The truth is?

Telling the truth?

"How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four; calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg,"A. Lincoln.
Here's a great example of an absolute truth. I think most logical people will agree absolute truths exist. Of course obvious & indisputable fact can't be argued; but, that's not where I was wanting to go with this. I was pondering those truths that shouldn't be told or lies that are said because of social pressure. You know the simple ones, where you will spin an acceptable lie. Such as,"there's just more to love" instead of saying your a fat pig, who would be lucky to get loved! Honest truth probably adds weight to most of us. But that would be just rude & unkind & any decent person wouldn't share that thought. Again, that's not where I was still wanting to go. No, I'm thinking of those gray area, where we make up a story to get out of meeting someone or embellish our accomplishments to get promoted. The one where you ask yourself, where's the harm, I'm trying to save face or others feelings.
Just the other day, I had a business acquaintance friend ask me to help support a cause that they believed very deeply in; however, I on the other hand believe the opposite to be true. I did the quick brush off & tried to change the subject. That didn't work however, as they persisted to go on about how great a cause it was, "please donate whatever you can to help us."
As a business I get inundated with request all the time. Although we do a lot, especially for children, there's no way it's feasible to support every cause. So, I'm use to denying request. However, because it's a business friend & this could be a hot topic, possibly costing the friendship & future work over an ideological difference. Is it worth it to stand on my beliefs?

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Permalink Reply by Jacqueline Bozorgi on November 3, 2009 at 10:10am

Is it worth it to stand on your beliefs? I think so. As long as it is done in politely, I think blunt honesty can be necessary sometimes. If you don't want to support a cause you do not believe in, what is the harm in telling them why, as long as you throw in that their opinions do not alter the relationship you have with them and that you hope they give you that same respect as well.

If they don't, and they judge you on your opinions, they may not be the best friend to have. Maybe you lose a business connection in the future, but you were true to yourself and I believe that is very important.

Saying "This is a lie! This is a matter of fact or fiction, not opinion, and it is FICTION!" may not go over as well. ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Steve van horn on November 3, 2009 at 1:55pm

Thank you ladies for replying, all I can say is, "true that", lol. Of course I have standards & morals that I believe & live by. Although, because of my own weakness I stumble, but in principle I'm very strong. I was really asking, in business, especially one like mine where networking & connections really help promote me, how do you gentle deny a connection, or should I deny a connection just because I'm let's say, a dog person & they want to save kittens. I have nothing morally opposed to cats, just I'm more a man's best friend kinda guy. The real senerio was a bit more, shall we say, edgy, but you get the point. Again, thank you all for your feedback.
FYI, about that skirt Rayanne... ;-) lol

KarenM said:

Is it worth it to stand on my beliefs? YES! but that is what I believe.. it isn't the truth for everyone. Unfortunately there are No clear guidelines of dealing with problems of each individuals personal interpretation of obligation and personal conscience, so who makes these guidelines for us? The law? So many of us will not do or say anything to assist another, unless we see a legal infraction taking place, and maybe not even then..

Steve, I am finally coming to understand that it takes all kinds to make this world, and that what is good for me, isn't obviously going to be what works for another. We all have our own truths and beliefs that work for us all..

Personally, I wouldn’t be able to carry on a normal life, if I felt that I could have done something to help another if there is an opportunity, or ability, but hadn’t.. and especially if I know that I could have done something or was aware of the problems that could occur..

My father in law always said that in life everyone has their own truths, and we change our truths via our life experiences.. Ironically, my life experiences, have given me more desire to be stronger with my voice, not allay it..

AS *MLK one of the most respected leaders for peaceful protest stated -- "the ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and conveniences, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy"

(*For the record, I do not liken myself to MLK ;) but, have found him to have been one of the biggest advocates for Peace and love - (with respect to the human race, believe that we all have the same ability of the greatest leaders of the world, if we each chose and have the ability to apply ourselves - at the same token, we can also be the worst of the worst as well, again if we chose to apply ourselves))

But, at the same time, - as obama stated “How does each of us remain firm in our principles, and fight for what we consider right, without demonizing those with just as strongly held convictions on the other side?”

My father in law always said that in life everyone has their own truths, and we change our truths via our life experiences.. Ironically, my life experiences, have given me more desire to be stronger with my voice, not allay it..

This is what works for me, and this is what drives me.. but at the same time, others may believe that their friendships are more important.. so, is there really a right or wrong? Or does it come down to the individual truth of the individual?

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Permalink Reply by Thomas Patrick Chuna on November 3, 2009 at 4:57pm

Would you be friend with the guy if you had met him outside of work?

how important is the guy? if his cause succeeds, how will it cost you? will it cost you?

if you really like the guy, and deem him important, flip him twenty bucks and tell him that normally you confine your giving to some specific causes, but because he's who he is, and he's the one asking, you'll help out this one time.

he should get the message, and you're helping him for the right reason - because you value him, regardless of his beliefs.

if you absolutely can't do it, then be gently direct, and tell him you can't, and that you're sorry you can't. unless the guy is militant and looking for a fight, it shouldn't be a big deal...and not that you would, but this isn't the time to lecture him about your beliefs..that'll nuke the relationship right there.

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Permalink Reply by Thomas Patrick Chuna on November 4, 2009 at 8:21am

Really think so Karen? I seem to recall another thread where you considered my way of thinking to be a character flaw..or at least the start of the slippery slope towards the abandonment of ones moral compass.

I'll take consistency for 100 please, jack.

KarenM said:

Great point Thomas.. especially if one is helping for the right reason, or what is the cost..

it really isn't black and white is it.. sometimes it may be the battle versus the war.. Think Rayanne once said it, that sometimes one has to ask, is it really worth it..

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Permalink Reply by Steve van horn on November 4, 2009 at 12:23pm

Uh, OK. Thanks?

KarenM said:

Thomas.. if you remember I sent you a personal email, off line; in which I had mentioned to you that my comments had not been addressed to you - and actually your name had not even been mentioned within those comments.. My comments had addressed the individual by name to whose post I had responded.

I really don't think there is a black and white in this. MHO if what you are doing is Not allowing harm to another person.. but actually doing good, or supporting and helping another.. then I do agree with you... Why not help.. then the battle and war analogy works here.. are your really going against principles at this time?

But, if the person wants you to help or assist in something that could cause harm to another - or if your lack of action still allows for another to be harmed, whether it be emotionally, physically or mentally then yes, my stance stays.. One must stand for your principles.. at least that is my belief.

As I mentioned earlier, it is through a recent conversation, both off and online, that it is in recognizing that we all will have different values and beliefs that we find important. How we handle them will also be different. Some would prefer to walk away, and do nothing.. Some want to be an observer and do nothing, and some will want to do everything in that power to help stop, and others want to help repair the damage done

It is difficult for me to stand and watch, and do nothing, especially if I know there is a better way. A
the same time, it is still difficult for me to see others do nothing as well.. because Silence Can Be Interpreted as Acceptance - and silence gives power to others..

But, who am I to understand or know what makes you who you are? or why one did or does what one does.. is it fear? it is a life experience that makes one not wish to travel down paths once traveled, or replay old tapes?

All I know for sure is me.. I do believe it is worth standing by your beliefs no matter what.. and to do everything w/in one's power to always make sure to prevent someone from being harmed
but that is just me

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Permalink Reply by Thomas Patrick Chuna on November 4, 2009 at 8:41pm

KarenM - "Thomas.. if you remember I sent you a personal email, off line; in which I had mentioned to you that my comments had not been addressed to you - and actually your name had not even been mentioned within those comments.. My comments had addressed the individual by name to whose post I had responded"

Umm, no.. you specifically said, "Jerry, Et Al, who believe blah, blah blah."

“Et al.’ is a scholarly abbreviation of the Latin phrase et alia, which means “and others.” It is commonly used when you don’t want to name all the people or things in a list, and works in roughly the same way as “etc.”

so if you mention one fellows name, use the latin phrase meaning "and others", and then proceed to repeat my stated position in derisive terms, guess what? you're talking about me too...in a manner that I found offensive.

And now in THIS thread, my same thought process is ok with you..I swear, participating in threads with you is like being in a washing machine, first it's this way, then it's that way, round and round we go.

Oh, by the way - "the world is evil, not because bad people do bad things, but because good people do nothing to stop it." -- I believe Albert Einstein said it first"

Actually, it was Edmund Burke who said it.

Sorry to crap up your thread, Steve..i'll stop now.