Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Amy Ala Miller on December 14, 2012 at 3:19pm

@Amber I stand corrected. :) You have an excellent point - you don't know if you don't ask, and clearly your model works! It is sometimes hard to know, and a lot of it comes down to timing. What gets me is when I explain that we have nine (9!!) full time, 100% focused on recruiting recruiters (including our 2 recruiting directors) and that IF we use agency it will be in these very rare and narrow circumstances, then they bitch and whine about how I'm "in the way" or keeping them from developing a relationship with the hiring manager... blah.

 

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but the idea that somehow my having a LinkedIn recruiter seat, vs. the reality that my company is making a signifcant investment in recruiting by hiring this huge team, is somehow the death of TPRs... I just don't get it.
 
Amber said:

@Amy - I try to find out how or why a company might need us as 3rd party recruiters when I first talk to them. But sometimes it's hard to determine that, or at that time maybe they can't or don't want want to use an outside recruiter. That changes all the time, so I do keep contact and try not be totally obnoxious about it.

Also, if I look at our client list, 95% have internal recruiters, and approximately 65% of those have an entire recruiting department!? When I first started in recruiting I thought I would not want to call those companies, but I quickly found out it doesn't always matter what is currently in place. (Those companies were obviously not as fortunate as yours to find the best people!)

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Permalink Reply by Daren J. Mongello on December 14, 2012 at 5:52pm

The short answer? NO NO NO ....and NO.

People asked the same thing back in 1992 when Bill Warren launched OCC (the first job board)
20 years ago people fretted that recruiters would be made obsolete.
Never happened. Never will.

Finding people is not recruiting. LinkedIn is a good sourcing tool but it's effectiveness is very limited.
Never mind that there are some niches (healthcare, lawyers, dentists) that don't map well to LinkedIn.

Top-level recruiters are being paid for the networks and relationships that they've cultivated over the years.
More times than not, they are working a very specific niche and are well known within it.

-----

Amy....respectfully ....if you are an in house recruiter....then most likely you *are* in the way.  :-P
Typically..we're competing for the same business. It happens.... but very rarely are we actually "partners".

The hiring manager?
The one really feeling the pain?
That's my partner. Always.

And if somehow you ARE managing the process?
Unless you've paid me upfront....I'm going elsewhere cause (as you said) it's not worth my time for the "these very rare and narrow circumstances". More times than not...(generally speaking) you and your ilk will sabotage/undermine the process.

Amy...I TOTALLY get it....it's your turf.
I can smell the pee from here. ;)

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Permalink Reply by Amy Ala Miller on December 16, 2012 at 9:37pm

Lol that's cute Daren :) 180 plus reqs filled 18 months would indicate I must be doing something right.

The agency recruiter I worked with to fill a role in Chicago just last week would probably disagree with you about me, at least. I'll have to ask him what he thinks of "my ilk" lol

As far as me being in the way... Well maybe in YOUR way. ;)

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Permalink Reply by Daren J. Mongello on December 17, 2012 at 11:42am

Amy,

Now did I say you weren't an EXCELLENT recruiter?
I am sure you're one of the BEST in ALL of Washington.
Both candidates and hiring managers love you. #AMIRITE?
But that doesn't mean you can do it all or that you can do it best in all markets that Zones serves.

Let's be honest....Chicago is a tough market.
Some of your revenue generating reqs have been open for quite a long time.
Months right?
Isnt that losing your company money every day those roles sit open unbillable???
If so, why not get some outside help. It's what we do!!!!

Don't you think Don C. would be interested in my "rock star" Chicago Enterprise Sales guy?
Yknow the one....he did $4million in 2012 and is getting his commissions cut next year?
The one that would never ever ever answer a job posting or LinkedIn InMail?
If Don's pain was great enough....of course he would.

So be proactive on those roles that are just sitting there without a decent candidate pipeline.
Find some local TPRs to work with. You can do it. I know you can. We believe in you.

Merry Christmas Amy !!!
XOXO

PS: I love that you're tweeting about me...but please....be nice about it....OK?

Amy Ala said:

Lol that's cute Daren :) 180 plus reqs filled 18 months would indicate I must be doing something right.

The agency recruiter I worked with to fill a role in Chicago just last week would probably disagree with you about me, at least. I'll have to ask him what he thinks of "my ilk" lol

As far as me being in the way... Well maybe in YOUR way. ;)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Amy Ala Miller on December 17, 2012 at 12:18pm

Oh Daren.... I don't recruit any of the sales positions, but I'm sure our two excellent sales recruiters would be happy to talk more about that. :) I double checked to make sure, but as it turns out we've tried to use agencies for these Enterprise roles and got nowhere. The Sr. Leadership team has decided we will NOT use agencies (based on, I can only assume, our previous experience).

 

I know it's easier to blame me and my ilk when things don't go your way. So, if your guy fits our profile (surely you already know what that is) do your thing! Just spell the VP's name right. There's your pro tip for the day.

 

Since you enjoyed my tweet so much - I'll share it here with this fine audience -

 

Serious ? For recruiters: have you ever been paid because of your "deep network" or because you actually filled a position?

 

Merry Christmas to you ALL!! :)
 
Daren J. Mongello said:

Amy,

Now did I say you weren't an EXCELLENT recruiter?
I am sure you're one of the BEST in ALL of Washington.
Both candidates and hiring managers love you. #AMIRITE?
But that doesn't mean you can do it all or that you can do it best in all markets that Zones serves.

Let's be honest....Chicago is a tough market.
Some of your revenue generating reqs have been open for quite a long time.
Months right?
Isnt that losing your company money every day those roles sit open unbillable???
If so, why not get some outside help. It's what we do!!!!

Don't you think Don C. would be interested in my "rock star" Chicago Enterprise Sales guy?
Yknow the one....he did $4million in 2012 and is getting his commissions cut next year?
The one that would never ever ever answer a job posting or LinkedIn InMail?
If Don's pain was great enough....of course he would.

So be proactive on those roles that are just sitting there without a decent candidate pipeline.
Find some local TPRs to work with. You can do it. I know you can. We believe in you.

Merry Christmas Amy !!!
XOXO

PS: I love that you're tweeting about me...but please....be nice about it....OK?

Amy Ala said:

Lol that's cute Daren :) 180 plus reqs filled 18 months would indicate I must be doing something right.

The agency recruiter I worked with to fill a role in Chicago just last week would probably disagree with you about me, at least. I'll have to ask him what he thinks of "my ilk" lol

As far as me being in the way... Well maybe in YOUR way. ;)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Daren J. Mongello on December 17, 2012 at 1:22pm

I would love to work on their roles. Alas...Chicago are not my thing these days.

But for you? If you ever need anything technical in New York metro?
All you have to do is whistle and I'll come running, OK?

-DJM


Amy Ala said:

Oh Daren.... I don't recruit any of the sales positions, but I'm sure our two excellent sales recruiters would be happy to talk more about that. :) I double checked to make sure, but as it turns out we've tried to use agencies for these Enterprise roles and got nowhere. The Sr. Leadership team has decided we will NOT use agencies (based on, I can only assume, our previous experience).

 

I know it's easier to blame me and my ilk when things don't go your way. So, if your guy fits our profile (surely you already know what that is) do your thing! Just spell the VP's name right. There's your pro tip for the day.

 

Since you enjoyed my tweet so much - I'll share it here with this fine audience -

 

Serious ? For recruiters: have you ever been paid because of your "deep network" or because you actually filled a position?

 

Merry Christmas to you ALL!! :)
 
Daren J. Mongello said:

Amy,

Now did I say you weren't an EXCELLENT recruiter?
I am sure you're one of the BEST in ALL of Washington.
Both candidates and hiring managers love you. #AMIRITE?
But that doesn't mean you can do it all or that you can do it best in all markets that Zones serves.

Let's be honest....Chicago is a tough market.
Some of your revenue generating reqs have been open for quite a long time.
Months right?
Isnt that losing your company money every day those roles sit open unbillable???
If so, why not get some outside help. It's what we do!!!!

Don't you think Don C. would be interested in my "rock star" Chicago Enterprise Sales guy?
Yknow the one....he did $4million in 2012 and is getting his commissions cut next year?
The one that would never ever ever answer a job posting or LinkedIn InMail?
If Don's pain was great enough....of course he would.

So be proactive on those roles that are just sitting there without a decent candidate pipeline.
Find some local TPRs to work with. You can do it. I know you can. We believe in you.

Merry Christmas Amy !!!
XOXO

PS: I love that you're tweeting about me...but please....be nice about it....OK?

Amy Ala said:

Lol that's cute Daren :) 180 plus reqs filled 18 months would indicate I must be doing something right.

The agency recruiter I worked with to fill a role in Chicago just last week would probably disagree with you about me, at least. I'll have to ask him what he thinks of "my ilk" lol

As far as me being in the way... Well maybe in YOUR way. ;)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Amy Ala Miller on December 17, 2012 at 1:50pm

Tease. ;)
 
Daren J. Mongello said:

I would love to work on their roles. Alas...Chicago are not my thing these days.

But for you? If you ever need anything technical in New York metro?
All you have to do is whistle and I'll come running, OK?

-DJM

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Brian K. Johnston on December 17, 2012 at 2:09pm

No: Influence And Persuasion skills will keep ALL good recruiters in business... Because in life is not not what you have, it is what you DO (action) with what you have that matters...

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Permalink Reply by Nick Leigh-Morgan on December 18, 2012 at 8:08pm

I can certainly see a situation where Executive search firms go bust though use of executive search consultants remains the same. I'll explain the contradiction........

I can think of an example of someone I know who worked for a search firm, realised that anyone with access to Linkedin could do his job so he left, set up on his own and charges a simple day rate ($750) to search Linkedin, find the right candidates, phones them up, sell the job.....etc etc. Basically doing what he did before but instead of charging 25% with a typical fee of $25k, now the client gets charged about 8 days work or $6k.

So what I expect will happen is that tons of search consultants will just go and set up on their own and undercut the companies they used to work for whilst matching or exceeding the earnings they used to achieve.

Think about what Linkedin has done. The whopping fees search firms charged were 'justified' on the basis that the research element was the most labour intensive. Now you can get a list of relevant people in seconds which anyone with a basic understanding of recruiting could do.  The clients are stupid. They know this so already they're asking...."you're doing less work so cut your fees or I'll use this independent consultant who charges much less.....actually we'll go and use him anyway"...or words to that effect.

Put it this way, I wouldn't buy shares in a search firm right now. Linkedin might well put them out of business. Not today, not tomorrow but over time they're going to lose out.

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Permalink Reply by pam claughton on December 19, 2012 at 10:57am

Nick,

Have you actually ever worked as a recruiter?  Recruiting sounds easy, you just get names and presto, bill for a placement. First Monster was going to put us out of business, then Linkedin, now in your scenario, the discounters. It's always something. Thing is, if it was that simple, if recruiting was that easy, you'd be right, everyone would be doing it, and there would be no need for search firms.

But that's not quite the case. Search firms are going strong. We are busier than ever. Recruiting is not as easy as it appears. It's not all about getting the names.

It's all about what happens next.

And that's why a good recruiter will always have all the work they can handle.

And there is no need, EVER, for a good recruiter to discount what they do. There is a high demand for our services.

Cheers,

Pam

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Permalink Reply by Amy Ala Miller on December 19, 2012 at 12:01pm

What Pam said. :) 
 
 pam claughton said:

Nick,

Have you actually ever worked as a recruiter?  Recruiting sounds easy, you just get names and presto, bill for a placement. First Monster was going to put us out of business, then Linkedin, now in your scenario, the discounters. It's always something. Thing is, if it was that simple, if recruiting was that easy, you'd be right, everyone would be doing it, and there would be no need for search firms.

But that's not quite the case. Search firms are going strong. We are busier than ever. Recruiting is not as easy as it appears. It's not all about getting the names.

It's all about what happens next.

And that's why a good recruiter will always have all the work they can handle.

And there is no need, EVER, for a good recruiter to discount what they do. There is a high demand for our services.

Cheers,

Pam

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Raphael Fang on December 19, 2012 at 12:40pm

I don't doubt that Linkedin is filled with candidates that are profitable.  However our clients pay us to find talents in the job Market, and the Linkedin is not a complete database of candidates in the job market.

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