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If every company has an internal recruitment team, how will consultancies play their role and how will they survive?
Well, I sometimes think that Now a days every small, large or medium size for that sake, companies, when we call them for recruitment services, they say.."We have our internal recruitment team and they source candidates for us, we don't want vendors".
As recruitment is one of the most important and sensitive part of Human resources. It is not each an every HR person will be great in doing it. And also its a fact that HR people are very busy people in the entire organisation. And again in there hectic schedule to add recruitment, makes them more crazy. Wherein other side a Recruitment consultant is only made for Recruitment job, and he knows that these is the job he will be doing every day and every hour, so he develops his own skills in it.
When each companies are developing their own internal recruitment team to work on the position, then where will be the number of recruitment companies will do. Will they change their own profile or will they get vanished?
Please Discuss.
Views: 2670
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by bill josephson on
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Matthew, many of the specially recruiting cold calls are short either due to the person not being at their desk or not being interested. It's not difficult if planned out beforehand. Two full lined pages of names attempted between 2-3 times a day.
The goal is by making that volume there'll be 10 plus quality conversation which ensue, which you correctly pointed out.
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Permalink Reply by Tiffany Branch on
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Every TPR isn't superior just like every Corp recruiter is just some recruiting flunky. I've headed up a top notch in house recruitment team that had various sourcing and recruiting strategies for each position / group they supported. They were the top at finding talent. As a result of building the strength of the team we were able to reduce our use of TPS's, overall cost per hire and time to fill. What makes you think CR's don't know their competitors, market, industry people, etc???? What makes you think all they do is sit around and play with their thumbs???? One recruiter that worked for me spent time on the street, literally, looking for talent, when I worked for a high-end retailer. My recruiters can cold call and build networks just as well as a TPR.
Just because you may have experienced "poor" corporate recruiters doesn't mean that all are. I could say a ton of nasty things about TPR's but it wouldn't be right to stereotype. There are good and bad on both sides.
bill josephson said:Superior recruiting technique expertise.
There's lots to recruiting strategy, specially when it comes to finding/approaching passive candidates that a phone recruiting intensive TPR can be constantly sharpening.
A phone intensive TPR is far more in the trenches gaining proprietary information about companies and candidates than almost all Corporate Recruiters applying them daily getting their respective uniforms dirty every single phone call requiring superior phone dexterity and adaptability, along with seamlessly knowing how to most effectively respond as we can suffer every indignity at any time necessitating thick skin/varied approach.
Not only asking the right questions but knowing the protocol when best to and how to ask pursuing our objective.
The fact down and dirty over the phone recruiting is what some TPRs do ensures they'll be superior at it than Corporate types more on the Internet. Just like if we're both basketball players and I'm taking 500 practice shots a day whereas you're taking 50 while playing a simulated basketball game on the Internet, I'll likely become a more accurate shooter than you.
The issue is, is that your shooting success, if the company's "winning" hiring employees, may well be enough to not require a better shooter's services costing additional money.Good or very good is good enough. For the added cost great simply isn't required.
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"LIKE"
Amber said:I'm not sure it was meant to say that TPR's actually DO have superior skills, obviously anyone internal or external might have better "skills" then the next person. I think from a TPR viewpoint, the reasons a company with an internal might hire us are:
1. Yep, Amy - exactly. Volume is a common reason for sure.
2. "Sensitive" searches - again Amy hit it right on. The search that a company might not want to be widely acknowledged is another reason we get hired.
3. New teams - I know a lot of TPR's will disagree with me, but I have several clients that have changed/added internal folks to recruit (or manage "Talent Acquistion"). They hire us to help fill immediate needs while team ramps up. I have never been hesitant to provide advice / assistance to the new teams or their managers. (If asked!) I don't see this as working myself out of jobs, I think it will help the client choose me when they have a position they need help on.
There's not really special skills that only a TPR can have. There are sometimes tools, methods, or resources we might be able to use vs. an internal. Some companies have a lot of procedures, processes, etc. that can hamper an internal that are not applicable to a TPR. Of course, sometimes those get in our way, too!
Internal recruiters, job boards, SM, etc. are there. Every time things change, there has to be a fundamental basis for a company to need a TPR. If you're a decent recruiter, you'll keep getting work.
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You can make that many calls and still suck. I'd rather make 15 calls and get quality than 150 and get nothing. I also think it is probably easier to keep the potential candidates attention when you actually represent the company vs a TPR representing a company they can't reveal. I can make a contact at a competitor and within 3 minutes and a follow up email get addtional names and resumes from that same company.....usually people I can use immediately or in the near future. Because I actually meet with my managers and participate in their team mtgs, I don't have time to make 150 calls per day. I can actually use my hiring managers networks to get additional contacts. 1/2 the time, the hiring managers don't even realize that they already "know" their next hire.
bill josephson said:Amy, you missed the point I'm trying to make.
If a TPR outreach effort is 150-200 calls/day their skills as a recruiter will likely surpass any Corporate Recruiter's whose outreach is far less. Only makes sense the more you do anything repetitively with training the better you'll be at it than others doing so far less. You could be the best recruiter out there.But what I'm saying is superiority's immaterial when "less" is good enough. Getting the job done is what matters. Doesn't matter how good a TPR recruiter is or if superior to you. Bottom line is are you finding the people your employer needs you to find?
If the answer is yes, the company doesn't require employing the services of an outside superstar with fee cost when able to get the job done with their own resources. If you're able to access the same or enough quailty candidates to fill your opening, you don't need to utilize a TPR no matter how good a recruiter they might be.
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The point I was making was that it doesn't matter if a TPR is superior ro a Corporate Recruiter, or not.
The only thing that matters is the Corporate Recruiter is finding candidates cause, if so, TPR recruiters are obsolete no matter how superior they may be.
My comment had no intention of putting down Corporate Recruiters.
However, it stands to reason repetition makes for perfection. The more calls you make the better you are at it. Making 150 will almost always over time make one with reasonable skill superior. In the end, though, it doesn't matter if their services aren't required.
Tiffany Branch said:Every TPR isn't superior just like every Corp recruiter is just some recruiting flunky. I've headed up a top notch in house recruitment team that had various sourcing and recruiting strategies for each position / group they supported. They were the top at finding talent. As a result of building the strength of the team we were able to reduce our use of TPS's, overall cost per hire and time to fill. What makes you think CR's don't know their competitors, market, industry people, etc???? What makes you think all they do is sit around and play with their thumbs???? One recruiter that worked for me spent time on the street, literally, looking for talent, when I worked for a high-end retailer. My recruiters can cold call and build networks just as well as a TPR.
Just because you may have experienced "poor" corporate recruiters doesn't mean that all are. I could say a ton of nasty things about TPR's but it wouldn't be right to stereotype. There are good and bad on both sides.
bill josephson said:Superior recruiting technique expertise.
There's lots to recruiting strategy, specially when it comes to finding/approaching passive candidates that a phone recruiting intensive TPR can be constantly sharpening.
A phone intensive TPR is far more in the trenches gaining proprietary information about companies and candidates than almost all Corporate Recruiters applying them daily getting their respective uniforms dirty every single phone call requiring superior phone dexterity and adaptability, along with seamlessly knowing how to most effectively respond as we can suffer every indignity at any time necessitating thick skin/varied approach.
Not only asking the right questions but knowing the protocol when best to and how to ask pursuing our objective.
The fact down and dirty over the phone recruiting is what some TPRs do ensures they'll be superior at it than Corporate types more on the Internet. Just like if we're both basketball players and I'm taking 500 practice shots a day whereas you're taking 50 while playing a simulated basketball game on the Internet, I'll likely become a more accurate shooter than you.
The issue is, is that your shooting success, if the company's "winning" hiring employees, may well be enough to not require a better shooter's services costing additional money.Good or very good is good enough. For the added cost great simply isn't required.
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Yep, that's been my point all along and the point Rahul made in this blog.
Since Corporate Recruiters, with the aid of technology, can do the exact same function uncovering the same passive/invisible candidates as TPR's, it seems obvious most TPR's are seeing their income decreased and/or will become extinct--with some exceptions.
I know the battle for this TPR is client need/justification to use an outside recruiter as companies either have no jobs, or no need to use a TPR finding qualified candidates on their own. Paying clients are hard to come by from my experience for several years.
Tiffany Branch said:You can make that many calls and still suck. I'd rather make 15 calls and get quality than 150 and get nothing. I also think it is probably easier to keep the potential candidates attention when you actually represent the company vs a TPR representing a company they can't reveal. I can make a contact at a competitor and within 3 minutes and a follow up email get addtional names and resumes from that same company.....usually people I can use immediately or in the near future. Because I actually meet with my managers and participate in their team mtgs, I don't have time to make 150 calls per day. I can actually use my hiring managers networks to get additional contacts. 1/2 the time, the hiring managers don't even realize that they already "know" their next hire.
bill josephson said:Amy, you missed the point I'm trying to make.
If a TPR outreach effort is 150-200 calls/day their skills as a recruiter will likely surpass any Corporate Recruiter's whose outreach is far less. Only makes sense the more you do anything repetitively with training the better you'll be at it than others doing so far less. You could be the best recruiter out there.But what I'm saying is superiority's immaterial when "less" is good enough. Getting the job done is what matters. Doesn't matter how good a TPR recruiter is or if superior to you. Bottom line is are you finding the people your employer needs you to find?
If the answer is yes, the company doesn't require employing the services of an outside superstar with fee cost when able to get the job done with their own resources. If you're able to access the same or enough quailty candidates to fill your opening, you don't need to utilize a TPR no matter how good a recruiter they might be.
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Permalink Reply by Sandra McCartt on
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Bill's problem is twofold. He keeps doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results and he is so busy making 150 mindless cold calls a day that he hasn't thought about building relationships. They say the dodo bird became extinct because it flew in ever decreasing circles until it disappeared up it's own anal orafice. I suspect that will be the cause of the extinction of some recruiters. Ever decreasing circles 150 to 200 of them a day. Blat!
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Sandra, with all due respect every single contact you have was the result of a cold call at some point.
When your clients aren't hiring or using TPR's able to find people on their own and networks go cold there comes a point where you have make lots of calls to find new contacts able to utilize you.
My 150-200 outgoing calls are easily accomplished when recruiting often taking several attempts to reach someone. Within those calls will be 5-8 people you connect with having a productive conversation.
But what's most striking about your disparaging comments is your obliviousness to what Amy and Tiffany stated and my point above.
* They believe they're just as adept recruiters as any TPR, not inferior* They rarely see the need to use a TPR able to find people on their own.
My point was in response to Rahul's comment about TPR's sharpening our recruiting skills to stay market relevant. And that being a superior recruiter is immaterial provided a Corporate Recruiter is good enough to find hireable people on their own, thus making it tougher to find quality assignments to work on ensuring a steady stream of business as there's minimal cost justification for their using TPR's in the first place let along on an ongoing basis.
So we come full circle from previous interactions. My point is TPR's are losing relevance no matter how good they are cause Corporate Recruiters are able to find people on their own without paying fees thus utilizing us less, Tiffany and Amy validate this making my point, and you denigrate the messenger.
Which one of us is the "dodo?"
Sandra McCartt said:Bill's problem is twofold. He keeps doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results and he is so busy making 150 mindless cold calls a day that he hasn't thought about building relationships. They say the dodo bird became extinct because it flew in ever decreasing circles until it disappeared up it's own anal orafice. I suspect that will be the cause of the extinction of some recruiters. Ever decreasing circles 150 to 200 of them a day. Blat!
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Pay close attention... In 35 years I have probably made 10 cold calls. I started in this business with the thought that building relationships with people in the business community did not start with a stupid canned, cold call. They start with networking, being introduced or referred by another business person. Both candidates and clients. If one client or industry starts declining in need for my services I use the same method to develop new business and it's not done with cold calls. Any idiot can cold call like a trained monkey. A broken clock is right twice a day. Anybody can handle the mountain tops when everybody is hiring by throwing enough crap against the wall so some of it is bound to stick. Making 150 mindless cold calls calling the same person three times a day is the mark of desperation, stalking, being a pest or simply an irritating, buggy recruiter.
When big companies moved to good internal recruiters, TPR's with any savvy at all developed relationships with internals and became part of the team realizing that we would no longer be paid or needed to fill most mid management and below positions. We sure got some of the big ones that take time, deep contacts or difficult or became part of the team during an expansion hiring blitz. Here is another flash for you. In the history of the world there has never been a time when every industry was flat or we would all be posting whiney posts...and we aren't...have you noticed that?
At the same time bigger corps hired internals, TPR's with any savvy looked around and found mid size companies who were in growth mode. Smaller firms and companies who might not hire but four or five people a year. Here's some simple math for you. Ten small to medium size companies who need a TPR to hire five people equals 50 placements a year at average fee of 10k. If you can quit whining about being obsolete long enough do the math. Then throw 7 or 8 a year on top of that with the big ones at oh say, 20 to 30k. If you can quit making cold calls long enough and whining you might pick up an outplacement gig from one of those big companies who are merging, eliminating, reorganizing, outsourcing. Guess what. Internal recruiting teams do not do outplacement no matter how good they are but if you are the go to TPR your name is at the top of list whether it's one executive or 100 employees. Those little gigs come in at anyplace from 5k a month for six months per person or a three week seminar type offering at average 50k.
Ever heard of litigation support. We just finished a shadow jury today. Wed Of last week to today, recruit, screen, schedule 12 people to sit in a court room observe a trial, back to our office, interview them as to their thoughts about what they saw and heard as if they were the actual jury ( interviewing people is what we do right.)report to our attorney client what 12 people think and understand about the case. Our fee, 12 temps making us 5 bucks an hour 8 hours a day plus our fee for recruiting, interviewing and reporting 20k. Not a bad return for 5 days of two hours a day of our time.
Beating the drum of doom, whining about losing relevance because somebody else can do what you used to be the only one doing is simply being the messenger of gloom and doom. Try flying a different direction instead going around in mindless circles thinking you have proven anything if you can get somebody else to agree with you that you are in fact the extinct dodo bird.
I will always denigrate a whining messenger of gloom and doom. Keep beating that drum and you will find yourself marching to it. Most of the TPRs I know don't have time to worry about relevance..
We are too busy using our superior skills doing something other than making 150 mindless cold calls a day. Cold calls suck buttermilk right along with the irritating people who make a career out of counting them. If technology has made you the dodo bird, quit before you disappear.
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I suggest you listen to Tiffany and Amy's message.
They're "just as good recruiters as we are" taking offense if intimated they aren't.The requirement they have for a TPR's services today is rare as they "can readily handle almost all assignments, perhaps there's one over the course of the year released to a TPR."
This is what I commonly hear regardless of company size. And the Internal Contract Recruiters today, unlike 15-30 years ago, are now more the successful TPR's who've gone inside. If there were a more economically dynamic environment as TPR's, why would they go to the corporate side?Clearly you're to be applauded for fee earning creativity. Your ability in a challenging global economy winning local business engaged in non traditional local recruiting is commendable. Not everyone is as uniquely adaptable and clearly your establishing business contacts without cold calling approach has worked for you.
My business has always been discipline driven. Used to be drawing an arc between Providence, Worcester, MA, and Concord, NH generated enough business where I didn't have to go beyond 60 miles of Boston. Those days ended in the 1990's with mergers, acquisitions, and business failings starting in the 1990's recession requiring a national approach as the world began getting smaller.
Again, if you listen to the Corporate Recruiters here if they're looking to go TPR on an assignment, it will be one specializing in the appropriate discipline. So a TPR specializing in Accounting likely isn't winning an assignment from Amy for a Supply Chain position.
Again, Sandra, you are to be commended. My world is if my contacts can't utlize me and networked referrals they offer become dead ends my tack is to ramp up the phone outreach to "make new friends."
If that doesn't work, indeed, I and many others will become obsolete--on that I agree.
Most of the TPR's I know are on the Corporate side or doing something else.
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You don't get it Bill. If you are hearing that those you consider clients or did don't need you quit asking the same people the same questions and then posting long whiney posts about being pushed out of your bubble because you aren't needed.
I can't stand whiners, Whiney kids, whiney adults, naysayers, I don't find it that challenging. I work with internal recruiting teams every day and have never been told they don't need me. You have a specialized disipline it's called recruiting. You won't make new friends by whining about how bad the economy is or how nobody needs you anymore. You will however convince anybody who hears that crap that you are done, washed up, negative, and above all obsolete. If that is what you are trying to prove you have done one hell of a job convincing yourself and anybody who is bored enough to listen to the "poor me" crap that you would not be the one they would reach out to if they needed a TPR.
If everybody you know who is a TPR is on the corporate side or out of the business you really do need to make new friends but you won't achieve that by the "woe is me", nobody loves me anymore. Whiney BS never created a relationshp with anybody but your dog who only thinks you are relevant if you feed him once a day.
Of course Amy and Tiffany are as a good as we are, sometimes better so trying to gain any business or develop a relationship by flopping something out there about your "superior recruiting skills" is dumber than dirt. You dont' build a relationship with anybody by telling them you are better than they are at what they do you idiot. Amy may never need me ever but trust me if i ever decide there is a client in her neck of the woods that i want to recruit for, i would use her as a referral reference and i would bet i would get it. Know why? Because she is a damn good recruiter and she knows i know it and have said so. Mutual respect builds a lot more relationships than any clap trap about TPR's having any kind of superior skills.
Get over your cheap self and become relevant some place instead of whining. No charge for obvious advice.
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If you believe, Sandra, there isn't increasingly fierce resistance to paying TPR fees and that companies aren't more frequently going it alone not listening to the Corporate Recruiters posting here, then I'll give you the last word.
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