ben Gotkin Ben Y - I'm sure
3:23pm Jennifer McClure Blog, Twitter, Ning groups
3:23pm William... and how does this help you (as a recruiter) or even HR in general?
3:23pm Rob Humphrey William--there are many...
3:23pm Rob Humphrey Dont know where to start
3:23pm Kari QuaasE mployers who use Cool Works are using Facebook more to connect with their former and potentially future employees.
3:23pm Ben Gotkin Blog
3:23pm Steve Levy there are other forms of SM that peeps don't consider SM - less Web 2.0 than Associations 101
3:23pm Jennifer McClure The various SM options are tools to connect with people to begin developing relationships where it makes sense
3:24pm Kari Quaas And I should add that it's a small %
3:24pm Ben Gotkin Jennifer - Agree. Also to use to market your organization and build your brand
3:24pm Rob Humphrey I tend to mash up twitter, FB, Ning to make it easy for a community to grow --regardless of platform
3:25pm Susan Burns IF SM is done well - current, relevant content created in an authentic voice - it adds a personality dimension to the comp brand that cannot be created through other mediums - then the viral aspects take over and it riding the wave
3:25pm Jennifer McClure@Ben absolutely. Create a presence where people WANT to connect with you. Build authority & influence
3:25pm Ben Gotkin Amen
3:25pm William Rob are you trying to reach potential candidates or referral contacts? Or who else?
3:25pm Maren Hogan But people are really wanting you to give back as well.
3:25pm Rob Humphrey candidates..
3:25pm Rob Humphrey very specific folks
3:25pm Maren Hogan You can't use SM to take take take and never participate or reach out to candidates
3:26pm Rob Humphrey for example MTV Games--Harmonix--game developers--super hard to find ppl
3:26pm William Beyond reaching contacts (to become candidates) or active candidates, what else are you using SM for?
3:26pm Jennifer McClure For example - if I were using social media correctly, I could get @Susan Burns to follow me on Twitter :)
3:26pm Rob Humphrey We used Standout Jobs to assemble all SM in one place
3:26pm Susan Burns RE SM - look at the power of the Groundswell with this election. Regardless of your political view - people connected, shared, influenced, engaged and got involed online and offline like never before to express themselves and participate
3:26pm Ben Yoskovitz@William I think you should use SM to develop your own brand / space within whatever industry you're in.
3:26pm Susan Burns uh oh! Jennifer - consider it done! What is your Twitter profile name?
3:26pm William great point, Susan. SM was used to not just recruiter, but organize people
3:26pm Maren Hogan StandoutJobs is a phenomenal tool
3:27pm Rob Humphreyhttp://harmonixmusic.standoutjobs.com/
3:27pm Rob Humphrey It is Ben --u owe me for the plug!!
3:27pm Kari Quaas Great example, Susan!
3:27pm Ben Yoskovitz Blogging is still the #1 mechanism to carve out your own piece of the SM pie.
3:27pm Business Support by Mittie Being that there are so many people out of work, has recruiting been easier or more difficult?
3:27pm Rob Humphrey Harder IMO
3:27pm Jennifer McClure @CincyRecruiter
3:27pm Lance Haun I think it is more difficult
3:27pm Ben Yoskovitz Thanks guys (re: Standout Jobs) :)
3:27pm William Has anyone seen HR (versus just recruiter) us SM effectively?
3:27pm Rob Humphrey Easy to find people....hard to recruit!
3:28pm Ben Yoskovitz I think the downfall of SM for many is that they don't use it strategically. I think I argued that in the last chat too :)
3:28pm Lonnie McRorey I agree Rob
3:28pm Business Support by Mittie Really? Wow....
3:28pm Lonnie McRorey MAny don't want to relo
3:28pm Lance Haun I haven't seen HR use SM effectively
3:28pm Susan Burns Hey - that's right Jennifer but I thought I was following @cincyrecruiter - checking again now!
3:28pm Lance Haun I'd love an example of a department just using it semi-effectively
3:28pm William Lance, I'd cite Dow Chemical...
3:28pm Jennifer McClure There are some good examples of HR using social media well - @Kris_Dunn and @YourHRGuy are doing well with establishing their brand
3:28pm Susan Burns William - use of SM by HR for internal or external?
3:28pm Rob Humphrey i have 2 examples
3:28pm Maren Hogan I always hear ppl talk about Ernst and Young
3:29pm Rob Humphrey smaller firms though
3:29pm Rob Humphrey I am sooo bored of hearing about E and Y - no offense
3:29pm Rob Humphrey and Google
3:29pm Ben Yoskovitz @Lance: Our best example is http://telecomjobsireland.ie - which is Ericsson.
3:29pm Maren Hogan And I think Chris Hoyt does a ton of stuff for ATT
3:29pm Maren Hogan but he is more recruiting focused, not sure if that counts?
3:29pm Ben Yoskovitz So that's at the divisional level, to answer your question.
3:29pm Jennifer McClure @Maren - but Chris is a recruiter - not HR. Right?
3:30pm William Right, we hear about Comcastcares or Zappos' CEO using Sm to reach their customers. I'm asking about HR using SM to connect with their own ppl
3:30pm Susan Burns So William - internal examples?
3:30pm Jennifer McClure I think HR's opportunity for using social media is in creating a personal brand, communicating their employment brand, and establishing community - which leads to recruits
3:30pm Ben Yoskovitz Ah...that's a good question. Something I'm very interested in learning more about.
3:30pm Rob Humphrey Viximo uses twitter for everything
3:30pm Maren Hogan Oooh, that girl that I interviewed at ERE. Her CEO made all the emplyees use twitter.
3:30pm Rob Humphrey internal
3:30pm William Yes. For example: Dow Chem was facing a huge braindrain
3:30pm Carmen Hudson dennis smith of wireless jobs does a good job
3:30pm Maren Hogan And they won a best small biz award too
3:30pm William 40% of their ee pop was 50+ yo and
3:30pm Susan Burns Rob - do they use it internally as well - examples?
3:31pm Rob Humphrey code updates etc http://twitter.com/viximoelves
3:31pm Rob Humphrey yes
3:31pm Ben Gotkin When I was at MITRE, it worked very well, but was only partially HR driven
3:31pm William had 10 or more years experience.
3:31pm Ben Yoskovitz I'm curious about companies building their brands internally - to promote back to employees.
3:31pm William So they had a prob. They collab'd and used a 3rd pty to create their own network: MyDow
3:32pm Lance Haun I don't think the most effective internal facing campaigns are 100% HR driven
3:32pm William The purpose was to connect employees + retirees + alum
3:32pm Rob Humphrey I diagree w Lance
3:32pm Rob Humphrey depends on who in HR is driving the bus
3:32pm Jennifer McClure @Lance - What's your opinion on how HR can best utilize SM?
3:32pm Ben GotkinSelect Minds is a big vendor in the corporate social networking space
3:33pm Ben Gotkin They work with Big 4, Consulting Firms, Law Firms
3:33pm William IBM has a software prod for SM: Lotus Connections
3:33pm Lance Haun If someone in HR is effective, they are going to get thought leaders in the co. to help create and drive forward initiatives internally
3:33pm Rob Humphrey thought leaders?
3:34pm Rob Humphrey what doe sthat mean?
3:34pm Carmen Hudson HR is viewed as the gatekeeper - employees (even recruiters) are afraid to use
3:34pm Rob Humphrey like if you are not a thought leader..you are a thought follower?
3:34pm Lance Haun people that are leaders regardless of titles
3:34pm Susan Burns Lance - do you believe that it would benefit HR to also assume the role of a thought leader, innovator, connector and visionary?
3:34pm Lance Haun no Rob
3:34pm William Lance... and able to sponsor, give weight to an initiative?
3:34pm Lance Haun that's my feeling...there has to be authenticity
3:35pm Jennifer McClure @Carmen - depends on the HR person. Let's not peg them all just like we don't all want to be tagged with negative perceptions of recruters - cause we're cool
3:35pm Susan Burns HR could build their own personal equity by being more transparent and seen more as the connector / enabler or people and business
3:35pm Lance Haun Susan, I believe visionaries inspire others to create and prosper
3:35pm Rob Humphrey Lance-I sense you picked up on my sarcasm...
3:35pm Business Support by Mittie that is so tru
3:35pm Lance Haun so yes, I think HR does that currently
3:36pm Lance Haun how well is debateable
3:36pm Lance Haun but I don't think they ever do it by themselves
3:36pm Jennifer McClure Anyone here other than @Lance representing HR pro's?
3:36pm Rob Humphrey sorta
3:36pm Kari Quaas I used to be an HR person and I wish I knew then, what I know now about SM.
3:37pm Rob Humphrey i would never take an HR role though...too stifling
3:37pm Susan Burns Agree that its not an either or but an AND,,,,,And I think HR could advance their image, credibility and strategic contribution to the org by transparently embracing SM
3:37pm Jennifer McClure @Kari - how would you have used SM as an HR professional?
3:37pm Kari Quaas My manager was one of the "afraids."
3:37pm Rob Humphrey I used to run global staffing for a few firms..i am reformed now
3:37pm William So how can we help our HR brothers and sisters catch the vision of SM? Any examples?
3:37pm Lance Haun I think the problem with HR is they rarely come off as authentic so it makes it difficult to participate well in SM
3:38pm William ouch, Lance.
3:38pm Lance Haun I'm not casting blame
3:38pm Kari Quaas Seeing how my former employer has connected with hires prior to them starting work was great.
3:38pm Jennifer McClure @Lance ow ow ow
3:38pm Kari Quaas Building a community before they got on site.
3:38pm Lance Haun that's perception, fair or not
3:38pm Rob Humphrey Its not a matter of whether HR WILL particiapte or not!
3:38pm Ben Yoskovitz I think that perception exists, in part, because when HR rejects people they rarely give the complete reason.
3:38pm Rob Humphrey they already are
3:38pm Maren Hogan I have to agree with Lance, they have so many people to please-- it's hard to build relationship
3:38pm Ben Yoskovitz I know I struggle when rejecting people that I'm looking to hire with how to phrase the reason, explain it, etc.
3:39pm Kari Quaas I also would have broadened our recruiting scope using SM.
3:39pm Lance Haun That's part of it Ben
3:39pm William True, but in the same way - Don't wait for Legal to define your corp SM policy.
3:39pm Lance HaunDon't let legal define any policy
3:39pm Ben GotkinTrue, we defined it at our firm for Legal and Marketing
3:39pm Lance Haunthat's my policy :)
3:39pm Susan Burns question - how manu of you trust the hr generalists that you've worked with? DO u believe things always stay confidential and that you received an authentic answer when needed?
3:39pm William Nice, Lance. Ben... how did that go?
3:40pm Ben Gotkin I had a senior director in Marketing in full support of our initiatives
3:40pm Jennifer McClure I spent most of my career in HR (shout out to the HR peeps) and I regularly tell peopel I would be a MUCH better HR person now with what I've learned through being active in SM. I think HR can LEARN here. Not just use.
3:40pm Ben Gotkin he 'gets' SM
3:40pm Maren Hogan Yeah marketing!
3:40pm Ben Gotkin Legal had no concerns with the policy we wrote
3:40pm William So a collaboration... nice... did they also help with other things beyond the policy to foster SM at your org?
3:40pm Kari Quaas Ditto what Jennifer said.
3:41pm Ben Gotkin We've carried most of the load, marketing has helped with some of the branding elements of our blog, alumni site, etc.
3:41pm Carmen Hudson @Jennifer - very true. However, I recently surveyed a group of local recruiters about their SM use. Many are afraid because of "HR or legal implications". The *perception* is that HR doesn't like SM.
3:41pm Susan Burns Ben - can u share the policy?
3:41pm Jim - medXcentral Sorry I'm late.. long call. What did I miss?
3:41pm Jennifer McClure @Susan - HR people are people. So you get with the HR folks what you get with the broader population. Some are trustworthy & authentic. Some are not. It's not about the profession
3:41pm William (hi Jim)
3:42pm Jim - medXcentral kidding.. looks like it's been busy. (hi william)
3:42pm Ben Gotkin Possibly, I actually pulled most of it from searches I found on the web
3:42pm Lance HaunCarmen, I think that's a fair assessment
3:42pm Ben GotkinGoogle 'blog policy' and you will find existing policies from organizations including IBM
3:42pm William @Carmen 2nd'd
3:42pm Kari Quaas I would have to agree that HR doesn't like SM most of the time. I hope that they'll get over this soon.
3:42pm Jennifer McClure @Carmen - True. HR doesn't like SM - because they haven't taken the time to understand it for the most part. We need to get some champions involved who can show others how to use it well.
3:42pm Maren Hogan @Susan, no way I can keep up with this
3:42pm Susan Burns Jennifer - but do you think it reflects negatively on the profession since theres a difft. expectation there? Maybe they should be bonded for truth, transparency and authenticity ;-)
3:43pm Maren Hogan I am sorry. Next time I will login to explorer to capture from the beginning
3:43pm William One of the things I'm doing is being a source of market info to the company and HR... I'm using sm to tell them what they should already know (and giving sm credit)
3:43pm Susan Burns @maren - you should be able to capture the whole thing at the end since u were on from beginning.
3:43pm Ben Gotkin What HR needs to understand is that our candidates demand authenticity, and that we as recruiters are not going to do anything in the SM space to hurt the organizatoin
3:43pm Susan Burns Ben had a trick last time - maybe he can get it.....Ben?
3:43pm Jennifer McClure @Susan - no more than the CEO should. :)
3:43pm Susan Burns I'll format it if someone can capture it
3:43pm Ben Gotkin Susan - I can give it a try
3:44pm Susan Burns cool - thanks Ben!
3:44pm Lance Haun I think HR has less of a problem with recruiters using than say another employee
3:44pm Jennifer McClure @William has a good point. As a recruiter - he's partnering with HR in his organization to help them understand SM. Maybe that's OUR role!
3:44pm Susan Burns @jennifer - exactly! HR can be the conscious of the org and be a strategic player and guide to enable people and biz
3:45pm Ben Gotkin Lance - That's why a specific policy is important, make the guidelines clear
3:45pm Lance Haun Ben - I think expectations need to be set for sure
3:46pm William @Lance, @Ben and I'd add resources..
3:46pm William such as a central clearing place for information (some folks have a SM Mgr)
3:46pm Ben Gotkin What type of resources?
3:47pm Jim - medXcentral Are we talking about SM resources and the policy for using them as corp recruiters?
3:47pm Susan Burns @william - resource for managing community? If so, absolutely!!! Needs to be a community manager
3:47pm Jennifer McClure @Lance & @Ben - I like Zappos "guidelines" for SM that Tony quoted on his blog about the layoffs. Something about be real and honest. That's it. If you create a "policy" you feed into the perceptions about HR - rule makers/gate keepers
3:47pm Rob Humphrey gotta run thank u all this is great.. @rob_humphrey (twitter)
3:47pm William brand, marketing rich media...
3:47pm William stuff that will content wise better represent your org
3:47pm Susan Burns Thanks for joining TTC Rob!
3:47pm Lance Haun Jennifer - I don't think a policy is always needed
3:47pm Rob Humphrey Thanks Susan!
3:47pm Lance Haun depends on your goals
3:48pm Lance Haun I think what a lot of Corp HR people need to realize is that people are already talking about your company
3:48pm Lance Haun policy or no policy doesn't change that
3:48pm Susan Burns @william - do u think that HR / Recruiting can effectively manage sm and incorporate into existing roles or does there need to be a dedicated community manager?
3:48pm Jennifer McClure @Lance - I like the word "guideline" (that's HR-speak for policy) :)
3:48pm William comcastcares (a guy on twitter) coaches other sm'ers in his corporation
3:48pm William so HR or the person's mgr doesn't have to play thought police
3:49pm Kari Quaas @Lance - yep - they are talking about you
3:49pm Lance Haun I think it is more about setting expectations and not playing thought police past that
3:49pm Jim - medXcentral Depends on the size of the co. ... agreed?
3:49pm Kari Quaas I always believe that it is best to control your message.
3:49pm William Kari, right but in Comcast's example... most orgs will go top down and try to control
3:49pm Kari Quaas For some of our clients, their HR depts are just too small to do it.
3:49pm Jennifer McClure @Kari - you can never control the message. The point of using SM is to participate in the conversations that are already happening
3:50pm Susan Burns If there are clear guidelines the community can self organize and determine direction - that is a tough thing for a public or private company to allow to happen - but, they must support the communiites desires
3:50pm William...if you offer to help peer coach it's better received and minimizes concerns
3:50pm Kari Quaas Right, but at least your side is out there.
3:50pm Recruiting Animal William, that presentation you mentioned at the beginning. Who was in the audience?
3:50pm Lance Haun if you don't allow your good employees to use SM, only the bad ones will be posting about you
3:50pm William @Kari, Jennifer... great point with SM you cannot control the conversation, only help influence it
3:50pm Ben Yoskovitz @Kari: I agree. You can put out a message and participate, which is a form of control...at least you're there.
3:51pm William @RA HR folks (some recruiting too): http://www.slideshare.net/foghornboy/hr-and-social-media-influencing-the-conversation-presentation/
3:51pm Recruiting Animal 70 losers, then. Thanks
3:51pm Susan Burns the word control is a bit scarry - nothing can be controlled with social media....it can only be influenced.
3:51pm Kari Quaas Yep. We see it all the time on our social network. The employees talk (A LOT). For good or bad, they talk.
3:51pm William @RA I love that you are so wishy washy about your opinions
3:51pm Ben Yoskovitz You want to promote your brand in a particular way, and that's reasonable. And SM is a great way to do it.
3:51pm Jim - medXcentral That's what scares the big co's.
3:52pm William @Susan, @Jim great points
3:52pm Susan Burns RE control - as soon as the community feels control or manipulated the value of what your trying to build becomes diluted.
3:52pm William @Susan because it ceases to be authentic
3:52pm Jim - medXcentral @Susan... 100% agreement.
3:52pm Ben Yoskovitz @Susan Fair, but playing a bit devil's advocate - influencing is a form of manipulation :)
3:52pm Susan Burns The whole idea of sm is to build a voice, play and influence - if it works the positive overshadows the negative.
3:53pm Ben Yoskovitz Some might argue that he (or she) who yells loudest wins.
3:53pm Susan Burns Ben - yes, influence could be perceived as manipulation - all depends on the intention = authentic voice and actions
3:53pm Ben Yoskovitz Whether through traditional means or SM.
3:53pm Lance Haun Ben - That's right. And actively encouraging your best employees to be actively involved in SM is big time manipulation
3:53pm Jennifer McClure @Ben - then @Animal is the clear winner right?
3:53pm Susan Burns @ben - yes, but the community should quiet the outliers - did I spell that correctly??
3:54pm Susan Burns Thanks for the laugh @jennifer!
3:54pm Business Support by Mittie I have learned a lot today
3:54pm Kari Quaas Anyone see this article - http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1842104,00.html?
3:54pm Kari Quaas It's about your online reputation.
3:55pm Ben Yoskovitz @Lance I don't have a problem with encouraging employees to participate in SM
3:55pm Jim - medXcentral @Lance how is that manipulation if it is what everyone wanted?
3:55pm Slouch William, thanks for doing this today
3:55pm Susan Burns @Lance - actively encouraging is not necessarily manipulation - if you force them yes - but if you invtite them, encourage them, help them see the value and even recognize them i don't see it as manipulation
3:55pm Lance Haun Ben - I said good employees?
3:55pm Ben Yoskovitz We rag on a few of our guys who don't blog :) Although at least one of them constantly argues that he microblogs...
3:55pm Lance Haun no ?
3:55pm Ben Yoskovitz What's wrong with encouraging them to use SM?
3:55pm Lance Haun it is one thing to encourage everyone
3:55pm Susan Burns Hey JD!! Awesome chat today - great topic by @williamu
3:55pm Ben Yoskovitz Isn't it the same as encouraging them to refer their friends?
3:55pm Lance Haun it is another thing to encourage people who you know will speak well
3:56pm Lance Haun how isn't that manipulation?
3:56pm Susan Burns @lance - do you take ALL employees to recruiting events or the good ones? I only took the best
3:56pm Ben Yoskovitz Once you've given them free reign to speak, they'll say what they want to say.
3:56pm Recruiting Animal Did someone say I'm the big winner. Hey I got a prize yesterday and there was no money invovled. What kind of winning is that?
3:56pm Ben Yoskovitz And I didn't say it wasn't manipulation. But we all want positive stuff said about us...
3:56pm Susan Burns RA - you won a luke warm cup of Toronto coffee ;-)
3:56pm Ben Yoskovitz We don't post testimonials on our corporate site that are bad.
3:56pm Lance Haun Susan - you take good ones but isnt that the manipulated perception of HR we all hate and that lacks authenticity?
3:57pm Jennifer McClure @Animal - you win our undying admiration and affection
3:57pm Recruiting Animal Lenin said that when the state withers away the people on the street will take care of the bad apples themselves.
3:57pm Jim - medXcentral nice
3:57pm Susan Burns I always thought of it as recongition for those that were top performers. There are many things that concern me about HR but that isn't one of them
3:58pm Susan Burns @Lance - I think that depending on how HR communicates it and speaks to those that want to be included, then yes, there could be issues - so I see more of what your saying with that
3:58pm Recruiting Animal @Jenny Money don't get everything that true. But What it don't get I cant uste
3:58pm Recruiting Animal use
3:58pm Ben Yoskovitz I think the challenge is that it's darn near impossible for corporations to be 100% authentic. Then again, I'm not sure ANYONE is 100% authentic all the time.
3:59pm Jim - medXcentral @Ben... agreed.
3:59pm Maren Hogan my 2 yr old is!
3:59pm Kari Quaas @ben true
3:59pm Ben Yoskovitz @Maren Are you sure? :)
3:59pm Jim - medXcentral @Maren ... from the mouths of babes
3:59pm Maren Hogan yep, Rocky is the real deal
3:59pm Ben Yoskovitz @Maren I swear my 4 year old is a master manipulator...although maybe that's his authentic self anyway.
3:59pm Lance Haun Ben - 100% authenticity isn't going to happen
3:59pm Susan Burns This has been a fabulous chat!
3:59pm Jennifer McClure @Ben - but if you're authentically unauthentic that's authentic - right?
3:59pm William From social media to socialism (Lenin). Alright - wow. Thx Susan for setting this up. Thx to everyone being so "shy". Great stuff.
3:59pm Recruiting Animal They're talking about the kids. Time to go
3:59pm Susan Burns William - do you have any final thoughts before we wrap?
4:00pm Maren Hogan the word authentic makes me think of pottery barn which is not authentic
4:00pm Lance Haun Maren - that's good branding
4:00pm Ben Yoskovitz @Lance: Right. So companies have a responsibility to put out their message - and the community provides a check against absolute stupidity from corporations.
4:00pm Kari Quaas Good stuff, thanks!
4:00pm Susan Burns William - you were fabulous! Great topic and guided us though a really fun, active and dynamic chat!
4:00pm William Social media is about being authentic, dialogue that's published... we need to help HR catch the vision of SM.
4:00pm Maren Hogan Just so Im clear, all I have to do to get Animal to leave is talk about my kids! Eureka!
4:00pm Business Support by Mittie I am really glad I found this site....
4:00pm Lance Haun Ben - I agree. :)
4:01pm Jennifer McClure Have a great day everyone - and hug and HR pro while you're at it! :)
4:01pm Jim - medXcentral Keep it rolling. Does not have to stop now.
4:01pm Recruiting Animal I'll also leave if people start talking about their operations
4:01pm Susan Burns Thanks everyone! Don't foget Suzy Tonini this THursday on Talent Talk CAfe - her topic is Competitive Intelligence!…