Sacred Vows or Sacred Cows?

We have a dilemma brewing and I dunno if any of you have noticed it. I WISH I had this problem to address on my sites. Be that as it may, here goes:

BadGuys are chomping at the bit to have at it with Aggie in his RBC blog posting about his RPO Recruitment Process Offsourcing/shoring services where he proclaims: “We are specialized in providing RPO services.”

Jason feels the criticism in the string has become nasty and vitriolic (actually he called it vicious and intimidating, “…like a gang ganged up on somebody.”)

Uh, yeah. That would be the BadGuys gang. Hey, I unnerstan’ perfectly well how Agastus Naik’s service could save 80% in recruitment costs for a client in two month – I’ve been doing that for 'nigh on thirteen years myself! But it’s the approach that has everyone up in arms – now, before any fingers start pointing let it be known I’m not claiming any Miss Innocence title here – I learned the hard lessons that Mr. Naik is about to discover a long time ago.

Our mission states:
We are a hit squad. A roaming band of vigilante commenters. Our target: hot air recruiting bloggers
Those of us in the Bad Guys gang have our own formulas to run up against – we can either be listed or black-listed to the following categories:
Currently Active Members
Supposed To Be Active Members
Membership Status Unclear
Don't Seem To Belong Here
So what the heck are we supposed to do? We have taken sacred vows. When we see a frothy target we are sworn to aim (or knock).

Bang bang bang on the door baby!
Knock a little louder baby!
Bang bang bang on the door baby!
I can't hear you
Bang bang on the door baby
Bang bang on the door
Bang bang on the door baby
Bang bang
You're what?... Tin roof, rusted!
Lyrics
Song

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Recruiting Animal on March 18, 2009 at 8:47am
Ami, you are being a prig and a pedant. We all know you're an anarchist of the highest order but would you like to live in a crime ridden area without police? No.

Likewise, we all agree that a blog cannot be allowed to go to the dogs. But we don't all agree when it's time to call in the dogs to hound them out.

That's the kind of anarchy Mo is referring to. The anarchy of the lumpenproletariat. Not the superior anarchy of fine proletarians like yourself who have internalized decent values so that no one has to impose order upon them.
Permalink Reply by Claudia Faust on March 18, 2009 at 8:57am
I'm sorry, could you repeat that?

Amitai Givertz said:
a) it's use of the term "anarchy" in the pejorative indicates no understanding of self-governance, society without centralized authority or free love...
Permalink Reply by Jerry Albright on March 18, 2009 at 9:27am
I'm getting the idea our theme has switched a bit though....

To me - Bad Boys should be about holding blog writers to some degree of accountability for their posts. We have so many experts out here pumping out their "knowledge" daily we need to be the guys (gals) that say "hey - wait a minute - what are you saying here?" or "have you YOURSELF actually practiced what you are preaching?"

I guess in the case of Agastus he just came on with such an attitude that it went a bit further than those threads typically do. In fact - when Steve put up a post totally unrelated to any of that - Agastus more or less tried to start something else.

So what am I saying? I'm not hear to beat people up on anything OTHER than their background and experience when it comes to preaching to us all. It's that simple for me. Exploring will lead to all of us learning a bit whether by seeing things differently or reminding ourselves of what we already know.
Permalink Reply by Recruiting Animal on March 18, 2009 at 9:44am
Jerry Jerry said: (edited)

Let me explain our mission.

We want to make blog writers accountable for the silly things they say. There are so many darn "experts" out there pumping their so-called knowledge into the recruitosphere, that we need a clean-up crew for environmental protection.

Someone who will stand up and ask: "Hey, guys, hold on there! Have you ever done those things you're talking about?

But that doesn't mean that we're bad guys. It's just that when there are no cops, you need vigilantes. And it's hard to be a lone voice in the wilderness. So, to be effective you need to organize a crew.
Permalink Reply by Maureen Sharib on March 18, 2009 at 9:50am
We want to make blog writers accountable for the silly things they say. There are so many darn "experts" out there pumping their so-called knowledge into the recruitosphere, that we need a clean-up crew for environmental protection Someone who will stand up and ask those guys: "Hey, hold on there! Have you ever done those things you're talking about?

Then, Animal, the next question that comes naturally to my mind is this:
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
It's all very complicated, isn't it? I feel a headache coming on...
;)
Permalink Reply by Recruiting Animal on March 18, 2009 at 10:01am
Who will watch the watchers? Please Maureen, what's with the Latin? You want everyone to know you went to Catholic school?

Let's say you've signed on to the broom-sweepers. Does that make you immune? No.
Let's say Ami wants to start his own gang. I know it's impossible. But let's say it's true.
Is anyone going to stop him?

We're talking about people who are recruitosphere patriots, concerned citizens spending their own time turning postings that are made out of pablum into a discussion of real issues.

Is there anything wrong with that? If you think so, come on the show today and say so.

Maureen Sharib said:
Permalink Reply by Maureen Sharib on March 18, 2009 at 10:05am
Regardless of what I think, I'll be there with bells on.
Permalink Reply by Steve Levy on March 18, 2009 at 10:46am
Communities without standards promote anarchy; communities that act positively but with an eye on positive change practice civil disobedience. Mind you, we're giving Agastus far more press than he could ever generate himself with his have-you-heard-about-RPO approach...to a recruiting community, no less! If by the grace of God he generates any business from our community, he owes us.

The larger issue is one of growth. And I won't be getting puppy-dog-nice in explaining this: This community has value and this value must be invested and protected. While none of us have shares in the enterprise - much like a co-op - I suspect that we still have a vision for this place and things that detract from the vision need to be "assessed."

IMO, Agastus broke a cardinal rule when he decided to post his ad - he "assumed" that no one here ever heard of RPO and that by simply posting a large number we'd fawn in its presence like a 14 year old would upon seeing a revered rock star.

Now I am do this in the presence of Ami, Animal, Jerry or Maren but sorry - not vendors.

If you want to communicate the benefits of your product or service, throw money at RBC - buy and ad or sponsor a contest. But lay off the spam.
Permalink Reply by lisa rokusek on March 18, 2009 at 11:27am
Agastus didn't really bother me. We all try to put our best foot forward when we talk about ourselves in business. Heck, sometimes I think that prospective clients are trained to buy from the blowhards and folks with some modesty or perspective don't trigger buying signals as much.

What chaps my arse are the self-proclaimed experts who have no idea about that of which they speak. People just saying stuff because suddenly there is an audience, and who are often completely irresponsible in the "expert advice" they give.

When I post I give a lot of thought about the ramifications of what I say, and how I say it. I feel that participating in this medium requires that I hold myself to a standard of conduct and critical thinking. Just my opinion, but I think that in this Web 2.0/SMedia world not than many people think that effort is important. Not just in the recruiting world, but in the whole darn twitterverse blogosphere or anywhere we get to spew what we think. The allure of an audience is great, as is the attraction of faux celebrity.

This week there were some prime examples of irresponsible behavior writ large - the juror twittering in a 12 million dollar case, and Jeremiah O (a Forrester Senior Analyst no less) shooting off his mouth on his blog in a way that required a public apology the next day.

Accountability is important, and it is up to us to ask it of each other. Not as a popularity contest, or a mob with pitchforks (those are some of the dangers I see with SMedia) but as sober minded business people who demand the best of ourselves and our profession.
Permalink Reply by Recruiting Animal on March 18, 2009 at 11:35am
Steve, I think it's valid to promote your service but as part of a discussion about the way it meets your needs - or doesn't.

Then it's just like a question about recruiting technique.

I've interviewed Maureen about her service. Now people know how a freelance sourcer works. If they wanted to ask questions, they were free to challenge us both in public. No one called in though.

And I've done some long (and funny) interviews with him Shally.

They're both selling their services but there was a lot of good information and people were free to challenge what they said.

If you don't wait for the animal to interview you but go ahead and do it yourself and handle the feedback, I have no beef with that.
Permalink Reply by Maureen Sharib on March 18, 2009 at 11:41am
Animal, you see what Lisa said?
Accountability is important, and it is up to us to ask it of each other. Not as a popularity contest, or a mob with pitchforks (those are some of the dangers I see with SMedia) but as sober minded business people who demand the best of ourselves and our profession.
I have a feeling she'd make a great guest on the radio show!
Permalink Reply by Steve Levy on March 18, 2009 at 11:57am
I agree but this is where Mr. Eighty-Percent veered off course - the "RPO is a hammer and everything else is a nail" approach. I think recruiting has progressed at least to the point where people recognize dubious sales techniques (but then again as I write this, I recall that a sucker is born every minute) and respond - or don't respond - accordingly. The choices faced when someone inserts themselves into a discussion with a message that that has nothing to do with the discussion, are to ignore them - or respond to them.

I responded to his post in the BountyJobs thread by questioning his approach...then all heck broke loose. His post was off topic and insulting and yet how many eyeballs did it send to his company's site where they make no mention of specific clients?

Recruiting Animal said:
Steve, I think it's valid to promote your service but as part of a discussion about the way it meets your needs - or doesn't.

Then it's just like a question about recruiting technique.

I've interviewed Maureen about her service. Now people know how a freelance sourcer works. If they wanted to ask questions, they were free to challenge us both in public. No one called in though...They're both selling their services but there was a lot of good information and people were free to challenge what they said...

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