Words of Wisdom on Name Generation From Mike Johnson of Avature (And A Few Comments of My Own, Of Course)

Wow - when I see business professionals telling the truth, it's like a breath of fresh air. Wouldn't you agree? So I was reading through my typical morning run of blogs and forums to keep abreast of best practices in the recruiting world, and I see the following comment from Mike Johnson of Avature (Global Director of Business Development):

"In all honesty, the Internet is filled with information on names and people you might want to recruit. I don't think that finding them is the real challenge anymore. Between Google, LinkedIN, ZoomInfo, Jigsaw (although I'm finding that the contact databases are just filled with LinkedIN names now so I'm having trouble justifying that cost anymore) and others you can pretty much find any professional you want . . . "

Mike, Kudos for your honesty and integrity! (His candor is especially resonant because he leads global biz dev efforts for offshore research and name generation.) His comments are exactly what I've been saying all along while contrarians come to the table and say, "Well, you can't get names unless you know gatekeeper slang here in the U.S." Gatekeeper slang? What? Or I'll hear, "Well, 'Indians' don't understand our org charts here." What? 'Indians' don't understand how to draw org charts and use them for visual reference? Often, these ridiculous statements come from 2 primary groups:

I. Telephone Name Generators in the U.S. who don't want competition, because when supply goes up and demand remains constant, prices go down.

Here's why: It's a basic law of Economics, but most only like to admit market realities and supply-demand imbalances when they work in their favor (whether this relates to real estate, falling market salaries, asset depreciation, etc.).

II. Telephone Name Generation Training Firms who have created the very supply-demand imbalance that has commoditized name generation in the first place.

Here's Why: Training firms exist to make a profit - the same is especially true of Telephone Name Generation Training Firms. These firms don't suddenly grow a conscience for and/or loyalty to U.S. workers when someone offshore reaches out their hand with a few bucks in it. Oh, Sandeep in India wants to pay for training? Ring the cash register. Oh, Maria in Argentina wants to pay for training? Ring the register. Luan in Vietnam? Ring it up. But doesn't this represent globalization at its core? Sure it does! As the supply of workers in emerging economies increases, companies look to capitalize on the lower wages . . . this is true whether we're investigating a manufacturing process or a recruiting process. Removing inefficiencies and unnecessary costs are hallmarks of good business minds.

However, here is the difference: Although Telephone Name Generation Training Firms have accelerated telephone name sourcing globalization, nobody wants to admit it. It's not easy to look Johnny and Suzie (U.S. Telephone Sourcers) in the eye and tell them that you just sold the same training out the back door to Sandeep, Luan, and Maria in emerging economies . . . which is going to push down their hourly rate and cost-per-name prices. As long as Johnny and Suzie don't know the truth, that globalization is inevitable and Telephone Name Generation Training Firms are accelerating it, they'll keep coming back to the same cash register without realizing they're being deceptively commoditized. These training firms don't mind selling training to anyone anywhere in the world . . . but don't like to admit it in the forums, chat rooms, and blogs. Indeed, it's an inconvenient truth.

In closing, let me say that not too many business professionals want to tell the truth. But that's not Mike Johnson of Avature. He's the real deal in my book.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ted Moore on July 10, 2008 at 11:46am

The Internet is, indeed, filled with people you might want to recruit. And I employ a smart person right here in Ohio to dig up those names.

Which are the same names you'll dig up.

So, while you're calling them, I will be too.

The difference is, I'll also be calling folks whose names came to me from any of a number of telephone sourcers I've worked with over the years. Every time I get a list from one of them, my in-house researcher Googles each name, one by one, and otherwise looks through the Internet for those same people.

The exact percentage of "cross-hits", as we call them, is a State Secret, but if you have a son or daughter in Junior High School, it would be in the same range as his or her age.

So, being the hyper-competitive guy that I am, I strongly encourage you to subscribe wholeheartedly to Mr. Johnson's views as expressed here. In fact, I'd like to forward Mr. Letourneau's post to as many of my fellow recruiters as possible.

Because, you know, it's the real deal.

Happy hunting.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Levy on July 10, 2008 at 1:21pm

While the Internet may be filled with names, only a neophyte would believe that this encompasses the Universe... with so many fishing from the same lake, there certainly does exist a diminishing marginal utility from sourcing using this strategy.

Which is fine and dandy Josh; I'm certain you'll keep writing your words of wisdom aimed at marshaling sentiment against the contrarians while these contrarians continue to earn a nice living offering a broader business offering to their clients.

Freedom's a beautiful thing, right? That is why you were a Marine, right?

Just exactly what is your agenda here?

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Permalink Reply by Joshua Letourneau on July 11, 2008 at 9:44am

Steve, I don't really know what you mean - does something I wrote offend you in some way? What does the Marine Corps have to do with name generation or freedom? You lost my on that. Anyway, let me answer your questions:

Freedom's a beautiful thing, right? I like freedom and think it's a beautiful thing.

That is why you were a Marine, right? No. I didn't think many join the Marines thinking about freedom. Along the same train of thought, were you not a Marine because you believe freedom is not a beautiful thing? I'm sure you can see the ridiculousness of such a question.

Just what exactly is your agenda here? I don't have an agenda here.

You've lost me in suggesting that Mike's comments or my own observations might be analogous to a neophyte, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Look, I know I am in a position to get a boulder tossed on my head under the perception that I'm threatening a money stream. The truth is that technology is catching up to a point where the data is aggregated when the names are generated (via phone, internet, etc.) As more information is stored, it's more accessible at lower cost.

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Permalink Reply by 01. Lonnie McRorey on November 12, 2008 at 4:40pm

Hi Joshua,

I totally agree with you. I do Name Generation the old fashioned way- Pick up the phone and call our clients competitors. We are a group of US recruiters combined with Argentine, French, German recruiters living in Argentina (Ti22 Associates-Connecticut HQ's).

Now here is something to throw into the soup. Imagine a large group of Ex-Pats providing high quality recruitment and sourcing services at a fraction of the cost. Wouldn't that be prudent business planning and creating an ROI that best fits clients interests? I think too many recruiters back home become complaisant and are scared of someone stepping on their toes. Globalization is key here - the world is flat and new paradigms are emerging. Reminds me when many large corporate business leaders said the internet is a fad..."We don't need internet...America should be investing in Television" LOL. Corporate America is about profit and if you can deliver High quality at low prices its a win win situation.

GREAT ARTICLE!

BTW- I'm a US NAVY Gulf War Vet- CV 64 Constellation

Best regards

Lonnie

Joshua Letourneau said:

Steve, I don't really know what you mean - does something I wrote offend you in some way? What does the Marine Corps have to do with name generation or freedom? You lost my on that. Anyway, let me answer your questions:

Freedom's a beautiful thing, right? I like freedom and think it's a beautiful thing.

That is why you were a Marine, right? No. I didn't think many join the Marines thinking about freedom. Along the same train of thought, were you not a Marine because you believe freedom is not a beautiful thing? I'm sure you can see the ridiculousness of such a question.

Just what exactly is your agenda here? I don't have an agenda here.

You've lost me in suggesting that Mike's comments or my own observations might be analogous to a neophyte, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Look, I know I am in a position to get a boulder tossed on my head under the perception that I'm threatening a money stream. The truth is that technology is catching up to a point where the data is aggregated when the names are generated (via phone, internet, etc.) As more information is stored, it's more accessible at lower cost.