I left my former legal recruiting firm after 8 years recently to start my own shop. The entire time I was with my former firm, I was singled out as the best performing recruiter the agency had ever had and the owner had often referred to me as her partner (though I was not). After not being able to convince me to stay, upon my departure, my boss and I had a discussion of what would happen with my commissions if she placed any of my candidates within a relatively short period of time after my departure. It had always been her feeling that if a recruiter was not employed on the date of an offer and acceptance, that recruiter was entitled to nothing even though, but for that recruiter, there wouldn't be a placement. I had strongly disagreed with this idea and told her I believed that after 8 years of service, I deserved to be compensated for the work I put into bringing the placements along even if I wasn't there when and offer and acceptance happened. She agreed to compensate me (probably not at the 50% I would receive if still employed but an amount she would determine depending upon ho much work she had to do to close the deal). I left believing she would make good on her word. Well....

Now, that she has placed two of my candidates (they were referred to me personally not her agency, she never met either candidate and I chose which firms the candidates should be presented to and I set up the initial interviews and debriefed them before I left the firm). The commissions she has made come to $102K on these 2 placements and she has told me she has no recollection of offering to compensate me in any way. She says I am entitled to nothing.

As you can imagine, I am pretty unhappy. Why is our business so mean and cuthroat? Why can't recruiters stick together so that agency owners can't take advantage of the recruiters like this. I wish I could start an organization for recruiters rights! I would love some feedback from other legal recruiters. Many Thanks! Casey

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Thanks for the advice, too. It is all food for thought.



Joshua Letourneau said:
Casey, make it a point to earn that $102k back as fast as you can. Set yourself a goal to do so. I was in a partnership and walked away being owed $40k. It stung, but I made it a point to recover it through hard and intelligent work. It's just money - paper. It comes and goes, and it's more about what we do with it than how much we can stockpile.

Which brings me to the point that Startups take capital. The rest is just conversation.

I mean that - once you start your own firm and start putting all the sweat equity needed, your outlook will change in terms of what you determine to be 'fair' (quite the subjective term). I'm not saying you're right, or she's right - I'm just saying that each and every day, there is somebody complaining about commissions they should have made, deals they could have closed, or candidates they might have known. Losers talk in terms of 'woulda-beens', 'coulda-beens', and 'shoulda-beens' . . . so make it a point to earn that 100 Gs back and you'll have the last laugh.

I consider myself a nice guy and would give a friend the shirt off my back if they needed it. I've also never knocked anyone out at a bar that didn't ask me to first. However, there is a point where you can become "too nice" - and people will feed on that if they can exploit this trait. Family will be the first to get in line . . . I digress.

One of my favorite lines is from American Gangster, and it's good to always keep it in mind when you're launching a new business:

"Success has enemies, Frank. You can be successful and have enemies . . . or be unsuccessful and have friends."

If you're launching a business to directly compete with her, what does she have to lose? Yes, I consider myself an ethical person, which is why I believe in contracts. It's ethical and 'fair' to have everything spelled out upfront. Secret handshakes didn't work in the 20s or 30s any more than they work today.
Never signed a non-compete Karen.

Sandra, I think you're right. I'm just going to move on and chalk this up to a rather unpleasant experience. I think to fight her would just be so negative that it would not make it worth my while.



KarenM said:
your words to me a few weeks ago... how come we never hear about them...

thing is these claims happen more frequently than we know, but we never hear about them, because the Government allows for the cases to be Closed /Sealed / Kept Confidential in settlements, due to the protection of both the company and Candidate.

Overtime will be based upon average wages incurred

Also in regards to competing with your boss - did you sign a confidentiality agreement?

Sandra McCartt said:
LOL, Casey, i would suggest to you that as a legal recruiter you made a lot more money than minimum wage. As a practical matter i wouldn't want to be the legal recruiter who went to the DOL to stir up some goofy misclassification claim. Those things have a way of getting around the legal community fast.
As one legal recruiter to another if you can't work it out with your ex boss, partner or whatever your agreement was, write it off and move on to establish your own business. It will only take two placements to more than recoup what you left on the table. Energy better spent.

Manatees are sometimes called sea cows, and their languid pace lends merit to the comparison. However, despite their massive bulk, they are graceful swimmers in coastal waters and rivers. Powering themselves with their strong tails, manatees typically glide along at 5 miles (8 kilometers) an hour but can swim 15 miles (24 kilometers) an hour in short bursts.

Manatees are usually seen alone, in pairs, or in small groups of a half dozen or fewer animals. From above the water's surface, the animal's nose and nostrils are often the only thing visible. Manatees never leave the water but, like all marine mammals, they must breathe air at the surface. A resting manatee can remain submerged for up to 15 minutes, but while swimming, they must surface every three or four minutes.

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Manatees are born underwater. Mothers must help their calves to the surface so that they can take their first breath, but the infants can typically swim on their own only an hour later.

Manatee calves drink their mothers' milk, but adults are voracious grazers. They eat water grasses, weeds, and algae—and lots of them. A manatee can eat a tenth of its own massive weight in just 24 hours.

Manatees are large, slow-moving animals that frequent coastal waters and rivers. These attributes make them vulnerable to hunters seeking their hides, oil, and bones. Manatee numbers declined throughout the last century, mostly because of hunting pressure. Today, manatees are endangered. Though protected by laws, they still face threats. The gentle beasts are often accidentally hit by motorboats in ever-more -crowded waters, and sometimes become entangled in fishing nets.
LOVE THIS LASSIE PHOTO! It made me smile.


Jerry Albright said:

I'm glad you enjoyed it. Must have been pretty quick though cuz I deleted it and went with the manatee instead. I thought the gentle sea cow would add a bit more to the discussion!

Good luck Casey.

I should add though - my CLOSED post was only contributed as an individual. I was not speaking with any jurisdiction or official authority for the RBC team. They may like these occassional pseudo-legal disagreements. I can go either way.............

KarenM said:
sorry, posted before I saw that..

Loved the manatee post, as well as the Lassie as well...

Thanks for the change of conversation.. hopefully we can move on..


Jerry Albright said:

I would like to personally invite both Sandra and Karen to www.recruitfest.com because it would be virtually impossible to leave Toronto anything other than future lifelong friends.

What do you say ladies? Let's party!
I'll leave you in the Undecided group then for now. Thanks for considering it. Hopefully we'll see you there. (If I'm reading you right.)

Sandra McCartt said:
Should i say, thank you Jerry but no thank you. You go party with Karen, my dance card is full.

So it looks like Karen and Sandra are looking into the feasability of burying the hatchet in Toronto. Might I be the first to say, ladies "BRAVO". See this is what social media's all about. Getting into the ring with your ideas and no matter who says what - at the end of the day - raising a glass in celebration of the striking similarites between us all.

Gold stars all around. Hear hear!
I'm beginning to think these throwdowns are staged :) And if they're not, I'd pay to see a Karen versus Sandra throwdown in Toronto.

Despite an appearance by the incomparable Gerry Crispin (the smartest, most insightful, and difference-making person in our entire space), Karen vs. Sandra would easily be the main attraction.

I'm calling Don King to see if he can set it up right now. I'm willing to bet the pre-fight conference would wind up on a new list of "The Top 10 Boxing Press Conference Brawls" :)

Now if I may, I'd like to return to square-dancing tonight :)

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