eers do are not equivalent to what illusions a magician pulls from a hat, but rather - the product of wisdom they have gained from years of dedicated inquiry, research and deliverables. Who better to start the series than my continuing conversation with Russ Moon, aka, "the Sourcing Samurai".
• Russ Moon
• Sourcing Consultant, Talent Find LLC
• Richmond VA
• RecruitingBlogs Profile
• Office: 804-643-8604
• Mobile: 804-402-2364
Q&A with Russ Moon
Six Degrees: What is the source of your "LOWEST COST OF HIRES" - (least amount of invested resources for the easiest hires, regardless of quality) at your present employer?
Russ: In general employee referrals rank right up there for corporations. The internet with proper candidate development is even less, but frequently is not maximized in terms of the cost reduction potential. This is due to improper structure, inadequate training, process…..it only takes one fundamental block to be out of place to drastically dilute your results.
Six Degrees: What talent niche groups do you target and are these particular talent areas specialized under your review?
Russ: The computer does not know if you are looking for executive chefs, gas turbine start-up engineers or SAP FICO folks…that’s what I love is the variety of searches available. If you know the syntax, tools and techniques you can find what is needed. I love the hunt.
Six Degrees: What types of training in sourcing/recruitment are available to you and have you taken advantage of?
Russ: I have approached my training from a holistic standpoint in that I try to expose myself to a variety of training given that each has its own merits. My goal with each session is to learn at least 3 new things I can try to help me find talent more efficiently and rapidly.
My education started in 2000 when I started with the original AIRS I,II and III (CIR) courses. Then I was fortunate to be on the AIRS University program during my tenure at MeadWestvaco while serving on their centralized recruiting team. I took full advantage and took like 9 courses in 7 months and that saturation training really leapfrogged my ability.
About the same time I recruited Shally to help me go to the next level and started his apprenticeship program. We worked together several times a week, he would at times coach me on particular searches or even come online with me to search and show me new approaches. That one year, in retrospect evolved me more than 5 years of self study. My income based on what I could do experienced a nice surge during that timeframe…so something was working …at least for me.
During my time at Wachovia I became involved with Broadlook Technologies and had some high caliber 1-1 training sessions with Kary Valley. Kary is simply scary smart and his impact on how I viewed what is possible in terms of data mining blew apart my mindset at the time. Delved very deeply into their Eclipse product, ultimately being named their first non-employee Black Belt. What still blows my mind is there is still a healthy amount of untapped capability that I have not harnessed with that product.
I returned full circle near the end of 2008 and start of 2009 returning to AIRS to renew my CIR and earn the ACIR (Advanced Certified Internet Recruiter) and recently the CSSR (Certified Social Sourcing Recruiter ) certifications. Really enjoyed the experience and was pleased to see AIRS still bringing fresh content to the training space. Every conference I attend I have made a point to sit in on Glenn/Shally’s presentations to stay on top of new syntax and their approach to sourcing. Preparing to further study under Shally as his time allows to “take it up another notch”. That will happen this week in his home and I have asked him to put together a regime for me that is somewhere in intensity between US Army Ranger Training and an unsedated medical procedure.
I want it to expose every chink I may have, put it out in the open and then we will jointly develop a written development plan to take me from point A to point B. I have also already heavily invested in some of Broadlook new training which is quite good. Improvement doesn’t just occur, you have to mentally be willing to pay the price just like an Olympic athlete who endures the workouts to condition themselves to perform at their peak.
There is a great deal of informal sharing and training that goes on, specific people I seek on particular topics. It is just a matter of saying “I’d like to learn more about this” and it helps to bring something to the table to share with them. I love our community.
Six Degrees: What recruitment software tools do you use in your day to day recruitment activities & do they translate effectively within all of the different countries where you recruit?
Russ: It really depends on the assignment. I no longer have a stock response of “I use XXX” because my toolkit has developed to the point of being somewhat unique and to tools to some degree can impact the direction the search takes based on the capabilities you have available to you. Of course, it comes back to skill and being comfortable with a certain procedure or tool or syntax which comes through practice. Lately, I find myself rethinking how to generate more speed in terms of my ability to find the same people I would have located anyway faster. The goal being to develop a more optimized toolkit and how I use it to allow me to deliver more talent in the same amount of time. Enjoying the process and several people have shared tips that have already shown me this is going to be a very good initiative. Some tools recently have been deleted, while in the last week I have added two new ones. Always evaluating and optimizing what works best in my assignments and if something doesn’t cut the mustard…it doesn’t last long.
Six Degrees: What tools (technology or old school file folder, for example) did you first encounter early in your recruitment career?
Russ: Three tools when I first started (2000) that stood out as having either a “wow factor” or extreme utility were ACT!, AIRS Search Station (beta-tested) and EGrabber address grabber.
• ACT! – has a lot of interesting features and I thought was pretty versatile
• AIRS Search Station – my first foray into beta-testing and seeing a glimmer of how powerful search technology could be
• EGrabber address – it worked, easy to use, worked with ACT didn’t have to worry about it doing anything except pretty much working.
Six Degrees: How did your expectations of being a recruiter compare to the actual, first time you got on the phone or in the cubicle? In your opinion, how do people's assumptions about our vocation differ from reality?
Russ: I had no idea what was involved when I started. I remember buying Paul Fordyce’s manual on recruiting and studying others to try to develop my own authentic style. Sourcing – was so new that few in our industry understood it, much less knew enough to set their expectations. I realized later, as I spent more time in the trenches that part of my role was to educate, facilitate, share and catalyze understanding. During that process I experienced some of my greatest moments of illumination.
Six Degrees: Worst mistake, biggest goof, lousiest practice you thought would fly but didn’t, and how that moment culminated into a true learning experience?
Russ: Early in my career I would start sourcing, with an ‘eager to please’ attitude, without fully arming myself with all the information needed to really surgically source. This resulted in some near miss type candidates which were in the ballpark but not “Yes!” caliber. Intake Mistake …don’t make it and I will blog on this very soon.
What I learned was ‘slow is really fast.’ Slow in terms of taking the time to really indentify exactly what we are seeking, mapping out where this talent typically would congregate and thinking through your toolkit to make a decision on which tool/technique/source etc is going to have the highest probability of revealing that talent pool on my screen so that the core pipeline can be built. The tool piece is a bit sophisticated because there are more variables to factor in, with practice you start dialing some techniques in and it is very pleasant when you see your results onscreen change from goobley-goop into pure usable talent….that’s an interesting moment every time.
Six Degrees: How do you personally expect to facilitate change within our industry, and/or at your place of work? If you started that process, outline the problem, your solutions, and the vision.
Russ: I am being very authentic (which can be scary) and let my actions do the talking. If people are paying attention, they will get the message.
Certainly, I’m very passionate about helping others learn more about sourcing because it is part of the giving back process. There is no doubt in my mind that I have some very bright folks who graciously mentor me and I want to extend their influence by passing that on to others. It never fails to help me evolve so that philosophy has resulted in one win-win after another.
The forthcoming radio show, Sourcing Samurai, will be part of that effort where I’ll talk to very seasoned, knowledgeable experts who have spent the time in the trenches to really know what works about the people, experiences, training, technologies etc. that forged their sourcing mindset; changing how they approached their craft forever. Hopefully this very candid sharing will stimulate some thought in the audience over how they might learn from what the guests share with me.
Research is as much about knowing how to find the answer as it is knowing it. I know the guests who are slated to share are people that anyone who wants to learn more would do themselves a service by making a decision to spend that 15 minutes or so with us. Understand I touched upon the Sourcing Samurai previously, but it bears repeating, something free you will not want to miss.
Six Degrees: “Best practice” you are most proud of developing (now or in the past) in your recruiting career?
Russ: I developed a sourcing model and was able to navigate actually gaining senior leadership approval without any revision to the original presentation. Again my network served as a private sounding board which contributed invaluable insight. My experience at Wachovia/Wells Fargo truly ingrained the concept and value of open collaboration. It is a form of intellectual diversity which results in an end product which is far superior to simply locking yourself in your office and doing the work in a vacuum.
Six Degrees: What are some of the frustrating aspects/obstacles to your day to day as a staffing professional and in general?
Russ: Striving for brevity for the sake of time while balancing that with ensuring the communication is effective and professional.
Six Degrees: What are the most common themes of strategic and/or tactical mishaps involving past or present HR/Staffing org?
Russ: My opinion, which I don’t confuse as fact
Project Management - We need better skills there in general. We need to ask the right questions, i.e., “What’s the real scope ?” “What outside of the scope?”
“Letting Perfect be the Enemy of Good” – at a certain point, get going, watch what happens and adjust accordingly. Jason Goldberg has a phrase “Ship it”, which I have adopted. “Ship it”, Just do it and adjust vs. waiting until everything is perfect and the window of opportunity it closed.
Six Degrees: Considering all of the frustrations you have experienced in your career as a recruiter, -- what inspires you as you continue in your career?
Russ: I love what I do. Learning new things, analyzing, meeting the people, the relationships that have developed and are developing, technology - and I get paid to do things I really enjoy. I love it so much I just want to keep on going, evolving, growing, and seeing where the journey leads. We are in an era of exponentially accelerating possibility and that drives me.
Six Degrees: What one thing do you find most ideal given the opportunity to develop/ implementing/ invent professionally that has yet to be done.
Russ: I think for me personally I want to immerse myself in desktop technology and expand upon ways to increase the speed with which I source based on layouts, add-ons, toolbars and how I use them. It’s low cost, experience has shown me there is a lot of utility if you are disciplined in how you experiment and it sharpens your sourcing in general.
Six Degrees: Anything you want to plug?
Russ: My online Radio Show – "The Sourcing Samurai" - stay tuned lining up our first recording session now.
My Arbita BlogBlog – http://aces.arbita.net/blog/Russ
My Arbita Homepage
Six Degrees: How Are You Going To Change The Recruitment Industry?
Russ: I would like to help propel some of the thinking surrounding our industry. I would like to seed some healthy discussion, unearth some utilitarian tools, share with others and maybe inspire someone to really go for it. I have several experiences with “reverse mentoring” where I had a mentor who helped me with a topic and during that process I helped them gain a deeper understanding of what sourcing is all about. My new career provides opportunity for pursuing that passion and I truly enjoy the interaction with the super talented bright minds I tend to gravitate towards.
Help bring Sourcing/Research a little more out of the shadows. Keep and expand my seat at the table as a trusted adviser to the Senior Talent Acquisition Leaders who engage me to the point they want to bring me back. Help inspire someone with the aptitude to pursue this career path and show where it can lead.
as an interesting look into a variety of tools. As a side note - I'd really like to see more corporate recruiters join in the discussion. The relationship between these two groups is an important one. In the end, regardless of approach, it always came back to relationships. Are any of these tools industry disruptors? Probably not, but for some at least another tool in the toolbox. Thanks to Erica from BountyJobs for diving in mid-stream and providing some interesting stats about their results.
Susan Burns Hi everyone! Welcome to Talent Talk Cafe!
3:00pm Slouch Hi Jim
3:00pm Susan Burns Hi Jim - lurk about and thanks for stopping by!
3:01pm Susan Burns I thought it would be interesting to look at the relationship between corporate and 3rd party recruiters since we have such a great mix on RB.com
3:01pm Slouch what is your take on it?
3:01pm Susan Burns Do corporate and 3rd party recruiters share the same values and priorities?
3:02pm SlouchI don;t think so
3:02pm Sean Rehderme neither.
3:02pm Susan Burns What do you see as the major differences?
3:02pm Sean Rehder drivers/personalities
3:03pm Susan Burns Hi Sean! Can you elaborate a bit more on those two traits
3:03pm Sean Rehder 3rd party...usually paid on commission...so $ is the driver...
3:04pm Sean Rehder corp recruiters...lifestyle...company values...more socical aspects are the drivers
3:04pm Slouch I think 3rd party recruiters want to close deals
3:04pm Susan Burns Commission is def a big differnece. I know a lot of corp recruiters who believe they should get commission
3:04pm Sean Rehder agree with slouch
3:04pm Slouch I don;t see anything wrong with it either
3:04pm Sean Rehder close deals to get the commish
3:05pm Susan Burns Corp recruiters want to close deals too but have a lot more to manager with hiring manager relationships
3:05pm Sean Rehder i think they also take more of "I'm a consultant" approach rather then I'm here to support you
3:05pm Susan Burns Does anyone know of corp recruiters who get commission or incentive for results?
3:06pm Susan Burns Sean - is the consultant approach directed towards corp or 3rd party?
3:06pm Sean Rehder 3rd party does it...I'm sure some corp rec do it..but I don't think that many...
3:06pm Sean Rehder that starts from the top down...
3:07pm Susan Burns Do you think that the commission is the main reason why corp recruiters go 3rd party?
3:07pm Sean Rehder corp structure doesn't exactly allow for it.
3:07pm Sean Rehder more than that...can control their workload...only work with responsise HM's if they want
3:07pm Sean Rehder corp recruiters don't get to choose their reqs/hiring managers. 3rd part does.
3:08pm Susan Burns I've seen the hiring manager workload alone lead to stress and burnout so the independence is attractive
3:08pm Sean Rehder but you need to kill to eat...there in lies the risk.
3:08pm Sean Rehder no security in third part or independent.
3:08pm Susan Burns Re consultative approach. I always developed my recruiters to also play the role of consultants.
3:08pm Sean Rehder you better be good at what you do. :)
3:09pm Sean Rehder how so?
3:09pm Susan Burns Interestingly, I don't see as many 3rd party recruiters play the role of consultant.
3:09pm Slouch most consultants I would think get paid for the process
3:10pm Slouch non retained recruiters get paid when they make a placement
3:10pm Susan Burns When I think of a recruiter as a consultant its helping companies to expand their thinking around talent.
3:10pm Slouch and they probably get paid for the work they do
3:10pm Sean Rehder let me clairfy, by consultant I mean come in as an expert...full of direction and information.
3:10pm Susan Burns Specifically, its working to position the best candidate that may not be the exact fit but have even more potential
3:11pm Sean Rehder not the way you are paid (1099)
3:11pm Susan Burns I agree Sean! And would like to think that's an area to add more value
3:11pm Susan Burns Tell me about the market? Identify talent with transferrable skills when trying to fill roles that require unique skill sets.
3:12pm Sean Rehder goes to the recruiting animals queston that he seems to always ask...do you specialize?
3:12pm Susan Burns Can you "specialize" but also address talent adjencies to broaden your talent reach?
3:13pm Sean Rehder Bountyjobs.com and Dayak.com both gave demo's at OnRec
3:13pm Susan Burns I like their models. Did they share results?
3:13pm Sean Rehder great use of technology to create interaction/relationships
3:14pm Sean Rehder I know of success with bountyjobs..don't know about dayak.
3:14pm Sean Rehder but it also had to do with using the tool as one piece in the relationship...but not the whole relationship
3:14pm Sean Rehder...from what I know of.
3:15pm Susan Burns Do you think they could be a disruptor to executive search like the Internet has been for the travel biz? Remember travel agents - don't see too many any longer
3:15pm Sean Rehder the failures seem to come where the whole relationship is purely the portal
3:15pm Sean Rehder its post in pray in reverse. lol
3:15pm Susan Burns Good to see it still comes back to relationsihps
3:16pm Sean Rehder but overall...its a great tool for companies because of consolidated billing thorugh one portal that can be meaured
3:16pm Sean Rehder always does it seems.
3:16pm Slouch I think the expectations when a company signs up to one of these systems is that it will be wildly successful
3:16pm Slouch and it's not
3:17pm Susan Burns Jason - isn't that often the problem with new technologies?
3:17pm Sean Rehder nope..takes some work..
3:17pm Slouch it's nt that it does not work, it's just that making placements is not easy
3:17pm Susan Burns Looking for the silver bullet and its one more tool to work into the strategy
3:17pm Slouch and when you take out the relationship part of it, it makes it even harder
3:18pm Susan Burns They could lead to new relationships as well....if its approached with that in mind - yes?
3:18pm Ben Gotkin Susan - Yes! Hey everyone
3:18pm Susan Burns Hi Ben! Thanks for stopping by!
3:18pm Slouch Hi Ben
3:18pm Susan Burns Ben - have you used BountyJobs or Dayak?
3:19pm Ben Gotkin Hey JD
3:19pm Slouchit's Dayak
3:19pm Susan Burns btw - Dayak sounds like an insurance company
3:19pm Sean Rehder and there is talentmaze.com too
3:19pm Ben Gotkin No, familiar with Bounty Jobs, not Dayak
3:19pm Ben Gotkin I haven't seen how something like Bounty Jobs could work in a highly competitive industry like the one I'm in
3:19pm Sean Rehder i think those are the only players so far.
3:19pm Slouch if you look at the home page for BountyJobs, the pictures make it look lik making money is easy
3:20pm Ben Gotkin Talent doesn't come cheap in Public Accounting
3:20pm Sean Rehder slouch...you seem to take my $ pretty easy.
3:20pm Sean Rehder at the poker table.
3:20pm pam claughton Susan, BountyJobs doesn't make sense for more experienced recruiters who value the relationship building aspect. It seems better for newer recruiters who don't have many clients
3:20pm Susan Burns Ben - maybe you could retrain some investment bankers to be accountants ;-(
3:20pm Ben Gotkin I'm more concerned with working with TPRs I can trust anyway. They will earn their fee if they deliver great talent
3:20pm Slouch that is because you are a lousy poker representative for this industry
3:20pm Slouch that was for sean, not you Ben
3:21pm Maren Hogan hey all!
3:21pm Susan Burns Hi Pam!
3:21pm Susan Burns Hi Maren
3:21pm Ben Gotkin Slouch - that's right, I outlasted you last time we played
3:21pm Susan Burns Are you guys getting lost in poker talk ;-) only 72 hours to go!
3:21pm Slouch I know, I know
3:21pm Maren Hogan Are we talking about BJ, Dayak, TalentMaze and TalentHire right now?
3:21pm Susan Burns Pam - agree with you that it could be enticing to someoone new who doesn't have established relationships
3:22pm Susan Burns Hey Maren - yes - it came up while talking about value of relationships between recruiters
3:22pm Ben Gotkin Susan - we've lost alot of talent to the financial services industry over the past few years, we might just be hearing back from them again very soon :-)
3:22pm Susan Burns Maren = have you used any of them
3:22pm Sean Rehder I think if you are thinking, "hey...no relationships" then you will fail at using these.
3:22pm Slouch I was taught that as a recruiter you should be only concerned with positions you can fill, not all of the positions you have access to. this is where these systems put the emphasis
3:22pm Susan Burns Ben - I think you'll be getting some calls soon
3:23pm Sean Rehder slouch..do you think that having access to more JO's lets you do more cherry picking?
3:23pm Slouch it's a distraction
3:23pm Sean Rehder getting to those A type Search assignments?
3:23pm Sean Rehde rhmm...
3:24pm Slouch Sean, you thinking about folding?
3:24pm Sean Rehder lol
3:24pm Sean Rehder all in.
3:24pm Susan Burns That's interesting from a corp perspective. As a 3rd party recruiter would you then set expectations with corp recruiters about results?
3:24pm Maren Hogan Susan, sorry got booted off wifi. Th answer is yes, I have
3:24pm Slouch you should
3:25pm Slouch and that is if I may, plug one of the tracks that Scott Love will be talking about
3:25pm Susan Burns I've seen a mixed bag - think it depends on how hungry they are for biz
3:25pm Susan Burns Maren - do u want to share anything about using BountyJobs - or, whichever one you used
3:26pm Susan Burns Guess we lost her
3:26pm Sean Rehder what about all the companies that don't have "recruiters"...hiring managers are left to do it them selves...interesting to see how these app's work for them.
3:26pm Slouch it's exposure
3:27pm Slouch and that is not a bad thing
3:27pm Maren Hogan the ones that have worked have people who emerge from behind the technology
3:27pm Ben Gotkin Good point Sean, could be very useful in those situations
3:27pm Maren Hogan to interact with recruiters who specialize in those fields
3:27pm Vincent Baasa and many of the Hiring Managers are getting into Self Recruiting these days
3:27pm Susan Burns Hi Vincent - thanks for joining
3:27pm Vincent Baasa My Pleasure
3:28pm Maren Hogan I also have often thought that it would be more effective to have these boards "niche" themselves but I don't think that's going to happen
3:28pm Susan Burns Vincent - do you see hiring managers using any specific tools
3:28pm Julia Stone hey guys, I hear talk about poker & bounty jobs
3:28pm Susan Burns Hi Julia - thanks for stopping by
3:28pm Ben Gotkin Hey, it's the SourceCon poker champ! Hey Julia!
3:28pm Slouch ma little bit Julia?
3:28pm Slouch Julia, you won?
3:28pm Maren Hogan TH and TM both have smart people behind them who reach out to specific shops and point out appropriate reqs
3:28pm Vincent BaasaYes - I know lot of the Managers that I work with use Associations and local yellow pages to get the job done
3:29pm Julia Stone yes I won
3:29pm Julia Stone took down the big 4 on my way
3:29pm Slouch well, for sure the field will be much tougher in Toronto
3:29pm Susan Burns So HMs are using netowrking groups more so than newer technologies
3:29pm Vincent Baasa yup
3:29pm Sean Rehder do hm's use any technolgogy? besides email/phone?
3:30pm Susan Burns I always thought H3 would do better than it did. BTW - is it still around?
3:30pm Vincent Baasa I myself used many in the process in my early days to fill internal positions
3:30pm Maren Hogan I have not heard of H3
3:30pm Sean Rehder dead in the water
3:30pm Susan Burns HMs use LinkedIn, Facebook, and other SNS that they associate with
3:30pm Slouch are they finished?
3:30pm Susan Burns SEan - for real - they folded?
3:30pm Maren Hogan But I think the ones that insist on the cloak and dagger business or no communication quickly scare off recruiters
3:30pm Sean Rehderwell...not sure...but c'mon
3:31pm Susan Burns Hey Maren - lost the flow of your comments. What was the last comment directed to?
3:31pm Sean Rehder their major flaw was it was hard to find the jobs to work....my 2 cents
3:31pm Ben Gotkin Never liked H3 (the concept) much, paying people outside of your organization for referrals typically doesn't work well
3:31pm Sean Rehder had to be in someone's network who was a customer..and they had to invite you...etc...too much work
3:31pm Susan Burns H3 also changed the rules and made it cost prohibitive for most jobs
3:31pm Maren Hogan These recruiter marketplaces. If they won't let you speak with the HMs, it's doomed
3:32pm Sean Rehderthey won't let you? I thought it was the HM's choice?
3:32pm Susan Burns I was always at odds with the Ben. If asking someone to do some footwork and they know you are saving lots of $$ by not using a recruiter - why not pay them?
3:32pm Maren Hogan No IF. Some do, some don't
3:32pm Slouch I think Maren, it is more some of the hiring managers using the systems think that this is great now that I don;t have to talk to the recruiters
3:32pm Dean Lockett Mutual of Omaha used to use something called RecruitersAlliance or RecruitAlliance. You had to pay 150/mth or something to belong, but you did get hiring managers calling to talk to candidates, don't know if that is still out there or not
3:32pm Maren Hogan yeah well that won't work
3:33pm Maren Hogan it is
3:33pm Julia Stone I think 2 things as an agency recruiter
3:33pm Susan Burns Hi Dean
3:33pm Dean Lockett Hello
3:33pm Maren Hogan I think the only way for it to be equitable is if there is some sort of rating system on both sides
3:33pm Julia Stone amen, maren
3:33pm Julia Stone you beat me to point #2
3:33pm Susan Burns I remember Recruiters Alliance but haven't seen them lately
3:33pm Ben Gotkin Susan - It's an interesting concept, but I have yet to see it work in a sustained manner, that's all. People make referrals primarily because they want to help someone.
3:34pm Slouch I really think a rating system will not work in this industry
3:34pm Sean Rehder i've seen numbers backing Ben
3:34pm Julia Stone point #1 is that they are easy to use for both recruiters (who don't like calling new clients) and for clients from a billing perspective
3:34pm Maren Hogan I also think frankly, that the bar is so low on a lot of these sites that HMs really get excited when you produce someone quality and reach out and try to bring a consultant view to the table
3:35pm Susan Burns RE H3 & sutainability - it tested the limits of your network. The point of over tapping arrived too quickly if not managed well
3:36pm Sean Rehder slouch...why not?
3:36pm Vincent BaasaI totally agree with you Maren...Quality always strikes !!!!
3:36pm Slouch you may get rated on things you have no control over
3:36pm Sean Rehder like...
3:37pm Slouch I don;t see any self respecting high biller putting themselves out there to be rated by an unhappy client, candidate or other recruiter
3:37pm Slouch it's not ebay where you sell something and ship it
3:37pm Dean Lockett Sean - how would u rate whether it's client abililty to respond, recruiter ability, software, candidates too many variables
3:37pm Maren Hogan I actually was thinking of a two sided system like on eBay. Of, course, people get screwed there as well. ardon my language
3:37pm Sean Rehderi keep "my rating" simple...response time and feedback.
3:38pm Susan BurnsDo you all think that relationships between 3rd party and corporate recruiters are the same, better, or worse than they were 5 years ago
3:38pm Sean Rehder that's from a recruiter's perspecttive on candidates and HM's
3:38pm Maren Hogan Yeah and maybe there could simply be checkboxes, sat or unsat in categories like Sean's and some others
3:38pm Dean Lockett With you there, test the order, see if it's real, look at response time
3:39pm Sean Rehder Dean..yes. And then I want a timely answer returned with feedback..either way..don't always get it..but want it
3:39pm Maren Hogan I think with an adequate rating systems, boards like this could be a lot more equitable. Right now, it's too ambiguous to be profitable, unless you have nothing better to do.
3:40pm Dean Lockett I think it's spaghetti at the wall concept mostly on these sites
3:40pm Sean Rehder the basic rating..I think all 3rd party recruiters do is some variance of the A, B, and C req.
3:40pm Dean Lockettor A B C candidate
3:40pm Erica Jayne Walshhey
3:40pm Maren Hogan Did Susan give up on us? :)
3:40pm Sean Rehder Dean..in the beginning..but I'm "hoping" that once you find the sticky spagehtti...the tools will work.
3:40pm Slouch Hey Erica
3:40pm Katie Tierney I agree with Jason D - there are too many variables to control to make a rating system feasible.
3:41pm Sean Rehder and you'll go old school and work the A reqs.
3:41pm Susan Burns I'm just letting you guys roll with it.......
3:41pm Katie Tierney(hi everyone, by the way - I'm late!)
3:41pm Susan BurnsHi Erica and Katie - thanks for stopping by.
3:41pm Slouch Erica works with BountyJobs
3:41pm Sean Rehder pushing off the C's and then the B's off your desk. I guess that's a ratting system too
3:41pm Sean Rehderlol
3:41pm Erica Jayne Walsh thanks for the note Jason
3:41pm Julia Stone hey erica, your ears rining?
3:41pm Sean Rehder dang it...a fly just landed on my sandwich.
3:41pm Maren Hogan Well, I'm an idealist I guess. I know TH has a rating system but it's not explained right off the bat
3:42pm Dean Lockett keep the shredder nearby
3:42pm Slouch I let her know this was going on
3:42pm Erica Jayne Walshhey Julia!
3:42pm Susan BurnsErica - can you share any stats about how effective BountyJobs has been with making hires
3:42pm Katie TierneySome advice for 3rd party recruiters - play nice with the internal recruiters. They're not your competition. By the time a company has decided to go to an external vendor, they know that the internal folks can't fill the req.
3:42pm Dean Lockett< waiting with baited breath ;-)
3:42pm Slouch Dean, if a client looks at your candidates, interviews them and makes offers, you are bound to make placements. a dialogue is necessary to make it work (
3:42pm Erica Jayne Walshwell... we are going to surpass a thousand hires in 2008 alone
3:43pm Susan Burns Can you share how many corp clients you have and how many active recruiters?
3:43pm Dean Lockett Slouch, agreed, that's why I think a lot of these sites are not set up for that
3:43pm Slouch Erica, are you able to tell us how many candidates were submitted in order to get that number
3:44pm Katie Tierney I'm also curious about the engagement/disegnagements and how those affect recruiter ratings on BountyJobs...
3:44pm Erica Jayne Walshwe have thousands of employers... most of whom are small and medium sized. About 100 of the Fortune 500. And more than 10,000 recruiters. But these numbers include the Canadian market
3:44pm Erica Jayne Walsh engagements and disengagements don't affect the ratings on bountyjobs at all
3:44pm Erica Jayne Walsh only fills and candidates that make it into interview
3:45pm Susan Burns So, about 10% of recruiters are making hires - is that about accurate?
3:45pm Dean Lockett Erica, what is the breakdown of 10% fees vs 25% fees or better
3:45pm Katie Tierney But, if you interview someone who is terrible, how do you relate that back to the Recruiter's rating? Or can you?
3:45pm Sean Rehderslouch... what would create value?
3:46pm Katie Tierney(good question Dean - what's the avg. placement fee?)
3:46pm Susan Burns Erica - your being a VERY good sport about this - jumping right into the frey!
3:46pm Maren Hogan Well I think that depends on why they were terrible. Poor pre-screen or BO? One is controllable by the 3PR, the other not so much
3:46pm Erica Jayne Walsh Katie, you can't. We don't allow subjective ratings for that very reason. We believe that the fills speak for themselves... and the candidates that are horrible won't make it into interview
3:47pm Katie Tierney Just playing a bit of devil's advocate - they might make it to the interview based on a really stellar resume (or at least a phone screen) and then blow it royally.
3:47pm Julia Stone erica, what speaks to the "bad" clients?
3:47pm Erica Jayne Walshour average placement fee is around 23K...
3:47pm Erica Jayne Walshlol... we do
3:47pm Sean Rehdererica... and hiring managers can block recruiters, correct
3:47pm Katie Tierney So, I would love to see disengagements included.
3:47pm Erica Jayne Walsh we harrass non responsible employers
3:47pm Susan Burns Erica - can you share that as a percent?
3:47pm Erica Jayne Walsh then we kick them off
3:48pm Erica Jayne Walsh 21% of base salary
3:48pm Slouch I would still be interested in knowing how many candidates have been submitted to get the 1000 hires. That will say a lot
3:48pm Susan Burns So, in the end its about the same as a retained fee.
3:48pm Erica Jayne Walsh my research shows most retained fees are 1/3
3:48pm Dean Lockett Erica - how do you track whether a client is trying to fill their database or not with quality candidates by not responding
3:48pm Susan Burns I've worked more with 25%
3:49pm Susan BurnsErica - do you track average days to fill a role once its posted
3:49pm Dean Lockett Recruiter should stay in contact on those to make sure there aren't discrepencies
3:49pm Susan Burns Or, from candidate presented to hired
3:50pm Katie Tierney One of the things BountyJobs (or any recruiter/company matching service, for that matter) can't protect against completely is bad people working the system.
3:50pm Katie Tierney BountyJobs does a good job of kicking off abusers, though.
3:50pm Erica Jayne Walsh Susan... we do track it... and its about industry average. We belive thats because of corporations internal processes. As on average.. when companies make a fill.. they get the resume in less than 10 business days
3:51pm Erica Jayne Walsh Slouch... trying to figure out that resume number
3:51pm Slouch thanks
3:51pm Susan Burns JD - thanks for reaching out to Erica - I think we'll have to send her flowers for being such a good sport!
3:51pm Dean Lockett i'm guessing 6 to 1 - 6000
3:52pm Slouch I bet it is way more than that
3:52pm Katie Tierney Send an Edible Arrangement. I got two after my surgery, and they were really good. :)
3:52pm Susan Burns 6:1 would be incredible!
3:52pm Susan Burns 6:1 would be closer to presented to hired.
3:52pm Katie Tierney 6:1 would be amazing. The one position I used BountyJobs for received about 25 resumes, but none were the right fit.
3:52pm Jeff Ingman Hi all... Can I make a short off topic comment without offending?
3:53pm Susan Burns Hi Jeff - yes dive in!
3:53pm Jeff Ingman I'd like to ask if anyone knows Avature?
3:53pm Dean Lockett I'm trying to be kind here to Erica, she's in the hotseat ;-)
3:53pm Jeff Ingman They bill it as a CRM for recruiters
3:53pm Jeff Ingman but it's basically an ATS
3:54pm Dean Lockett It might move my rating up in BJ
3:54pm Susan Burns Their google descripts sounds like its an RPO for offshore sourcing
3:54pm Ben Gotkin I always thought that Avature's main product was Offshored Sourcing. the technology comes with their sourcing services.
3:54pm Slouch Jeff, Michael who works there is on this network http://www.recruitingblogs.com/profile/MikeJohnson
3:55pm Susan Burns Jason - I still can't copy/paste the chat - can you grab todays?
3:55pm Ben Gotkin Like Susan said ;-)
3:55pm Jeff Ingman As I understand Avature was founded by the guy who started HotJobs
3:55pm Slouch I can;t either susan
3:55pm Jeff Ingman They've pitched it to us as a replacement for our ATS
3:55pm Erica Jayne Walsh sorry Jason... I can't get the data from here... sitting in the hallway at TaleoWorld. :)
3:55pm Maren Hogan Is that like LegoWorld? Sorry, couldn't resist
3:56pm Ben Gotkin LOL, good one Maren
3:56pm Susan Burns Jeff - may be a good forum question. Would be interesting to see what the feedback is
3:56pm Slouch np Erica, it would be great data to be able to use to promote your service
3:56pm Susan Burns And, yes, there is a HJ connection
3:56pm Jeff IngmanOK... I'll post there
3:56pm Erica Jayne Walsh I'll certainly look into it when i get back to NYC
3:56pm Susan Burns Maren - can you see if you can copy/paste the chat flow from today
3:56pm Slouch there is only about 10 minutes saved here
3:56pm Maren HoganI'll try.
3:56pm Maren Hoganoh, furge
3:57pm Katie Tierney I can get 2:23PM and after.
3:57pm Susan Burns Jason - I can scroll up and see the whole thing
3:57pm Dean Lockett Maren, is that a new dictionary word?
3:57pm Slouch the entire thing?
3:57pm Slouch not me
3:57pm Julia Stone I have 45 min on my screen, no cut & pasting though
3:57pm Susan Burns Erica - THANK you for stopping by and answering the rapid fire questions!
3:57pm Ben Gotkin I can see back to 10:20AM
3:58pm Susan Burns Yes - I can see up to early this am - 7:20 PT
3:58pm Susan Burns Ben and I are in synch!!
3:58pm Maren Hogan whoa i can't back to 1:18
3:58pm Erica Jayne Walsh No problem Susan... sorry I didn't have all the answers. glad to follow up on this conversation
3:58pm Slouchi can see from 3:44
3:58pm Maren Hogan Erica, from what I have seen, you rep BJ very well. Good show!
3:58pm Susan Burns Ben -can you copy/paste the chat?
3:58pm pam claughton I can see from 3:40
3:59pm Ben Gotkin I'll see what I can do
3:59pm Susan Burns JD - weird that everyone sees something different. ANd, yes, I'm accounting for time zones ;-)
3:59pm Susan BurnsThanks Ben. I'd like to post today's if possible - great conversation!
3:59pm Slouch it's all weird
3:59pm Maren Hogan maybe it depends on how long you've been logged in??
3:59pm Katie Tierney I think what you see is dependent upon when you open the browser page.
4:00pm Susan Burns I think it may be when you first logged in to RB. I haven't been on consistently since 7…