MagicMethod Midnight Moves Chat Log August 23-24, 2008
First ever Midnight chat on RBC!
Best Night Line
"Yes, if you have movies with "live" soundtracks that would probably give me enough to pick up the stress patterns where you are manipulating your victims."
~ John Kennedy
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"Sourcing In the Midnight Hours"
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RecruiterGuy I'll post here when I get my beta back. I got a confirmation.
Denyse Diem ps - fonolo is not accepting new emails
Denyse Diem I think that name's gonna stick JK - I mean Lil' Ray!
Maureen Good night! Spread the word!
Adam Peterson thanks jason and maureen (and can't forget lil ray)
John Kennedy later, all ...
Adam Peterson g'nite all you east coasters!
John Kennedy Probably will be asleep then but will be looking forward to the transcript
Maureen See you next week - send me your ideas for topics you'd like to see discussed!
Maureen Good night Jason. Thank you all for attending this first ever MagicMethod Midnight Moves Phone Sourcing Chat - you've made RBC history!
Denyse Diem great for next week I guess! will be throwing a big b'day bash for hubbie so w't be able to make it next week.
John Kennedy used to work alot of 2 to 10's at the TV stations
Maureen I forgot to talk about sourcing in manufacturing - 2nd and 3rd shift workers are ever so helpful!
Jason Davis Maureen, I'll leave it like this till tomorrow am. I need to hit the sack
John Kennedy 3 to midnight, 5 to 1, something like that
Maureen 2nd being 6-3 ?
John Kennedy 3rd freaks me out a bit as by the time I wake up at or whatever the next day I can't tell "this morning" from "yesterday"
John Kennedy I do best 2nd ...
Maureen Maybe we can talk about that next time - how to best use your Body's Time Clock
John Kennedy I have been 1st for years now and I still can't get used to it
Denyse Diem insomniac JK?
Maureen So you're a Night Owl John?
John Kennedy Don't know if this would be it ... but definitely something to think about
Maureen Let's keep an eye out for subjects we can bring to chat on this issue - show and tell!
John Kennedy But I have been looking for something to get me back on 2nd or 3rd shift for a while
Adam Peterson "Dark Side Sourcing"
Maureen Dark Time Sourcing
Maureen I like that idea John and will think on it.
John Kennedy Where YOU would have vendors that employ ... well ... techniques best exercised in the dark
Maureen Jason, I find this chat kinda "sticky" to use. Though it could be MY clumsy fingers.
Denyse Diem Thanks again Maureen. Have a great Sunday everyone!
Maureen I wish I could type! I will fix the spelling errors in the transcript.
John Kennedy Interesting ... perhaps there could be ANOTHER bifurcation into "Daylight" and "Vampire" sourcing
RecruiterGuy As usual.. great chat, Maureen.
Maureen Night time "assaults", as you'd all them, accomplish this many times.
Maureen AND YOU NEED TO GET THROUGH.
Maureen That's not so true John. There are times when daytime work (Gatekeeperson, Admins, Exec Assts) just aren't "hacking" it.
Adam Peterson not from me - learned a lot. thank you Maureen!
Maureen Anyone have any questions?
Maureen We'll do this again next Saturday and keep it up for awhile to see how it goes...
John Kennedy So of the remaining % it sounds like so many more come from a full frontal gatekeeper run that anything additional you'd get at night may not even be worth the time
Maureen 80/20 applies when sourcing - spend 20% Internet sourcing/research and 80% on the phone
John Kennedy And, well, the 30% active would have been taken care of before they made it to sourcers ...
RecruiterGuy other than my work schedule going nuts sometimes... I'm good in the day
Maureen I'm curious if anyone attended tight who could not attend the weekly day-time chats?
John Kennedy or more likely 95/5 rule ...
John Kennedy although in recruiting it usually comes down to 90/10 rule ...
John Kennedy the old 80/20 rule ...
Maureen I agree w/ that but that's true in all things.
John Kennedy There are some things worth spending your time and some that aren't ...
John Kennedy BUT, the overall conclusion is that I've drawn is that in recruiting in general ...
John Kennedy Yes, it takes me a while to make a point ...
John Kennedy I remember this one fellow who kept saying that certain people had a "real '' attitude" ...
John Kennedy and one thing you see with that is a tendency to try to label EVERYTHING ...
John Kennedy Well, you see, I have alot of Asperger's running through my family ...
Maureen But what was your point - I felt you were going somewhere w/ it..
John Kennedy I think someone said it was Monday and I didn't think even the latest place is Monday yet
Maureen I love the Sharibian comment - John - my econ professors at UC would be so proud of me...
John Kennedy after heads-down, no LinkedIn profile, no user group involvement, no articles individual contributors ...
Maureen John what was your point before about Sunday being the latest time on earth?
John Kennedy Frt-door, full-frontal gatekeeper assault ...
John Kennedy The remaining 70% is ... well ... Sharibian ...
John Kennedy about30 % "active" candidates - major job boards, answering ads, conventional stuff ...
John Kennedy ALL recruiting combined ...
Denyse Diem Can we just call you Lil Ray, John?
Maureen Me too Adam. I always enjoy having John in these chats- he has a way of smackin' us all upside the head occasionally...
John Kennedy the picture that's getting painted ...
John Kennedy BUT ... based... what ... two years of ERE traffic ...
John Kennedy Oh, always ... but sometimes I'm not sure what case I'm building
Maureen "little ray" I can see that...
Denyse Diem LOL
Maureen "...manipulating my victims"? LOL Are you building a case John?
Denyse Diem There is a Sourcing Conference in Miami - apologies - thought you would get the op to meet Maureen and understand her brain dump instead of tape dump....
Maureen You'll learn yours if you take this up.
John Kennedy In my immediate circle of friends I'm known as "The little ray of sunshine"
Maureen THEN the Executive Asst to the C level - then the Admin Asst to the dept. In that order. For me. Everyone has their favored paths.
Adam Peterson vampires, stress patterns, victims <- love the positive spin on all this
Maureen YES John.
Maureen But, if I understand you correctly, you'd still say the front-line gatekeeper is still the most productive source of information?
John Kennedy Miami?
John Kennedy Yes, if you have movies with "live" soundtracks that would probably give me enough to pick up the stress patterns where you are manipulating your victims
Maureen probably so John.
Denyse Diem John will you be in Miami this September?
Maureen That's right - I ‘member D. First module - there's a couple lessons on phone banks and how to title ID the names you get those banks!
John Kennedy Wait a sec ... the latest it is anywhere on Earth right now is about 6pm Sunday I think
Maureen John, you keep talkin' about "tape dumps". I don't HAVE tape dumps. Though you would enjoy seeing the real time sourcing movie we made last year - it was filmed over the course of two days and is actual phone sourcing - I show it at training seminars and the reactions are always good - "Riveting" it's been called!
Denyse Diem Monday - - The week/end is shot already. As I mentioned, much afoot this weekend.
John Kennedy Yeppers
Denyse Diem tape dump = pod cast correct JK?
Maureen D - Magic goes through all this - have you started yet?
Maureen Yes D it's a very good place to start for a new sourcer - practicing phone banks and using the names you get them when you phone source the next day.
John Kennedy But, again, to do a proper analysis, I'd need a tape dump
John Kennedy Correct ... there's such a thing as going too far to create a sense of urgency ...
Denyse Diem good point John - hadn't thought of that
Maureen I think that's ridiculous to act like that.
Maureen Interesting point John. But I never (as far as I can tell) create panic. At least I think I don’t. I know sourcers who will call and imperiously say stuff like "You must give me the name of...or else your boss is going to hear about your (intransigence) and believe me there will be hell to pay!”
Denyse Diem would that be a suggestion for a new sourcer? doing the phone banks I mean...
John Kennedy But, if I understand you correctly, you'd still say the front-line gatekeeper is still the most productive source of information?
John Kennedy and it may be possible that South Asian culture maybe has something along a "maintain an even strain" element to it that it is difficult for them to project that sense of urgency/panic.
Maureen AND they can reveal the most amazing information!
Maureen Phone banks can really teach you alot though about sourcing - they force you to THINK about ways in.
John Kennedy she does get the "building on fire" sense of urgency through her voice that I understand is absolutely necessary for any part of the recruiting business ...
Maureen When I first started sourcing I would spend hours and hours doing phone banks - usually I'd get up early (about 2 ) and work til they opened doing phone banks - I don’t do much of that anymore.
John Kennedy and although I haven't had a chance to review an actual tape dump, based on the transcripts I would have to say ...
Maureen Anyhoo- anyone have any good night time stories about sourcing?
John Kennedy It sounds like, of what I have read so far, Maureen is about as "mild" as you get in the sourcing business ...
Maureen John, It's hard to find articles on ERE I find - it seems sometimes search works better than others - you have most luck searching w/in a specific group - try Sourcing Techniques group first John - then ASK - use "culture" as keyword.
John Kennedy Well, if I have to hazard a guess ...
Maureen Try search Google, John - culture difficulty indian sourcing – use those words
John Kennedy I'm almost certain it was ERE. Maybe six months ago.
John Kennedy I wish I would have saved it.
John Kennedy but it was very specific language he used about not being able to navigate the culture for such an endeavor...
Maureen Me too D.
Denyse Diem JK - I would love to understand what they perceive as our 'intricacies of culture'
John Kennedy Possibly ... perhaps based on many experience with outsourced customer service ...
Maureen I ask that because I still see most sourcing requests (even from outside US) for sourcing out of US companies that are located within IN US.
Maureen Maybe so. Do you think there is resistance to SE Asian culture here?
John Kennedy but they said they couldn't do phone sourcing because they couldn't navigate the intricacies of the culture
Maureen Yes D
Maureen Same phenomenon in other parts of the world. Mostly. I've sourced Australia, China Japan India and Europe - same thing most places - the place I find difficult to source is Mexico - if you can believe it - it's hard to get people who speak English there on the phone!
John Kennedy they were saying they had subscriptions to something like two billion resume databases and several other tools ...
Denyse Diem let me rephrase Maureen - would you said you gain access to information far more readily b/c people really want to help someone from the US?
John Kennedy But, yes, I need to do a better job of holding to these articles ... but there was something about an Indian company that did virtual recruiting ...
John Kennedy So I can see something like that might go on when you call ...
John Kennedy And I remember hear them saying, as if it was Christmas morning or some such, "It's Louise in America!"
Maureen Interesting John. I'm interested to hear that.
John Kennedy She called the UK frequently because some of their governing structure is there ...
Maureen It' s not hard to source abroad - remember D sourcing is simple but it's NOT easy!
John Kennedy Oh, yes ... I remember that phenomenon from my grandmother who used to be very active in the structure of the United Methodist Church ...
Maureen That's why I wonder about what those southeast asian (Indian) companies mean...though maybe the Southeast Asian accent is more of a handicap here in the states? I dunno...
Denyse Diem so would you say it's easier to source abroad then?
Maureen When I call Canada it works almost EVETY SINGLE TIME.
Maureen NO KIDDING
Maureen Good question John. PRETTY MUCH the same techniques work ONLY in some countries, when I say, “This is Maureen Sharib calling from the U.S." I can hear them drop what they're doing and most of them drop what they're doing to HELP me in whatever way they can.
Denyse Diem Amie - do you recruit/source abroad?
John Kennedy Do you run into similar issues when calling outside the country or do the same techniques that work here work there?
Maureen When I hit the morning guard I use the evening guard's name..."Oh, has Joe left already? Maybe YOU can help me..." It helps me establish a slight familiarity immediately.
John Kennedy I remember seeing a posting from an Indian recruiting company that they really couldn't do names sourcing because they couldn't navigate the culture properly ...
RecruiterGuy Not much... but did just fill a comp & benefits title in the UK.
John Kennedy Actually, that would bring up an interesting question ...
Denyse Diem what about the rest of you - what % of your work is abroad in other time zones?
Maureen Growing but still a small %.
Denyse Diem -- both abroad and I hope I take it
Maureen Denyse Usually persons, D. A small part of my biz is overseas.
Maureen Usually around 6 or 7.
Maureen Early mornings are very good times to call too - when the guard shift changes.
Denyse Diem SO when you call abroad, are you all calling phone banks as well as live folks?
Maureen But I don’t see it that way John. I see it as common sense conversational techniques.
John Kennedy You have a grandfathered flat mthly long distance over POTS plan? No wonder you're in the business you're in ...
Maureen Unusual - LOL Maybe so.
John Kennedy Or perhaps the more Constitutionally phrased "unusual" would be a better description
Maureen I use a pay e price per month plan. TTI I think it is - they don’t offer it anymore but I hang on for dear life through a grandfather clause.
Maureen (Loaded question)
Maureen John, do you think we use unconventional methods to extract information?
John Kennedy Well what LD carrier do you have that you can afford to war dial Hong Kong??
John Kennedy Yes ... generally speaking hacking is attempting to extract information from a database through ... unconventional methods ... much as your phone sourcing is extracting similar information from humans
Maureen Phone hacking. Hmmm...
Maureen I don’t use Skype- I always use land lines.
John Kennedy re Hong Kong - you have a pretty healthy Skype account there, eh, Maureen?
RecruiterGuy Isn't that how some of us fell into recruiting?
John Kennedy Why of course ... seems this "sourcing" has much in common with, by some measurements, a much older and more intense practice called "hacking"
Maureen That is certainly one of the things we can do in the middle of the night with the phone - can anyone think of others?
maren oh yeah! I got that too!
Maureen Someone said before class started that one thing we can do in the middle of the night is call other countries -Europe is hrs or so ahead of us Hong Kong 13 hrs or so .
RecruiterGuy Found it... link (RG - this link needs correction - I lost it in transcription)
Maureen Yes, war dialing - John you come up w/ some interesting catch phrases! May I use them?
John Kennedy Oooooooh ... you mean war dialing the directory
Maureen I mean the names in the thing - all the names listed under ABC, all the names under DEF and so ...
John Kennedy Now by phone trees you mean the menu structure?
Maureen RG - in beta - a service that will do phone trees? What is it?
John Kennedy Service in beta?
Maureen Yes, you can John. During the DAY as well!
RecruiterGuy /me digs in bookmarks.
RecruiterGuy Hmmm.... seems I was looking at a service that is in beta now that will perform that automatically for ya' now.
John Kennedy You can find out a very great deal from the back door guard at night.
Maureen The answer is yes John.
Maureen would be quite fascinated to learn if a person can extract a useful number of names by hammering the automated directories
RecruiterGuy the phone tree was the first step, mind you... I didn't find THEM in it.
John Kennedy Actually I hadn't actually thought of it, but I did that by accident before I even got in the recruiting business.
Maureen Do you want to learn John about phone banking?
RecruiterGuy I hired two brokers in a month span that were a result of working my way through a phone tree.
Maureen We have 24 online now - welcome!
Maureen Would you have DARED to do that? Do you see it as daring? Calling a security guard in the middle of the night?
John Kennedy But I would be quite fascinated to learn if a person can extract a useful number of names by hammering the automated directories
Maureen Did you all read "Middle of the Night Sourcing" – the post in the Forum section? Would you have thought to do that? When I was new I wouldn’t have!
John Kennedy Well, with almost 100% contract employees I've never really had a need ...
Maureen Do you know how to do it?
Maureen What are you curious about John?
John Kennedy The other thing is that if your "victim" is a piece of machinery now THAT I might be able to do
RecruiterGuy Ahhhh voicemail.... that brings back memories of learning call trees after hours and taking shots at spelling with the number pad for names and titles in voicemail. lol
Maureen That's also true RG - I LOVE to source around holidays - we have a good one coming up – Labor Day!.
Maureen That's true John. I like the imagery!
RecruiterGuy It's always challenging to get past the gatekeeper.... but they were always a little more vulnerable right before a weekend or when trying to scoot out for a holiday weekend. Catching them in just the right moment is always helpful.
John Kennedy Is that there are some true vampires of sourcing ... that can bring a voice mail directory to its knees at 2 am.
Denyse Diem Hello, I'm just entering the field of Sourcing and looking to learn all I can from you experienced Sourcers
Maureen Why so John?
John Kennedy But what I'm curious about that I've heard Maureen mention once or twice ...
Maureen “…when someone would give me anything just to get off the phone” - Explain that, RG - what did you do that made yourself so uhhh..."vexing"?
John Kennedy Yes ... - is a remarkably productive half hour ...
RecruiterGuy Not this late at night. But early in the morning worked well as did right toward the end of the day when someone would give me anything just to get the phone.
Amie E Yes, Phone, Internet, I’m not committed to one, I use whatever it takes.
Maureen RG - did you ever do it AT NIGHT?
Maureen Amie, do you phone source?
RecruiterGuy Hello - I used to perform heavy phone sourcing when I was a headhunter ~ years ago. I recruited for brokerage managers.
John Kennedy Morbid curiosity
Amie E how about jill of all trades??
Maureen What brings you all here tight?
Maureen Any Internet sourcers? Introduce yourselves!
Maureen Welcome to the MagicMethod Midnight Moves Sourcing Chat! Do we have any phone sourcers among us?
Midnight – Chat officially starts
Adam Peterson you guys on the east coast are hard core - this is a perfect dinner break here in CA
Denyse Diem JK - refresh your screen or go up to your url bar and enter twice - that should help
Maureen You’ll get used to it fast John - I hope Animal shows up tight - I don’t think he's going to though. He's prob’ly FAST asleep. I don’t dare wake him.
John Kennedy Okay ... this scrolling up is going to drive me nuts.
Maureen If any of you want to tweet that class is about to start - that would be cool! Make sure you give them the site link!
Maureen Have you all read the post I put up this morning in the Forum? It’s called “Middle of the Night Sourcing.”. Read it before class starts – it’s along the lines of what we’re going to be talking about in here tight in the midnight chat.
Denyse Diem wow - very useful!
Amie E It takes the persons email addy, shows their LI profile, if you are connected with them, and your email history with that person.. it also shows how many new contacts you connected with.. neat management tool
Maureen Jason, these logs become tutorials as well!
Amie E My newest widget is xobni, it is an outlook tool I liking alot
Denyse Diem now I hear it
Denyse Diem test
RecruiterGuy Okay... so I sent out some tweets about stracka.com... and I posted on some forums I hang out ... and now I'm getting notices like CRAZY about people joining. At least in the last days. Hmmmm....
RecruiterGuy Yup. lol
Adam Peterson RG - gotta mic?
Adam Peterson ...and then enable the sound feature
Adam Peterson try clicking the "+" button on the bottom right
Adam Peterson is it only working for me??
Jason Davis I don’t hear it either
Denyse Diem no sound here either - do we need to do anything in particular to hear it?
Amie E I not hearing it
Adam Peterson It works for me
Maureen That's cool but I don’t hear it - do I need to do something here?
Maureen This would do away w/ that old familiar war cry "You changed my words you so-and-so!"
Jason Davis Maureen, I enabled sound when a new post goes up i think. let me know if it is good
Maureen Jason, I really like the cache feature of this chat service. Look down below at the number of cached pages already!
Adam Peterson (well, that was my point of view at the time)
Adam Peterson I'm sorry, I realized i was giving away contact info to a recruiter
Maureen Adam, when did you realize what happened?
Adam Peterson the guy in the cube next to me heard my side of the conversation and thought something was up - so i started asking questions
Maureen So Adam, you know these things happen? How do you know that was a recruiter?
Maureen Click here
for international time zones or to find out yours.
Adam Peterson the recruiter who called was a little sketchier - claimed they worked for my company, their network was down
Maureen What happened Adam?
Maureen We're going to be talking about the things you can do with a telephone in the middle of the night. Any of you have any ideas what some of those things might be?
Adam Peterson to be honest, it reminded me of my first job out of college (i-banking) where I was the one who got called at a slightly off hour
Maureen Amie, did you read "Middle of the Night Sourcing"?
Maureen What did you like about it Adam?
Adam Peterson great story posted in the forum btw
Adam Peterson Maureen, I'm planning listening in
Maureen Who is here for Midnight Moves?
Warm –Up – this conversation started a half hour or so before class started.