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- Blog Post: Agile Recruiting: Top Tips and Best Practices For Recruiters in 2021
The Covid-19 Pandemic has disrupted the way we work and may continue to do so in the next several months. We’ve talked about the bad and the ugly: Possible upcoming recession, increasing business…
- Added by Ngan Pham at 11:29am on November 27, 2021
- Blog Post: First 90 Days in Recruitment Operations, an Interview with Peter Stein
In the recruitment world, most people are aware of the 'headhunters' – those who actively seek out and approach potential candidates with job opportunities. However, there is a whole other side to…
- Added by Phil Strazzulla at 7:36am on October 20, 2022
- Blog Post: Top 10 HR Models Every Human Resources Professional Should Know
Think about two companies that differ vastly in terms of their work culture. Perhaps, you have an affinity towards one of them and want to emulate their ways of working. What makes this favored…
- Added by Phil Strazzulla at 2:43am on October 31, 2022
- Blog Post: COVID-19 Vaccine Mandates: Updates from an Expert
As the world is starting to get a grip on COVID-19, companies are already making efforts towards a form of normalcy. However, moving forward in today’s global climate means having to consider…
- Added by Phil Strazzulla at 9:13am on October 29, 2022
- Blog Post: JOB CHANGE OR CAREER CHANGE?
There’s a…
- Added by Mandy Fard - CPRW, CMRW at 2:41pm on May 19, 2022
- Blog Post: THE BEST EMPLOYERS AND JOBS FOR WORKERS OVER 50
- Added by Vera Gavizon at 1:09pm on December 18, 2013
- Comment on: Blog Post 'Does a Diversity Focus Perpetuate Racism?'
- maybe disagree with a few others. I sometimes think that diversity is maybe the most misunderstood issue in the world of business today. That is unfortunate because, while it has always been important in a number of ways, it is now becoming a really, really, really critical business issue... +The nature of competitive advantage is changing, which is making diversity and inclusion more important. +We are on the front end of an unprecedented generational transition...bringing generational differences to the forefront and also bringing us what looks to be a significant amount of leadership and workforce volatility. +By the end of this calendar year the Bureau for Labor Statistics is predicting that 70% of new entrants into the workforce will be women and People of Color...meaning if you are not good at attracting, engaging and retaining women and People of Color you are going to be competing for a shrinking portion of the available talent. +Employee retention and engagement in most organizations translate into large dollar numbers, and as the economy tightens up are going to become increasingly important. Many organizations have a great deal of room for improvement in the retention and engagement of women, People of Color, Gen Y, Gen X and other employee groups Just a few points that I would share...a few things from my perspective: 1.) Diversity (if we are using dictionaries) means difference . It does not mean race, or gender, or quotas or affirmative action. Those things are all a part of the larger conversation, but diversity is much bigger than any of those specific things. It means difference, and difference comes in a lot of forms. 2.) Diversity is a relational attribute...it exists within the context of relationships. If we are being precise with our language there is no such thing as a "diverse person" ...we have all probably heard the word used that way and we generally know what is being communicated, but that is not accurate use of the word. If someone is "different", they have to be different from something or someone...a relationship is inherent. Diversity exists between people. It is an emergent property of groups and relationships and it exists in every relationship between human beings. You can pick any two people from anywhere on this planet, put them in a room together and there is diversity there. There may or may not be racial diversity, gender diversity or age diversity in that relationship but there is still more diversity present than those two people will ever be able to explore in there life times. So...true diversity and inclusion work is not a "set of tools" or an "attitude" to be pulled out just when you are interacting with a co-worker or a client that is of a different race or from a different country...it is work that applies to every relationship that you have with another human being, because every relationship that you have with another human begin involves diversity. The other characteristic that is present in every relationship that you have with another human being is commonality. Because of the paradoxical and contextual nature of our social and cognitive identities there are differences and commonalities between us and every other person on this planet. And if our relationships / interactions / transactions /conversations with other human beings (co-workers, clients, spouses) are going to be healthy, valuable, effective, authentic and sustainable...then we must be about exploring both the difference and the commonality within, because both represent great value for us. Real diversity and inclusion work is not about any kind of "preference", it is about who we are in relationship with and the nature of those relationships. We want those relationships / interactions / conversations to be as authentic and real as possible so that we can make the best decisions (hiring, firing, promoting, dating, electing, etc.). Contrary to what we might like to believe, those decisions are often times heavily influenced by stereotypes, assumptions, labels, judgements, etc., regardless of what our intentions are or how good of a person we consider ourselves to be. 3.) We have to get clear on the value of diversity. This might not be a terribly popular thing for me to say, but I believe that a lot of us in my line of work (I am basically a "diversity consultant") have not done a particularly good job when it comes to this. In my humble opinion I believe that we have also done a poor job of really defining and breaking down diversity...this is a big part of why there is so much confusion still around these issues. I continue to see people saying and writing things like "there is no business case for diversity", "diversity is more trouble than it is worth", etc. Do not be deceived...the business case for diversity (there are actually a number of specific business cases, depending on what you are actually doing (targeted recruiting, training, etc.)) is strong. Cognitive diversity (very different from identity diversity, but informed by it) is a critical ingredient for creativity and innovation. We live in a time when innovation is rapidly becoming the new competitive advantage, and that alone makes diversity and inclusion pretty dang valuable. Cognitive diversity also drives better problem solving and decision making on a group level. When it comes to groups of people solving complex problems, diversity actually trumps talent. Identity diversity (things like race, gender, age, orientation, etc.) has also been proven to improve group decision making...I just finished reviewing an excellent study that looked at how juries deliberated, processed information and made decisions and how that was influenced by whether there was racial diversity present or not, and it has a profound and positive impact. As I look around the world of business (and healthcare, education, government, law enforcement, etc.) I would say that we could certainly benefit from some better problem solving and decision making...and diversity can help us get there. There is a lot of very good, very strong research out there that shows the raw power and value of diversity, unfortunately a lot of it is hidden away in academic, science and research oriented journals. A lot of my work is geared towards sharing this information and research with folks in the corporate world. A couple of good books for examining some of the research around this are The Difference, by Scot Page and The Medici Effect, by Frans Johansson. 4.) We have to get clear on human nature. We are not quite the beings we think we are. One of the reasons that we need to have a "focus" on diversity is that we are wired socially to avoid difference. Regardless of our intentions (this is not about being good people or being bad people, this is about how human beings function socially) we are all biased. We all operate on assumptions that we make about people and groups of people and we all have many cognitive biases that skew how we interpret the behavior of other people, the value we assign to their behavior, what we remember about people and what we think we remember about people. That is why today in 2008 the research shows that if I put two copies of the exact same resume online, one with a stereotypical white name and one with a stereotypical black name, the one with the white name would be downloaded many, many, many more times. It is not because there are a gazillion evil, racists, hateful recruiters out there, rather it is because of how we are wired as human beings. So we need to own that, deal with it and make at least a little bit of effort to counteract it. And again, this is what a lot of my work focuses on...this is why I call my work "Illuminating Blind Spots", because we have a lot of blind spots...a lot of ways in which we do not make decisions and process information quite the way we think we do. 5.) We have to be honest with ourselves about what we truly believe. I appreciate the fact that folks are concerned about "reverse-discrimination." Discrimination is discrimination in my book and it is a bad business practice, it is bad citizenship, it is bad morally, theologically and in just about every other way I can think of. And if we are truly and seriously against discrimination then our outrage should first and foremost be directed towards the systems, institutions and processes that we are a part of. If we truly believe that talent and ability are not determined by race, ethnicity, gender, orientation, etc. then we should be outraged by the fact that there has never been anyone other than a white male in the White House. Nothing against white men, I happen to be one myself. But if talent is not determined by gender and / or race, a "fair" system would never produce a result like that. If we are wanting to take a stand against discrimination, we should be outraged that there is almost ZERO racial, ethnic, gender orientation at C-level positions in the Fortune 500, that there is almost ZERO racial, ethnic, gender diversity on the Boards of Directors of those Fortune 500 Companies. If we believe that talent and ability are not determined by race, gender, etc. than that outcome can only exist as a result of a clearly biased system. And that outcome is not just something that exists at that level. I live in Omaha, Nebraska. And this is a good community with all of the right intentions. And here in Omaha Nebraska the Board of Directors for our Chamber of Commerce has almost ZERO racial, ethnic, gender diversity. We are either outraged by that or...or...or we really believe something different from what we are saying in public. We are either outraged by the clearly biased system right in front of us, or we believe we believe that white men are more talented and able leaders. Truth be told, there are very few real organizational diversity initiatives in this country. I am someone who studies, designs, supports and works with organizational diversity efforts at large and small organizations, and for the most part they are understaffed, underfunded, and undersupported at best. To be successful they need to work with numerous functions across the organization, yet they are staffed in HR which does not have the political or other capital to really back them. ...and at worst they are set up to fail. The vast majority of them (even many of the initiatives at the organizations that win the diversity awards) are focused more on perception than they are on reality. There are very few that are actually changing organizational culture and individual behavior...not for lack of effort or for lack of the right intentions, but largely due to he still prevalent misunderstanding and confusion around what diversity really is and what it really means, and also due to some of the baggage and damage from past diversity work. There may be the perception that some of their efforts are about discrimination or preference...but many of the employees of an organizations often do not know the truth about their own diversity initiatives. Employee Resource Groups can be a powerful and dynamic tool for recruiting, retention, leadership development, R&D and a number of other things, and today it is rare to find an organizationally sponsored ERG that is not open to any employee that is interested in participating. But a lot of people still have this idea that ERGs are exclusive. Just like the vast majority of people (regardless of whether they oppose it or support it) do not actually understand what Affirmative Action is...what it does...and what its impact has been. I have certainly not worked with a diversity initiative that is having the impact of reverse - discrimination, if they are out there, they appear to be horribly ineffective at this reverse discrimination. And if they are having that effect, they are based on flawed principles. Based on what I have observed in the last ten years from the world of business with the Enrons, Worldcoms, AIGs, etc., ad nauseum, I would venture to guess that there are some diversity initiatives out there that are operating on flawed principles, but I think we have far bigger fish to fry...and they are swimming all around us. Grab one. Respectfully Submitted (that means please do not invite me to leave after my first post) Joe Gerstandt Illuminating Blind Spots diversity | inclusion | authenticity | innovation | transformation OurTimeToAct.com TalentAnarchy.com…
- Added by Joe Gerstandt at 12:30am on November 1, 2008
- Blog Post: How to get Buy-In for Your Next HRTech Purchase: the HRTech Roadshow
Today we’re going to go through a bulletproof playbook that will result in the necessary internal buy-in needed to successfully buy new HR technology.
Make no mistake…
- Added by Phil Strazzulla at 11:45am on March 19, 2020
- Topic: Transcript - Talent Talk Cafe: Week of Nov 10th - William Uranga: Can HR Embrace Social Media
- ollow and would appreciate any feedback to know if its something that we should continue to do. So, sit back, grab a coffee and enjoy the conversation! Don't forget to join us and participate in the live Chat each week on Tuesday's and Thursday's at 3pm ET / 12pm PT. Susan Burns So, William - take it away and lets hear whats on your mind with HR and Social Media 3:03pm William Well good afternoon to all you non-West Coast recruiting people 3:03pm Maren Hogan That's an illustrator graphic from a mac, I will shut up now 3:03pm Ben Yoskovitz Hi Susan ... and everyone else. 3:03pm William I had recently done a preso 3:03pm William on Social Media (sm) and HR 3:04pm William amazingly only 25% had read a blog 3:04pm William and only one other person in the audience of 70 wrote a blog 3:04pm William pretty stunning... 3:04pm Business Support by Mittie wow... 3:04pm William It's really encouraging to know that you folks are already distinguishing yourself from the rest 3:04pm Maren Hogan Dan Schwabel posted a stat that um, I think 70 or 80% of marketers (not HR I know) were using social media 3:05pm Susan Burns Wow - the # who had at least read a blog is lower than I would have anticipated 3:05pm Susan Burns William - what was the average age - approx, of the group? 3:05pm Business Support by Mittie that is a very good question 3:05pm William Great q: don't know would guess that they were mostly boomers 3:05pm Susan Burns HI Ben! 3:06pm Lance Haun that's not surprising 3:06pm William So I'd thought we could start off w/ collaborating on just what is Social Media - and come up with a definition. Any takers? 3:06pm William(hi, Lance) 3:06pm Maren Hogan Oh fudge, I hate definitiongs 3:06pm Maren Hogan no g 3:07pm William Let's making a working one... no wikipedia etc. 3:07pm Business Support by Mittie creating video advertisemnts for example, marketing that appeals to a younger demographic I think 3:07pm William How would you explain it to that HR audience I just had... 3:07pm Susan Burns virtual collaboration, sharing and content creation 3:07pm Lance Haun hmm, user driven 3:07pm Steve Levy SM - recruiting the way it used to be done before technology...meeting and greeting and developnig relationships 3:07pm Susan Burns Hi Steve! 3:07pm William Mittie... those are great examples of Sm. 3:07pm Rob Humphrey sure.. social media is content distributed by technology...the web..mobile phone...etc 3:07pm Business Support by Mittie thank you 3:07pm WilliamN ice Steve! 3:07pm Steve Levy calls, birthday cards, coffee chats 3:07pm Susan Burns Hey Rob! 3:07pm Ben Gotkin interactive, multimedia, transparent 3:07pm William(hi, Rob) 3:07pm Maren Hogan it's definitely two sided 3:07pm Maren Hogan or should be 3:08pm Rob Humphrey Hey Susan..everyone 3:08pm Business Support by Mittie Myspace is also an example 3:08pm William Great point Ben. It certainly isn't passive 3:08pm Susan Burns Maren - can you try and do a copy and paste again today - this willb e great to capture and I still cant get it with Firefox 3:08pm Rob Humphrey Social Media is not to be confused with social media marketing... 3:08pm William Yes, even marketing is abusing SM, eh, Rob? 3:08pm Business Support by Mittie I think I confuse the two at times myself 3:08pm Rob Humphrey umm they are trying to 3:09pm Maren Hogan shoot I will try Susan 3:09pm William So we have interactive, authentic/transparent 3:09pm Steve Levy SM marketing is about monetization 3:09pm Ben Gotkin creating community 3:09pm Recruiting Animal Don't worry I won't say anything. I just came to harrass William U with my presence 3:09pm Steve Levy as we use it, it is about creating relationships 3:09pm Rob Humphrey SM Marketing is not just about $ 3:09pm Susan Burns Hey RA - welcome back - its great to have you on TTC! 3:09pm William c'mon, Ani contribute... I can barely hear you... 3:09pm Steve Levy when Keleman says don't worry... 3:10pm Recruiting Animal I'm playing your music 3:10pm Lance Haun heh 3:10pm Ben Yoskovitz Social media is also "freer" - in the sense that more people are now capable of distributing their content / message. 3:10pm Jennifer McClure William - you shared a good definition of social media on twitter earlier. Are you gonna repeat that? 3:10pm Steve Levy Rob - abs but to far more it is 3:10pm Rob Humphrey The weapon of social media (so to speak) is being turned around and pointed at employers... 3:10pm Ben Yoskovitz It costs less to create and distribute. 3:10pm Recruiting Animal I know, Vin. It doesn't mean anything 3:10pm Rob Humphrey so much for "controlling your brand.." 3:10pm William So Ben's "community" vs Steve's "monetization" are those opposite or can those attrib work together in SM? 3:10pm Steve Levy they have to work together 3:10pm Business Support by Mittie they work together 3:10pm Rob Humphrey they work together sometimes 3:11pm Susan Burns Community and monetization can work together if there is a bi-directional value exchange 3:11pm Rob Humphrey depends what your goals are 3:11pm Lance Haun I think they can but it is trickier 3:11pm Lance Haun is that a word? 3:11pm Ben Gotkin they can, not necessarily important for recruiting though 3:11pm Rob Humphrey Ben--why not? 3:11pm Susan Burns Ben - maybe monetization in recruiting is a hire?? 3:11pm William So in recruiting, I usually hear of people "using" SM. Is that a fair generalization. If so does it run counter to true SM? 3:12pm Ben Gotkin Susan - possibly 3:12pm Ben Gotkin I'm wearing the corporate hat though 3:12pm Rob Humphrey no i dont think so... 3:12pm Steve Levy monet. in recruiting depends upon who is doing the recruiting 3:12pm Jennifer McClure I don't think so. No more than using a phone to communicate with someone. 3:12pm William Rob can you elab? 3:12pm Rob Humphrey well--it is a phrase that we latch onto 3:12pm Rob Humphrey and we think about FB LI etc 3:12pm Lance Haun is their an intrinsic value of SM to not use it to monetize or gain something? 3:12pm Lance Haun or is it a tool like anything else? 3:13pm Rob Humphrey when we should be thinking about how to really harness SM 3:13pm Lance Haun it is the latter to me 3:13pm Susan Burns An important distinction is wether or not your looking at it as transactional or as community - wich is nurturing relationships and creating value over time 3:13pm Kari Quaas It's a tool for me to connect with all of you fine people. Without it, I / we wouldn't be here. 3:13pm Rob Humphrey I had a video game client recently--the whole recruitment plan revolved aroun a SMM plan 3:13pm Susan Burns Hey Kari - welcome! 3:13pm William Good pt Susan. Intent becomes apparent pretty quickly 3:13pm Rob Humphrey versus tactics-- 3:13pm Steve Levy if ur creating value over time ur also creating val minute by ymin 3:13pm William(hi Kari) 3:13pm Kari Quaas hi all 3:14pm Ben Gotkin Susan - Or creating a conversation, building a brand, pushing out content 3:14pm Steve Levy meaning all steps are critical 3:14pm William Steve good point, but are recruiters patient to that end? 3:14pm Rob Humphrey A linkedin group is a tactic... not a strategy..for example 3:14pm Steve Levy most... NO 3:14pm Ben Gotkin LinkedIn Groups can be used strategically now... 3:14pm Susan Burns Rob - LI is part of a strategy and the site itself and actions on the site are tactics that support the strategy 3:14pm Jennifer McClure The recruiters who "use" social media just for recruiting typically aren't able to generate the relationships/following they need to get to the people they are trying to recruit 3:15pm WilliamSo let's run with Ben's spec ex. How have you used LI Groups? 3:15pm Ben GotkinLove it 3:15pm Rob Humphrey yes 3:15pm Susan Burns Hey Jennifer! Thanks for joining us! 3:15pm William Any one have examples? 3:15pm Jason Stark because they dont take the time to develop the relationship. they use it as if it is another job board and try and recruit candidates or sell to clients without taking the time to build the relationship which in the long run is much more important!! 3:15pm Steve Levy BG -which groups have been most fruitful for your searches 3:16pm Jennifer McClure I have a LinkedIn group with over 5k members in it. I've "used" it for personal branding, a bridge to establishing relationships, and a quick way to reach people I need to reach 3:16pm Ben Gotkin Any of the Big 4 3:16pm Ben Gotkin We have an alumni group for our firm that I administer too, good stuff there 3:16pm Steve Levy their affinity groups? 3:16pm Steve Levy sorry - already answered 3:16pm Ben Gotk incorporate or alumni groups, thousands and thousands of members 3:16pm William So would you guys say that LI Groups are more network (exchange of help) or communities? 3:16pm Susan Burns Ben - how do you interact with the group? What does content shared look like? 3:17pm Rob Humphrey network 3:17pm Lance Haun I would say network 3:17pm Rob Humphrey trying to be a community 3:17pm Jennifer McClure LI groups done well are definitely communities 3:17pm Carmen Hudson How do candidates want to interact with SM (from a recruiting standpoint?) 3:17pm Steve Levy becoming networks 3:17pm Susan Burns network - LI is missing too much functionality for it to be community! 3:17pm Ben Gotkin network, but you can also post content and start discussions there 3:17pm Susan Burns Hey Carmen - welcome to TTC! 3:17pm Rob Humphrey the community aspect is limited 3:17pm Carmen Hudson do they want to develop relationships, or are they looking for transaction-based communication? 3:17pm Rob Humphrey the dialogue component is in its infancy 3:17pm Steve Levy if they're candidates, they want access to peeps who will hire them 3:17pm Ben Gotkin Rob - true, but it's a start 3:17pm William Jennifer (hi) how are you using your LI group as a community versus a network? 3:18pm Rob Humphrey if you ask 1000 linkedin users they would say network 3:18pm Carmen Hudson Hey there Susan, William and everyone! Shout outs! 3:18pm Steve Levy Carmen - neither - I think they want shortcuts 3:18pm William(hey Carmen) 3:18pm Jennifer McClure Our LI group established a Yahoo group before LI added discussions to communicate, and we also have LIVE networking events. 3:18pm Lance Haun I agree with Steve, they want to touch base largely 3:18pm Lance Haun Do people connect to your group when they aren't looking for a job? 3:19pm Lance Haun I think thats the ultimate test 3:19pm William Ok, great example so there is more than a single online presence of your community 3:19pm Susan Burns LI is not dynamic - compare it to Twitter, Ning sites or FB and it is quite flat and transactional 3:19pm Carmen Hudson But I think LI is moving toward being dynamic, given the new app features 3:19pm Ben Gotkin LI is business focused though with 30M members. No other SM site competes with that 3:19pm Susan Burns ANd to Lance's point - would they tell a friend about your community because they think its a cool place to hang out and get/share info 3:20pm Jennifer McClure To build true relationships - you typically need to take it to an in-person interaction at some point. Otherwise, it's just an affinity 3:20pm Steve Levy Carmen - until they layoff more people 3:20pm Carmen Hudson tell ME about it! 3:20pm Business Support by Mittie I have a question excuse me if it isn't appropriate for this discussion 3:20pm Susan Burns Agree Carmen - but they have been really slow and the group manager tools are not there yet, let alone the community interface - would love to see them get it together 3:20pm Steve Levy susan - cost/benefit to add those features 3:21pm Carmen Hudson If they don't they will lose their core users -- only recruiters will be left, linking to other recruiters 3:21pm Susan Burns Jennifer - when u say in-person do you mean face time? 3:21pm Steve Levyless chance now that they having financial issues 3:21pm Rob Humphrey face to face is great 3:21pm Lance Haun yeah, exactly carmen 3:21pm Rob Humphrey but not common among recruiters...anymore :-( 3:21pm Jennifer McClure Face time or at least a phone conversation. I've developed some great friendships through social media with people I've not yet met, but when I do get a chance to meet them, the relationships become that much richer 3:21pm Rob Humphrey why not transcend LI Groups? 3:22pm Ben Gotkin recruiters are still a minority of users in LI. It continues to grow across all demographics 3:22pm Rob Humphrey use it as a feed to your community? 3:22pm Susan Burns Steve - could be a lot of benefit but I think they are running out of time and it will cost them more in the longrun to catch up 3:22pm Lance Haun Jennifer alludes to SM relationships not being as deep as ones developed over the phone or in person. That's part of the problem with relying on that strategy. 3:22pm Ben Gotkin Good article on LI demographics on AdAge.com this week: 3:22pm Ben Gotkin http://adage.com/digital/article?article_id=132300 3:22pm William What about other SM outposts... what else is everyone using? 3:22pm Ben Yoskovitz @Ben Gotkin: But LI makes a fair share of their $$ from recruiters, I'd say. 3:23pm Ben Gotkin Ben Y - I'm sure 3:23pm Jennifer McClure Blog, Twitter, Ning groups 3:23pm William... and how does this help you (as a recruiter) or even HR in general? 3:23pm Rob Humphrey William--there are many... 3:23pm Rob Humphrey Dont know where to start 3:23pm Kari QuaasE mployers who use Cool Works are using Facebook more to connect with their former and potentially future employees. 3:23pm Ben Gotkin Blog 3:23pm Steve Levy there are other forms of SM that peeps don't consider SM - less Web 2.0 than Associations 101 3:23pm Jennifer McClure The various SM options are tools to connect with people to begin developing relationships where it makes sense 3:24pm Kari Quaas And I should add that it's a small % 3:24pm Ben Gotkin Jennifer - Agree. Also to use to market your organization and build your brand 3:24pm Rob Humphrey I tend to mash up twitter, FB, Ning to make it easy for a community to grow --regardless of platform 3:25pm Susan Burns IF SM is done well - current, relevant content created in an authentic voice - it adds a personality dimension to the comp brand that cannot be created through other mediums - then the viral aspects take over and it riding the wave 3:25pm Jennifer McClure@Ben absolutely. Create a presence where people WANT to connect with you. Build authority & influence 3:25pm Ben Gotkin Amen 3:25pm William Rob are you trying to reach potential candidates or referral contacts? Or who else? 3:25pm Maren Hogan But people are really wanting you to give back as well. 3:25pm Rob Humphrey candidates.. 3:25pm Rob Humphrey very specific folks 3:25pm Maren Hogan You can't use SM to take take take and never participate or reach out to candidates 3:26pm Rob Humphrey for example MTV Games--Harmonix--game developers--super hard to find ppl 3:26pm William Beyond reaching contacts (to become candidates) or active candidates, what else are you using SM for? 3:26pm Jennifer McClure For example - if I were using social media correctly, I could get @Susan Burns to follow me on Twitter :) 3:26pm Rob Humphrey We used Standout Jobs to assemble all SM in one place 3:26pm Susan Burns RE SM - look at the power of the Groundswell with this election. Regardless of your political view - people connected, shared, influenced, engaged and got involed online and offline like never before to express themselves and participate 3:26pm Ben Yoskovitz@William I think you should use SM to develop your own brand / space within whatever industry you're in. 3:26pm Susan Burns uh oh! Jennifer - consider it done! What is your Twitter profile name? 3:26pm William great point, Susan. SM was used to not just recruiter, but organize people 3:26pm Maren Hogan StandoutJobs is a phenomenal tool 3:27pm Rob Humphreyhttp://harmonixmusic.standoutjobs.com/ 3:27pm Rob Humphrey It is Ben --u owe me for the plug!! 3:27pm Kari Quaas Great example, Susan! 3:27pm Ben Yoskovitz Blogging is still the #1 mechanism to carve out your own piece of the SM pie. 3:27pm Business Support by Mittie Being that there are so many people out of work, has recruiting been easier or more difficult? 3:27pm Rob Humphrey Harder IMO 3:27pm Jennifer McClure @CincyRecruiter 3:27pm Lance Haun I think it is more difficult 3:27pm Ben Yoskovitz Thanks guys (re: Standout Jobs) :) 3:27pm William Has anyone seen HR (versus just recruiter) us SM effectively? 3:27pm Rob Humphrey Easy to find people....hard to recruit! 3:28pm Ben Yoskovitz I think the downfall of SM for many is that they don't use it strategically. I think I argued that in the last chat too :) 3:28pm Lonnie McRorey I agree Rob 3:28pm Business Support by Mittie Really? Wow.... 3:28pm Lonnie McRorey MAny don't want to relo 3:28pm Lance Haun I haven't seen HR use SM effectively 3:28pm Susan Burns Hey - that's right Jennifer but I thought I was following @cincyrecruiter - checking again now! 3:28pm Lance Haun I'd love an example of a department just using it semi-effectively 3:28pm William Lance, I'd cite Dow Chemical... 3:28pm Jennifer McClure There are some good examples of HR using social media well - @Kris_Dunn and @YourHRGuy are doing well with establishing their brand 3:28pm Susan Burns William - use of SM by HR for internal or external? 3:28pm Rob Humphrey i have 2 examples 3:28pm Maren Hogan I always hear ppl talk about Ernst and Young 3:29pm Rob Humphrey smaller firms though 3:29pm Rob Humphrey I am sooo bored of hearing about E and Y - no offense 3:29pm Rob Humphrey and Google 3:29pm Ben Yoskovitz @Lance: Our best example is http://telecomjobsireland.ie - which is Ericsson. 3:29pm Maren Hogan And I think Chris Hoyt does a ton of stuff for ATT 3:29pm Maren Hogan but he is more recruiting focused, not sure if that counts? 3:29pm Ben Yoskovitz So that's at the divisional level, to answer your question. 3:29pm Jennifer McClure @Maren - but Chris is a recruiter - not HR. Right? 3:30pm William Right, we hear about Comcastcares or Zappos' CEO using Sm to reach their customers. I'm asking about HR using SM to connect with their own ppl 3:30pm Susan Burns So William - internal examples? 3:30pm Jennifer McClure I think HR's opportunity for using social media is in creating a personal brand, communicating their employment brand, and establishing community - which leads to recruits 3:30pm Ben Yoskovitz Ah...that's a good question. Something I'm very interested in learning more about. 3:30pm Rob Humphrey Viximo uses twitter for everything 3:30pm Maren Hogan Oooh, that girl that I interviewed at ERE. Her CEO made all the emplyees use twitter. 3:30pm Rob Humphrey internal 3:30pm William Yes. For example: Dow Chem was facing a huge braindrain 3:30pm Carmen Hudson dennis smith of wireless jobs does a good job 3:30pm Maren Hogan And they won a best small biz award too 3:30pm William 40% of their ee pop was 50+ yo and 3:30pm Susan Burns Rob - do they use it internally as well - examples? 3:31pm Rob Humphrey code updates etc http://twitter.com/viximoelves 3:31pm Rob Humphrey yes 3:31pm Ben Gotkin When I was at MITRE, it worked very well, but was only partially HR driven 3:31pm William had 10 or more years experience. 3:31pm Ben Yoskovitz I'm curious about companies building their brands internally - to promote back to employees. 3:31pm William So they had a prob. They collab'd and used a 3rd pty to create their own network: MyDow 3:32pm Lance Haun I don't think the most effective internal facing campaigns are 100% HR driven 3:32pm William The purpose was to connect employees + retirees + alum 3:32pm Rob Humphrey I diagree w Lance 3:32pm Rob Humphrey depends on who in HR is driving the bus 3:32pm Jennifer McClure @Lance - What's your opinion on how HR can best utilize SM? 3:32pm Ben GotkinSelect Minds is a big vendor in the corporate social networking space 3:33pm Ben Gotkin They work with Big 4, Consulting Firms, Law Firms 3:33pm William IBM has a software prod for SM: Lotus Connections 3:33pm Lance Haun If someone in HR is effective, they are going to get thought leaders in the co. to help create and drive forward initiatives internally 3:33pm Rob Humphrey thought leaders? 3:34pm Rob Humphrey what doe sthat mean? 3:34pm Carmen Hudson HR is viewed as the gatekeeper - employees (even recruiters) are afraid to use 3:34pm Rob Humphrey like if you are not a thought leader..you are a thought follower? 3:34pm Lance Haun people that are leaders regardless of titles 3:34pm Susan Burns Lance - do you believe that it would benefit HR to also assume the role of a thought leader, innovator, connector and visionary? 3:34pm Lance Haun no Rob 3:34pm William Lance... and able to sponsor, give weight to an initiative? 3:34pm Lance Haun that's my feeling...there has to be authenticity 3:35pm Jennifer McClure @Carmen - depends on the HR person. Let's not peg them all just like we don't all want to be tagged with negative perceptions of recruters - cause we're cool 3:35pm Susan Burns HR could build their own personal equity by being more transparent and seen more as the connector / enabler or people and business 3:35pm Lance Haun Susan, I believe visionaries inspire others to create and prosper 3:35pm Rob Humphrey Lance-I sense you picked up on my sarcasm... 3:35pm Business Support by Mittie that is so tru 3:35pm Lance Haun so yes, I think HR does that currently 3:36pm Lance Haun how well is debateable 3:36pm Lance Haun but I don't think they ever do it by themselves 3:36pm Jennifer McClure Anyone here other than @Lance representing HR pro's? 3:36pm William{crickets} 3:36pm Rob Humphrey sorta 3:36pm Kari Quaas I used to be an HR person and I wish I knew then, what I know now about SM. 3:37pm Rob Humphrey i would never take an HR role though...too stifling 3:37pm Susan Burns Agree that its not an either or but an AND,,,,,And I think HR could advance their image, credibility and strategic contribution to the org by transparently embracing SM 3:37pm Jennifer McClure @Kari - how would you have used SM as an HR professional? 3:37pm Kari Quaas My manager was one of the "afraids." 3:37pm Rob Humphrey I used to run global staffing for a few firms..i am reformed now 3:37pm William So how can we help our HR brothers and sisters catch the vision of SM? Any examples? 3:37pm Lance Haun I think the problem with HR is they rarely come off as authentic so it makes it difficult to participate well in SM 3:38pm William ouch, Lance. 3:38pm Lance Haun I'm not casting blame 3:38pm Kari Quaas Seeing how my former employer has connected with hires prior to them starting work was great. 3:38pm Jennifer McClure @Lance ow ow ow 3:38pm Kari Quaas Building a community before they got on site. 3:38pm Lance Haun that's perception, fair or not 3:38pm Rob Humphrey Its not a matter of whether HR WILL particiapte or not! 3:38pm Ben Yoskovitz I think that perception exists, in part, because when HR rejects people they rarely give the complete reason. 3:38pm Rob Humphrey they already are 3:38pm Maren Hogan I have to agree with Lance, they have so many people to please-- it's hard to build relationship 3:38pm Ben Yoskovitz I know I struggle when rejecting people that I'm looking to hire with how to phrase the reason, explain it, etc. 3:39pm Kari Quaas I also would have broadened our recruiting scope using SM. 3:39pm Lance Haun That's part of it Ben 3:39pm William True, but in the same way - Don't wait for Legal to define your corp SM policy. 3:39pm Lance HaunDon't let legal define any policy 3:39pm Ben GotkinTrue, we defined it at our firm for Legal and Marketing 3:39pm Lance Haunthat's my policy :) 3:39pm Susan Burns question - how manu of you trust the hr generalists that you've worked with? DO u believe things always stay confidential and that you received an authentic answer when needed? 3:39pm William Nice, Lance. Ben... how did that go? 3:40pm Ben Gotkin I had a senior director in Marketing in full support of our initiatives 3:40pm Jennifer McClure I spent most of my career in HR (shout out to the HR peeps) and I regularly tell peopel I would be a MUCH better HR person now with what I've learned through being active in SM. I think HR can LEARN here. Not just use. 3:40pm Ben Gotkin he 'gets' SM 3:40pm Maren Hogan Yeah marketing! 3:40pm Ben Gotkin Legal had no concerns with the policy we wrote 3:40pm William So a collaboration... nice... did they also help with other things beyond the policy to foster SM at your org? 3:40pm Kari Quaas Ditto what Jennifer said. 3:41pm Ben Gotkin We've carried most of the load, marketing has helped with some of the branding elements of our blog, alumni site, etc. 3:41pm Carmen Hudson @Jennifer - very true. However, I recently surveyed a group of local recruiters about their SM use. Many are afraid because of "HR or legal implications". The *perception* is that HR doesn't like SM. 3:41pm Susan Burns Ben - can u share the policy? 3:41pm Jim - medXcentral Sorry I'm late.. long call. What did I miss? 3:41pm Jennifer McClure @Susan - HR people are people. So you get with the HR folks what you get with the broader population. Some are trustworthy & authentic. Some are not. It's not about the profession 3:41pm William (hi Jim) 3:42pm Jim - medXcentral kidding.. looks like it's been busy. (hi william) 3:42pm Ben Gotkin Possibly, I actually pulled most of it from searches I found on the web 3:42pm Lance HaunCarmen, I think that's a fair assessment 3:42pm Ben GotkinGoogle 'blog policy' and you will find existing policies from organizations including IBM 3:42pm William @Carmen 2nd'd 3:42pm Kari Quaas I would have to agree that HR doesn't like SM most of the time. I hope that they'll get over this soon. 3:42pm Jennifer McClure @Carmen - True. HR doesn't like SM - because they haven't taken the time to understand it for the most part. We need to get some champions involved who can show others how to use it well. 3:42pm Maren Hogan @Susan, no way I can keep up with this 3:42pm Susan Burns Jennifer - but do you think it reflects negatively on the profession since theres a difft. expectation there? Maybe they should be bonded for truth, transparency and authenticity ;-) 3:43pm Maren Hogan I am sorry. Next time I will login to explorer to capture from the beginning 3:43pm William One of the things I'm doing is being a source of market info to the company and HR... I'm using sm to tell them what they should already know (and giving sm credit) 3:43pm Susan Burns @maren - you should be able to capture the whole thing at the end since u were on from beginning. 3:43pm Ben Gotkin What HR needs to understand is that our candidates demand authenticity, and that we as recruiters are not going to do anything in the SM space to hurt the organizatoin 3:43pm Susan Burns Ben had a trick last time - maybe he can get it.....Ben? 3:43pm Jennifer McClure @Susan - no more than the CEO should. :) 3:43pm Susan Burns I'll format it if someone can capture it 3:43pm Ben Gotkin Susan - I can give it a try 3:44pm Susan Burns cool - thanks Ben! 3:44pm Lance Haun I think HR has less of a problem with recruiters using than say another employee 3:44pm Jennifer McClure @William has a good point. As a recruiter - he's partnering with HR in his organization to help them understand SM. Maybe that's OUR role! 3:44pm Susan Burns @jennifer - exactly! HR can be the conscious of the org and be a strategic player and guide to enable people and biz 3:45pm Ben Gotkin Lance - That's why a specific policy is important, make the guidelines clear 3:45pm Lance Haun Ben - I think expectations need to be set for sure 3:46pm William @Lance, @Ben and I'd add resources.. 3:46pm William such as a central clearing place for information (some folks have a SM Mgr) 3:46pm Ben Gotkin What type of resources? 3:47pm Jim - medXcentral Are we talking about SM resources and the policy for using them as corp recruiters? 3:47pm Susan Burns @william - resource for managing community? If so, absolutely!!! Needs to be a community manager 3:47pm Jennifer McClure @Lance & @Ben - I like Zappos "guidelines" for SM that Tony quoted on his blog about the layoffs. Something about be real and honest. That's it. If you create a "policy" you feed into the perceptions about HR - rule makers/gate keepers 3:47pm Rob Humphrey gotta run thank u all this is great.. @rob_humphrey (twitter) 3:47pm William brand, marketing rich media... 3:47pm William stuff that will content wise better represent your org 3:47pm Susan Burns Thanks for joining TTC Rob! 3:47pm Lance Haun Jennifer - I don't think a policy is always needed 3:47pm Rob Humphrey Thanks Susan! 3:47pm Lance Haun depends on your goals 3:48pm Lance Haun I think what a lot of Corp HR people need to realize is that people are already talking about your company 3:48pm Lance Haun policy or no policy doesn't change that 3:48pm Susan Burns @william - do u think that HR / Recruiting can effectively manage sm and incorporate into existing roles or does there need to be a dedicated community manager? 3:48pm Jennifer McClure @Lance - I like the word "guideline" (that's HR-speak for policy) :) 3:48pm William comcastcares (a guy on twitter) coaches other sm'ers in his corporation 3:48pm William so HR or the person's mgr doesn't have to play thought police 3:49pm Kari Quaas @Lance - yep - they are talking about you 3:49pm Lance Haun I think it is more about setting expectations and not playing thought police past that 3:49pm Jim - medXcentral Depends on the size of the co. ... agreed? 3:49pm Kari Quaas I always believe that it is best to control your message. 3:49pm William Kari, right but in Comcast's example... most orgs will go top down and try to control 3:49pm Kari Quaas For some of our clients, their HR depts are just too small to do it. 3:49pm Jennifer McClure @Kari - you can never control the message. The point of using SM is to participate in the conversations that are already happening 3:50pm Susan Burns If there are clear guidelines the community can self organize and determine direction - that is a tough thing for a public or private company to allow to happen - but, they must support the communiites desires 3:50pm William...if you offer to help peer coach it's better received and minimizes concerns 3:50pm Kari Quaas Right, but at least your side is out there. 3:50pm Recruiting Animal William, that presentation you mentioned at the beginning. Who was in the audience? 3:50pm Lance Haun if you don't allow your good employees to use SM, only the bad ones will be posting about you 3:50pm William @Kari, Jennifer... great point with SM you cannot control the conversation, only help influence it 3:50pm Ben Yoskovitz @Kari: I agree. You can put out a message and participate, which is a form of control...at least you're there. 3:51pm William @RA HR folks (some recruiting too): http://www.slideshare.net/foghornboy/hr-and-social-media-influencing-the-conversation-presentation/ 3:51pm Recruiting Animal 70 losers, then. Thanks 3:51pm Susan Burns the word control is a bit scarry - nothing can be controlled with social media....it can only be influenced. 3:51pm Kari Quaas Yep. We see it all the time on our social network. The employees talk (A LOT). For good or bad, they talk. 3:51pm William @RA I love that you are so wishy washy about your opinions 3:51pm Ben Yoskovitz You want to promote your brand in a particular way, and that's reasonable. And SM is a great way to do it. 3:51pm Jim - medXcentral That's what scares the big co's. 3:52pm William @Susan, @Jim great points 3:52pm Susan Burns RE control - as soon as the community feels control or manipulated the value of what your trying to build becomes diluted. 3:52pm William @Susan because it ceases to be authentic 3:52pm Jim - medXcentral @Susan... 100% agreement. 3:52pm Ben Yoskovitz @Susan Fair, but playing a bit devil's advocate - influencing is a form of manipulation :) 3:52pm Susan Burns The whole idea of sm is to build a voice, play and influence - if it works the positive overshadows the negative. 3:53pm Ben Yoskovitz Some might argue that he (or she) who yells loudest wins. 3:53pm Susan Burns Ben - yes, influence could be perceived as manipulation - all depends on the intention = authentic voice and actions 3:53pm Ben Yoskovitz Whether through traditional means or SM. 3:53pm Lance Haun Ben - That's right. And actively encouraging your best employees to be actively involved in SM is big time manipulation 3:53pm Jennifer McClure @Ben - then @Animal is the clear winner right? 3:53pm Susan Burns @ben - yes, but the community should quiet the outliers - did I spell that correctly?? 3:54pm Susan Burns Thanks for the laugh @jennifer! 3:54pm Business Support by Mittie I have learned a lot today 3:54pm Kari Quaas Anyone see this article - http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1842104,00.html? 3:54pm Kari Quaas It's about your online reputation. 3:55pm Ben Yoskovitz @Lance I don't have a problem with encouraging employees to participate in SM 3:55pm Jim - medXcentral @Lance how is that manipulation if it is what everyone wanted? 3:55pm Slouch William, thanks for doing this today 3:55pm Susan Burns @Lance - actively encouraging is not necessarily manipulation - if you force them yes - but if you invtite them, encourage them, help them see the value and even recognize them i don't see it as manipulation 3:55pm Lance Haun Ben - I said good employees? 3:55pm Ben Yoskovitz We rag on a few of our guys who don't blog :) Although at least one of them constantly argues that he microblogs... 3:55pm Lance Haun no ? 3:55pm Ben Yoskovitz What's wrong with encouraging them to use SM? 3:55pm Lance Haun it is one thing to encourage everyone 3:55pm Susan Burns Hey JD!! Awesome chat today - great topic by @williamu 3:55pm Ben Yoskovitz Isn't it the same as encouraging them to refer their friends? 3:55pm Lance Haun it is another thing to encourage people who you know will speak well 3:56pm Lance Haun how isn't that manipulation? 3:56pm Susan Burns @lance - do you take ALL employees to recruiting events or the good ones? I only took the best 3:56pm Ben Yoskovitz Once you've given them free reign to speak, they'll say what they want to say. 3:56pm Recruiting Animal Did someone say I'm the big winner. Hey I got a prize yesterday and there was no money invovled. What kind of winning is that? 3:56pm Ben Yoskovitz And I didn't say it wasn't manipulation. But we all want positive stuff said about us... 3:56pm Susan Burns RA - you won a luke warm cup of Toronto coffee ;-) 3:56pm Ben Yoskovitz We don't post testimonials on our corporate site that are bad. 3:56pm Lance Haun Susan - you take good ones but isnt that the manipulated perception of HR we all hate and that lacks authenticity? 3:57pm Jennifer McClure @Animal - you win our undying admiration and affection 3:57pm Recruiting Animal Lenin said that when the state withers away the people on the street will take care of the bad apples themselves. 3:57pm Jim - medXcentral nice 3:57pm Susan Burns I always thought of it as recongition for those that were top performers. There are many things that concern me about HR but that isn't one of them 3:58pm Susan Burns @Lance - I think that depending on how HR communicates it and speaks to those that want to be included, then yes, there could be issues - so I see more of what your saying with that 3:58pm Recruiting Animal @Jenny Money don't get everything that true. But What it don't get I cant uste 3:58pm Recruiting Animal use 3:58pm Ben Yoskovitz I think the challenge is that it's darn near impossible for corporations to be 100% authentic. Then again, I'm not sure ANYONE is 100% authentic all the time. 3:59pm Jim - medXcentral @Ben... agreed. 3:59pm Maren Hogan my 2 yr old is! 3:59pm Kari Quaas @ben true 3:59pm Ben Yoskovitz @Maren Are you sure? :) 3:59pm Jim - medXcentral @Maren ... from the mouths of babes 3:59pm Maren Hogan yep, Rocky is the real deal 3:59pm Ben Yoskovitz @Maren I swear my 4 year old is a master manipulator...although maybe that's his authentic self anyway. 3:59pm Lance Haun Ben - 100% authenticity isn't going to happen 3:59pm Susan Burns This has been a fabulous chat! 3:59pm Jennifer McClure @Ben - but if you're authentically unauthentic that's authentic - right? 3:59pm William From social media to socialism (Lenin). Alright - wow. Thx Susan for setting this up. Thx to everyone being so "shy". Great stuff. 3:59pm Recruiting Animal They're talking about the kids. Time to go 3:59pm Susan Burns William - do you have any final thoughts before we wrap? 4:00pm Maren Hogan the word authentic makes me think of pottery barn which is not authentic 4:00pm Lance Haun Maren - that's good branding 4:00pm Ben Yoskovitz @Lance: Right. So companies have a responsibility to put out their message - and the community provides a check against absolute stupidity from corporations. 4:00pm Kari Quaas Good stuff, thanks! 4:00pm Susan Burns William - you were fabulous! Great topic and guided us though a really fun, active and dynamic chat! 4:00pm William Social media is about being authentic, dialogue that's published... we need to help HR catch the vision of SM. 4:00pm Maren Hogan Just so Im clear, all I have to do to get Animal to leave is talk about my kids! Eureka! 4:00pm Business Support by Mittie I am really glad I found this site.... 4:00pm Lance Haun Ben - I agree. :) 4:01pm Jennifer McClure Have a great day everyone - and hug and HR pro while you're at it! :) 4:01pm Jim - medXcentral Keep it rolling. Does not have to stop now. 4:01pm Recruiting Animal I'll also leave if people start talking about their operations 4:01pm Susan Burns Thanks everyone! Don't foget Suzy Tonini this THursday on Talent Talk CAfe - her topic is Competitive Intelligence!…
- Added by Susan Burns at 1:02am on November 14, 2008
- Topic: Transcript - Talent Talk Cafe: Week of Nov 17th - Jerry Albright on Agency Recruitment Best Practies and Processes
- st the tip of the Chat and I'm sure we'll see this continue in December! Following is an overview of Jerry's topic and the Chat transcript. You can also find Jerry online HERE! 3:03pm Susan Burns It all yours Jerry! 3:03pm Maren Hogan Let's hear it for the boy 3:03pm Jerry Albright thanks! 3:03pm Susan Burns (hi Pam! hi Josh - long time Josh!) 3:03pm Julia Stone clap, clap, whistle 3:03pm Jerry Albright That makes me laugh Maren! 3:03pm Joshua Letourneau hi, susan :) 3:03pm Maren Hogan :) 3:04pm Susan Burns Hey roomie! 3:04pm Jerry Albright I see the crowd is getting just a bit bigger each time with TTC. 3:04pm Jerry Albright Today's theme is Agency Recruiting 3:04pm Kondalarao :-) 3:04pm Jerry Albright I'm not an expert in social media, ATS, branding or the other stuff. 3:05pm Jerry Albright and today I'm just going to throw out some of the principals I personally stick with. 3:05pm Jerry Albright i wish I could type faster! 3:05pm Jerry Albright let me dig one up here for you... 3:06pm Jerry Albright 11. If your client is within a days drive – you MUST meet them personally. 3:06pm Jerry Albright These are just random by the way - you can tell that's number 11. 3:06pm Jerry Albright Do you visit your clients? 3:06pm Susan Burns I like that Jerry! We understimate the f2f time 3:06pm Maren Hogan Do you always have to bring food? Seems like vendoras always bring food 3:07pm Julia Stone absofreakinlulely 3:07pm Jerry Albright I never do. 3:07pm Jerry Albright should I? 3:07pm Maren Hogan around christmas it starts to irritate me 3:07pm Joshua Letourneau i bring rubber frogs - seriously :) well, jelly ones 3:07pm A Lonnie McRorey what are vendoras? 3:07pm Susan Burns Food is good - calculators are bad! 3:07pm Maren Hogan I don't know. Tell me, if I am a brands new recruiter (:) what is the ONE process I should have in place 3:07pm Maren Hogan vendoras=vendors 3:07pm Jerry Albright OK. So I personally believe you should meet absolutely EVERY client that gives you a job order. 3:07pm Joshua Letourneau they're good for stress relief and adults are kinesthetic (give 'em somethin to play with and their brain fires more) :) 3:08pm Jerry Albright I've lost the crowd already Susan............ 3:08pm Julia Stone I'm with you 3:08pm Maren Hogan before or after they've given you the order Jerry? 3:08pm Sue so am I 3:08pm Susan Burns I think u got em rolling on ideas Jerry! 3:08pm A Lonnie McRorey Close to the Spanish of Vendedoras 3:08pm Carol Thornton go ahead! 3:08pm Julia Stone ribbit, stay focused Lonnie 3:08pm Jerry Albright I go after I take the order. It's part of my process. 3:08pm Jerry Albright If they won't make time to see me.... 3:09pm Sue suppose they don't want to meet w/u 3:09pm Jerry Albright then I'm doubting they will make time to work with me 3:09pm Carol Thornton What if your clients are all over the country and F2F is not an option? 3:09pm Jerry Albright it really is that simple Sue. Really. 3:09pm Julia Stone I agree with Jerry. I have another one too, can I add? 3:09pm Jerry Albright Good point Carol. 3:09pm Susan Burns Jerry - how do u frame the purpose of the meeting 3:10pm Jerry Albright I just let them know that since I'll be representing them I would like to get to know them better. 3:10pm Joshua Letourneau can i interject a fringe idea? a small one . .. 3:10pm Susan Burns So prupose is tied to outome - as we get to know each other I can represent your brand better? 3:10pm pam claughton It's to their benefit to meet with you as you'll get a better sense of their environment. 3:10pm Susan Burns Josh - yes Julia - yes!! 3:10pm Julia Stone I have a 3 page intake form that I use during my initial meeting, I pick & choose. 3:11pm Jerry Albright Oh I forgot. 3:11pm Sue that is a good idea intake form 3:11pm Susan Burns pick and choose questions to ask or clients to take on 3:11pm Joshua Letourneau can you bring a flip cam and interview some 'co-workers' to help give the candidate a better feel of the culture/environment? 3:11pm Jerry Albright The term is "intake" now.....sorry PC Cops - I'll never say "job order" again....my bad 3:11pm pam claughton Josh, that's a fun idea! 3:11pm Susan Burns great idea Josh - don't forget the release form ;-) 3:11pm Julia Stone I bring an intake form to ask questions about teh company, culture, management style, etc 3:11pm Julia Stone One time, I asked what is your management style, he said...What's the right answer? 3:11pm Joshua Letourneau i'd probably wind up in jail :) 3:12pm Jerry Albright My goal in meeting my client is to get to know HIM or HER better. 3:12pm Susan Burns Jerry - how often do clients decline the meeting and what are the reasons they give 3:12pm Jerry Albright They rarely do. I'll admit - some meetings are short. 3:13pm Dean Lockett and to get face time with the watchdog of the office - get them to recognize you 3:13pm Jerry Albright But any client serious about hiring would certainly want to meet don't you think? 3:13pm Cathy McCullough do you "benchmark" resumes? I find that helps because it turns the conversation from a wish list to a reality check 3:13pm Maren Hogan Do you think that it shows something about your commitment to go there even for a ten minute meeting? 3:13pm Jerry Albright as I've mentioned before - I show up early and hang out in the cozy lobby seeing whose coming and going. 3:13pm Joshua Letourneau 'cuz they're working with 10 other firms on a vendor list or thorugh an online VMS . . . so they just want tons of resumes 3:13pm Susan Burns I agree - I always appreciate it from vendors - esp if they are focused and have a purpose & intention that will benefit the biz 3:13pm Jerry Albright Maren - yes. 3:13pm Dean Lockett Suggest team meetings if possible - I've gotten that on a first meet before 3:14pm Jerry Albright Your a heavy hitter Dean. 3:14pm Jerry Albright This is a fact: 3:14pm pam claughton I think they take you more seriously too if they invest a little time to meet with you. Shows you that they want to get the job filled. 3:14pm Susan Burns Quick interruption - can someone with IE please copy the chat stream at the end so I can paste the Chat in the Forum - Thanks! 3:14pm Julia Stone if I don't understand the culture & get to see the place, how can I possibly place the right person. I am not a magician. At least not professionally 3:14pm Jerry Albright If a client does not want to meet you - then they do not value you or your time. 3:15pm Joshua Letourneau jer, that's when you pull a D-Trump on 'em 3:15pm Gregg Alper how would you gauge who is serious and who isn't with clients not in your area that you can't meet? 3:15pm Susan Burns Ideally this investemtn in the beginning should return more "right-fit" candidates so its a good investment of time 3:15pm A Lonnie McRorey Jerry do you focus on the painful spots from the get go? 3:15pm pam claughton If they move into new space, good idea to go back in for a visit too. 3:15pm Jerry Albright Let's go with Gregg's Q here. 3:15pm Carol Thornton I can't meet with my clients so I talk to them about where they have gotten good people from in the past. This gives me a culture idea 3:15pm Julia Stone Julia's rule...I don't like to work with anyone who won't give me their cell phone number. 3:15pm Jerry Albright OK. Gregg you work long distance clients? 3:15pm pam claughton Julia, that's interesting, how did that come about? 3:15pm Dean Lockett In your meeting with HM, let them know you are looking for a sponsor to intro you to other HM's AFTER you've taken care of the person ur meeting with of course 3:16pm Susan Burns Gregg - maybe a Skype meeting if an alternative to close the distance or at least a conf call 3:16pm Gregg Alper yes. i am on east coast, some clients on the west. 3:16pm Jerry Albright If that's the case you can still gauge whether they value your time or not. 3:16pm Gregg Alper thats a good idea 3:16pm Jerry Albright Gregg - ask them to call you back. 3:16pmpam claughton You can often tell how serious they are too by how they respond to your initial submissions 3:16pm Julia Stone Well, they want us to spend 2-3 weeks worth of time with the possiblity of no pay at the end. I want to see if they are going to put any skin in the game 3:16pm Joshua Letourneau if you super-niche yourself, you can still work a large geography range . . . but i always try (at some point) to physically meet 3:17pm Dean Lockett www.gotomeeting.com might be an option 3:17pm Gregg Alper like what kind of niche Joshua? 3:17pm Jerry Albright But just how far away would a client have to be to think you wouldn't want to meet them? 3:17pm Joshua Letourneau for me, i spend most search time in a small engineering area where the candidate pool is finite 3:17pm Carol Thornton I'm in ATL and my clients are in Chicago, Dallas, Philly, etc 3:17pm pam claughton A friend of mine works the Boston area but lives in Upstate NY and she visits all her Boston clients, a 4 hour drive at least. 3:18pm Carol Thornton too far to drive 3:18pm Jerry Albright It would show them alot if you flew in 3:18pm Joshua Letourneau gregg, perhaps opto-electronics engineering or something along those lines (and then you can branch out to operational roles around that niche as well) 3:18pm Susan Burns Carol - is it worth the investment to do a quarterly touch base with past, current and prospective clients. Is there enough in each market? 3:18pm Shannon Myers Conferences are a good place to at least meet your clients. 3:18pm Jerry Albright seriously. what's $500 when you think about a 20K fee? 3:19pm Jerry Albright I wouldn't do it every time Carol. 3:19pm Julia Stone I met a client in ATL at a conference in sept, it was extremely helpful in moving us to the next level 3:19pm Carol Thornton true, but usually one client in each location 3:19pm Jerry Albright but I'd certainly meet every client who hired from me - regardless of location. 3:19pm Joshua Letourneau jer, a small co-tainer up front can help offset that as well (a $1k engagement fee or something along those lines) 3:19pm Carol Thornton I staff for managers and execs within the staffing industry so my clients are spread out 3:20pm Jerry Albright that might work. it's not my style though. 3:20pm Susan Burns Is an online meeting as valuable - can you close the virtual distance and get the same results? 3:20pm Jerry Albright I have no idea. 3:20pm Susan Burns Lets keep in mind being green too - maybe there's a way to leverage the idea of virutal? 3:20pm Julia Stone no, i don't hink so susan, it might be better than a call, but ti might just be a pain to them if they don't have a set up to do it 3:20pm Jerry Albright anything that moves your relationship forward is a good idea. 3:20pm Maren Hogan I think it's like being a good writer or having a skill, some people can do the virtual thing and others hate it 3:20pm Joshua Letourneau i've tried that, susan - but it's not the same as doing body shots with HR :) 3:20pm Maren Hogan The actual skill lies in being able to make others feel comfortable 3:21pm Gregg Alper thats not bad. i have mostly been IT and looking at other fields to focus more on one niche area 3:21pm Jerry Albright Ready for the next Random Principal? 3:21pm Carol Thornton yes 3:21pm Jerry Albright OK. Just a sec. 3:21pm Susan Burns Give us #10 Jerry!! 3:22pm Jerry Albright 14. Remove Caller ID from your phone. 3:22pm pam claughton Really, why? 3:22pm Julia Stone incoming or outgoing jer? 3:22pm pam claughton I love my caller ID :) 3:22pm Jerry Albright I want to receive each call with the same enthusiasm 3:22pm Jerry Albright incoming Julia. 3:23pm Maren Hogan #15 don't give your cousin your work phone number 3:23pm Julia Stone if that is the goal, might I also suggest standing up when you answer calls or make them? 3:23pm Jerry Albright Sure. 3:23pm Julia Stone I suggest you stand up when making calls 3:23pm Jerry Albright That's funny. 3:23pm pam claughton I think I'm a techie geek...I like knowing whose calling in. 3:24pm Cathy McCullough Also, you should consider shutting down IM and email when making recruiting calls. 3:24pm Jerry Albright so OK then - stick with your caller ID. 3:24pm Shannon Myers I would have trouble with that as well 3:24pm Julia Stone agreed cathy, I turn of my monitor 3:24pm pam claughton that's a good suggestion....email can be distracting 3:24pm Jerry Albright I take every call if I am in. No matter what. 3:25pm Jerry Albright 12. Do not assume anything – like an unemployed person can start right away or “any reasonable offer” will be accepted. Have the discussion with every person – every time. 3:25pm pam claughton twhirl is the most distracting thing on my desktop...have to shut it down often 3:25pm Susan Burns Jerry - is there something thats driving #12 - what has been your experience and is it shifting with the economy and hosing market?? 3:26pm Julia Stone wow, insightful jerry. I have learned that there is no such thing as overcommunicating, but I just learned it this year 3:26pm Susan Burns oops- housing! althouh we are all getting hosed!! 3:26pm pam claughton #12 is the most critical thing. you need to know everything and anything can change from day to day. 3:26pm Jerry Albright Assumptions kills us every time. 3:26pm Joshua Letourneau "has anything changed?" is the question that has to be asked each and every conversation . .. to the point they're telling you "No" before you even ask 3:26pm Susan Burns Pam - how often do you follow-up to make sure the candidate is still on track with agreements? 3:26pm Jerry Albright no Josh. not "has" anything changed. 3:27pm pam claughton every time I talk to them, even it's daily. 3:27pm Jerry Albright it is "WHAT HAS CHANGED" and then be quiet....... 3:27pm Joshua Letourneau touche - i like that 3:27pm Jerry Albright huuuuuuuge difference there. 3:27pm pam claughton especially if they're a good candidate, an offer in hand can change their notion of what they now want. 3:27pm Dean Lockett who,what,where,when,how, why - all open end starters 3:27pm A Lonnie McRorey Powerful 3:27pm Jerry Albright but "has" anything changed is Far better than..... 3:27pm Jerry Albright "Nothing's changed, right?....." 3:28pm Joshua Letourneau the point is, "ask" and be cognizant that things do, in fact, change - i don't know if there are perfect questions for every candidate . .. but i agree with "what's changed?" 3:28pm Jerry Albright pretty heavy indeed. 3:28pm pam claughton Or they may have gotten a raise, and that can impact what you need to close them on. 3:29pm Dean Lockett Or their company just filed Chap 11 - happened to meX-( 3:29pm Jerry Albright 28. Before you extend an offer to your candidate – take 1 hour and do something else. 3:29pm pam claughton More common, in this market, since the last time you spoke even if its just a few days, they may now be unemployed. Several of my candidates were laid off this week! 3:29pm Jerry Albright 28. Before you extend an offer to your candidate – take 1 hour and do something else. 3:29pm Susan Burns i would imagine as well that with the current economic climate any new news could make them more skittish about making a move 3:30pm pam claughton Yes, Susan that is very true too. 3:30pm Joshua Letourneau susan, Bingo - that's my situation 3:30pm Joshua Letourneau especially clients that insist on relo for all roles 3:30pm Susan Burns noone wants to be the new kid on the block unless they are currently unemployed 3:30pm pam claughton I had someone cancel an in-house interview today because he didn't want to jeopardize his current contract situation. 3:30pm Shannon Myers Jer - 1 hour to do? 3:31pm pam claughton very strange market indeed. 3:31pm Susan Burns THanks Shanon - keep us focused! 3:31pm Jerry Albright Shannon - reflect 3:31pm Jerry Albright I remember my first offer. I was SO excited. I was going to just hop on the phone with the candidate! 3:31pm Gregg Alper i've had that. recently had a guy not want to pursue a spot that was a 2 year project because of his concerns and would rather finish out the current project that ends next month and then figure things out. to me that is crazy 3:31pm Maren Hogan So ";Do you have any spare change?" would be what. . .wrong? 3:31pm Jerry Albright my mentor said - HEY! Wait a minute! 3:32pm Dean Lockett review notes, bounce it off someone else, might catch something there u missed? 3:32pm Jerry Albright could be anything. 3:32pm pam claughton Gregg, I agree, my guy had a similar mindset. Nutty. 3:32pm Jerry Albright how about just enjoying what you have in your hand! 3:32pm Susan Burns Jerry - do you tend to alter anything in your offer approach given the current biz climate? 3:32pm Jerry Albright no. 3:32pm Jerry Albright not really. 3:32pm Dean Lockett I do that after offer signed and person shows up to the dance ;-) 3:32pm pam claughton Jerry, would you advise calling to pre-close at that point? 3:33pm Jerry Albright What do you mean Pam? 3:33pm pam claughton Well you said wait an hour...am assuming you've already pre-closed, but maybe not everyone here does that as a matter fo course before extending? 3:34pm Eric Gilson Shouldn't your candidate be pre-closed well in advance to this 3:34pm Dean Lockett Whole nuther chat could be applied to "pre-close" 3:34pm pam claughton Yes, Eric they should be, but this is where many new recruiters skip the crucial step i ntheir excitement. 3:34pm Jerry Albright They should have been closed on "let's go get an offer you'll accept" prior 3:34pm Rayanne you should always pre-close..., ie; "what would it take to land you?" 3:35pm Rayanne "hav you thought about a counter-offer?" 3:35pm Jerry Albright Usually your candidate and you have been working on "the things that need to be there" in advance. 3:35pm Dean Lockett what does your spose think about this oppty? 3:35pm Eric Gilson We don't present offers unless we are sure it is going to be accepted 3:35pm Joshua Letourneau i like to say, "so you're looking for 250 . . . but will take 30k, right?" :P don't try that at home 3:35pm Dean Lockett spouse ...sorry 3:35pm Jerry Albright correct Eric. 3:35pm Jim - medXcentral @eric... isn't that the point of Pre or test closing? 3:35pm Jim - medXcentral to be sure... 3:35pm Susan Burns Dean - very important - and that should be checked early and often. Have seen it kill mamy a deal late in the process 3:35pm pam claughton Yes, I don't like surprises...I pre-close more than once generally because things are fluid and often changing. 3:35pm Eric Gilson yes 3:35pm Rayanne "would you say no to...?" 3:36pm Jerry Albright What I hate is when the HR dept offers them the job directly and says "let us know within 5 days!" 3:36pm Julia Stone one of Julia's favorites: Can I accept the offer on your behalf ? 3:36pm Rayanne hate that too 3:36pm pam claughton Yes, I hate that. 3:36pm Eric Gilson We don't let our clients present the offer 3:36pm Eric Gilson That is what we do 3:36pm Shannon Myers I ask that one too Julia 3:36pm Rayanne I ate an HR dept that changes the comp offered... 3:36pm Dean Lockett that's part of pre-close with HR, but still happens 3:36pm Rayanne *hate 3:36pm pam claughton I always have them call the client to accept directly with them...seems more binding and they both love it. 3:36pm Joshua Letourneau yeah, HR sometimes wants to "stick to their process" (the same one that leads to 20% fallouts for them) 3:37pm Jerry Albright Eric - there's always a rogue HR member out there - be careful! 3:37pm Susan Burns So its ok for acceptance to go directly to the client but not for client to extend the offer - logic?? 3:37pm Eric Gilson exactly Josh 3:37pm Rayanne true 3:37pm Jerry Albright Susan 3:37pm Joshua Letourneau i'm just playing :) but I run into that like everyone else sometimes 3:37pm Susan Burns Hey - careful about that HR thing ;-) 3:37pm Jerry Albright offer extension is sales. 3:37pm Shannon Myers One firm I worked with did offer with candidate then conferenced in HR to do official acceptance 3:37pm Jerry Albright HR is not typically a "closer" 3:37pm pam claughton Susan it's a control thing. They accept with me, and then with the clinet. If the client extends, too many things can go wrong as they don't close as well as we do. 3:37pm Susan Burns But are u dealing with HR generalist or with Recruiters? 3:37pm Jerry Albright they leave it quite open actually.....:( 3:38pm pam claughton it varies 3:38pm Eric Gilson Success is more likely when the driver of the process has a vested interest in the deal 3:38pm Susan Burns oh this is painful to hear! I gues I've been lucky to have very good recruiters working with me! 3:38pm Maren Hogan whoa go new guy! 3:39pm Joshua Letourneau a great trainer once told me that HR relies on us to use our own process - it's the only way we should take on the search with any degree of comfort (i.e. anything less is not an A+ assignment) 3:39pm pam claughton Susan, it's also what the client is paying us to do. 3:39pm Rayanne You can head off mos tof these problems by keeping open communication 3:39pm Rayanne maybe even have the negotiation and offer process mentioned in your contract or proposal 3:39pm Susan Burns Pam - if its in the SLA i agree 3:39pm Rayanne true, Josh 3:40pm Jerry Albright OK. So where are we? 3:40pm Dean Lockett what's lucky #13 Jer? 3:40pm Jerry Albright I skip that number 3:40pm Susan Burns Just to provide an laternate view - I have worked with TPR with great success but it was the internal recruiter that extended the offer - it forms an important bond at the beginning 3:40pm Rayanne good 3:40pm Dean Lockett face ur fears ;-) 3:41pm Jerry Albright that's one of my random principals Dean. 3:41pm Jerry Albright but we don't have time for it today. 3:41pm Joshua Letourneau agreed, susan - this does work with good communication. i couldn't agree more (to pam's point of pre-closing) 3:41pm Dean Lockett that is #13 isn't it? 3:41pm Jerry Albright let's do this one......... 3:41pm Susan Burns ANd Josh - agree that if it not a skilled corp recruiter then the TPR should extend 3:42pm Jerry Albright 25. Our job is not “social work”. If you’re in this profession to primarily “help people” you’re in the wrong field. Sorry :( 3:42pm Joshua Letourneau susan, we're control freaks :P 3:42pm Susan Burns and so are we '-) 3:42pm Rayanne no social work for me 3:42pm pam claughton Susan, agree it can work as long as there's communication and we know what the offer will be and can still pre-close. 3:42pm Rayanne communication is the key Pam 3:42pm Susan Burns Jerry - more info please 3:42pm Rayanne ' 3:43pm Dean Lockett Social doesn't pay the bills, like Social Security :-0 3:43pm Jerry Albright You need to keep your "emotions" off your desk. 3:43pm Eric Gilson absolutely 3:43pm Rayanne Passion is part of this job, though 3:43pm Jerry Albright We're not here to "help people find better jobs". 3:43pm Joshua Letourneau i get satisfaction from "helping people" and changing lives . . . but to your point, i can't help 'everyone' 3:43pm Jerry Albright Oh Rayanne - I'm certainly passionate. 3:43pm Rayanne I know that 3:43pm pam claughton Jerry, true you can't get too vested in any one outcome 3:44pm Eric Gilson How do you know if you are changing their lives for the better? 3:44pm Rayanne but I have certainly become too attached to candidates in the past 3:44pm Joshua Letourneau Eric, great question :) it's all perception, right!!? 3:44pm Susan Burns aren't u also trying to "sell" a better opp? Isn't that part of the pitch? So, I ask - is it authentic and sincere? 3:44pm Jerry Albright There are better jobs. 3:45pm Susan Kang Nam Eric - great question 3:45pm Eric Gilson I look at it as offering them an opportunity 3:45pm Rayanne If it is the right candidate, it isn 3:45pm pam claughton Susan, I think it has to be. 3:45pm Susan Burns Eric - only they can determine that 3:45pm Julia Stone You are being paid to find the best possible person for the job, unless the candidates are paying you 3:45pm Rayanne isn't a "sell" 3:45pm Joshua Letourneau sometimes you absolutely know when you're improving their lives (like when they're close to shooting their current mgr) 3:45pm Eric Gilson Right, so I don't go about my workday thinking I am helping or hurting anyone 3:45pm Jerry Albright Hold on a minute here... 3:45pm Eric Gilson I am just an information broker 3:45pm Joshua Letourneau other times, it's a money play and they know they might make trade-offs for more $$$ (like more travel, longer hrs, etc.) 3:45pm Jerry Albright I'm not saying the people don't benefit. 3:46pm Jerry Albright Of course they do. 3:46pm Rayanne I think of it as bringing all the pieces together 3:46pm pam claughton There's a fine line between pushing someone and showing them, giving them information to see that this role offers what they want. 3:46pm Rayanne When you push, you lose objectivity 3:46pm Julia Stone I don' t think it is a fine line. I just work to know the info before my clients see them 3:46pm Rayanne and it becomes only about the close 3:46pm Jerry Albright I've never pushed in my work 3:46pm Jerry Albright I hate that. 3:46pmpam claughton When you push, either client or candidate, then you have a great chance of a falloff, and those are no fun. 3:46pm Jerry Albright Really I do. 3:47pm Dean Lockett Takeaways are better than pushing 3:47pm Julia Stone ok that made no sense. I mean I need to know their sincerity before submitting them about the company. It NEVER works to push anyone 3:47pm Jerry Albright I use to work with a guy who would never take no for an answer. 3:47pm Rayanne true 3:47pm pam claughton I don't push either, and that's why I have an almost unheard of falloff ratio. :) 3:47pm Rayanne sometimes no is the answer 3:47pm Jerry Albright Then Pam - you're not pushing enough...... 3:47pm Jerry Albright :) 3:47pm Jerry Albright there's a balance there that's for sure. 3:47pm Joshua Letourneau churn n' burn - place n' bill :P 3:48pm Susan Burns From a corp perspective I apprecitae when a TPR can sell the opp but balance with the reality - I want a truly interested and invested candidate by the time they get to my desk 3:48pm Julia Stone I had a candidate the summer who the client wanted 10/10, his interest was a 4/10. I had to tell him to withdraw from the process & I Had to start over. broke my heart but boy did it strengthen my relationship wtih client & candidate 3:48pm Eric Gilson That leads to having to make Marketing Calls Josh 3:48pm Rayanne you did the right thing, Julia 3:48pm Susan Burns Julia- i would hire you with that story! 3:48pm Jerry Albright Gold Star Julia. 3:48pm Julia Stone yep, but it sucked 3:48pm Rayanne yep 3:48pm Julia Stone and i did get teh hire, just took another 2 weeks 3:49pm Jerry Albright (((((golf clap for Julia)))))) 3:49pm Rayanne yea!! 3:49pm Rayanne clap clap 3:49pm Julia Stone stop, don't, stop, really! :) 3:49pm Rayanne lol 3:49pm Joshua Letourneau Julia, i've been scared my client would hire a candidate i didn't want them to! 3:49pm Rayanne I've had that too 3:49pm Susan Burns Yes, sometimes you must save us from ourselves ;-) 3:49pm Jerry Albright Ready for another quickie topic? 3:49pm Rayanne SOmetimes you send filler candidates because they wat a field of ten... 3:50pm Rayanne yes 3:50pm Julia Stone ready 3:50pm Joshua Letourneau they're great at first . .. and then something is said to worry you . . . 3:50pm Jerry Albright 23. I am not interested AT ALL in being the first recruiter a company agrees to use. 3:50pm Jerry Albright Now way. Never. 3:50pm Jerry Albright Thanks, but no. 3:50pm Eric Gilson Send them my way Jerry 3:50pm Rayanne I agree 3:50pm Joshua Letourneau i like being a human pinata :) 3:50pm Jerry Albright You'll be sorry Eric. 3:50pm Rayanne Theya re not readyy for the process 3:50pm Julia Stone I have never asked that question. and I am so surprised you have 23 of these 3:50pm A Lonnie McRorey Correct 3:51pm Dean Lockett Doesn't tell me they are used to paying fees 3:51pm Eric Gilson you are assuming that the HM has no expoerience dealing with TPR? 3:51pm Jerry Albright Each candidate you send has to be so far above the rest - you'll never get there. 3:51pm Jerry Albright End. Of. Story. 3:51pm Julia Stone ooh, I have one too, do you mind? 3:51pm Rayanne no the company has no exp and cannot possibly understand all that is involved - response time, fees 3:51pm Rayanne etc. 3:51pm Jerry Albright Get your own show Julia........ 3:52pm Joshua Letourneau most companies reject a new process . . . even if the old is broken. it's human nature to resist change 3:52pm Eric Gilson It could be a great opportunity to educate your client 3:52pm Rayanne you said a mouthful there 3:52pm Jerry Albright Undoubtedly the "we want to talk about your fee" discussion will come up AFTER you finally find a good person for them also..... 3:52pm Rayanne I don't want to educate, I want to fill and bill 3:52pm Joshua Letourneau that's when you become the human pinata 3:53pm Rayanne undoubtedly, J 3:53pm Eric Gilson I would accept the search, but when we accept a search, we have guidelines that we accpect from the client 3:53pm Rayanne or there is the 3:53pm Jerry Albright I like your enthusiasm Eric. 3:53pm Shannon Myers what if it's a retained search - first time using tpr 3:53pm Eric Gilson You would start a search without nailing down your fee ahead of time??? 3:53pm Julia Stone I have never had someon try to renegotiate a fee on me after a candidate is in the loop, ever 3:53pm Jerry Albright Shannon-Ok then. 3:53pm Rayanne "we spoke to that candidate already..." speech 3:53pm Jerry Albright Julia - you should get out more...... 3:54pm Julia Stone maybe you are right 3:54pm Jerry Albright but I was really just talking about the "first time" fee 3:54pm Jerry Albright that was one of the reasons I'll pass. 3:54pm Julia Stone I will stay away from virgin fees, next? 3:54pm Jerry Albright His resume was on MOnster. 3:54pm Rayanne yep, they don't like paying for anything... 3:54pm Rayanne true 3:54pm Jerry Albright Julia - do you have a topic? 3:54pm Shannon Myers I've done semi-retained with my MD Practices who have never used a TPR, a small consulting fee to go through whole outline with them and then contingency for actual placement 3:54pm Julia Stone why, funny you should ask, jer? 3:55pm Rayanne hmmmm 3:55pm Julia Stone Rule #23.3 I always tell the manager something negative about the candidates when I submit them, but explain why I send them anyway. 3:55pm Joshua Letourneau companies now have researchers identifying candidates we submit - if there is a LI profile, they say they downloaded that candidate already 3:55pm Rayanne wow 3:55pm pam claughton Julia, why do you do that? 3:55pm Susan Burns Shannon - that is a great approach - its a nice way to educate and build a lasting relationship 3:55pm Rayanne that's happened to me so many times, Josh 3:55pm Julia Stone because they are used to us selling people, I try to show them we aer a partner 3:55pm Jerry Albright Julia - do you make something up? 3:55pm Susan Burns Julia- I like that - noone is perfect and it will help set the candidate up for long term success 3:56pm Julia Stone no, I don't 3:56pm Eric Gilson Why do you work with clients that work against you? 3:56pm pam claughton Josh, people are claiming profile on LinkedIn as a 'candidate' that's absurd. 3:56pm Rayanne that would be unethical 3:56pm Gregg Alper josh, thats the problem with working on spots where the candidates are all over the web 3:56pm Rayanne the whole, lying thing... 3:56pm A Lonnie McRorey Josh i can second that 3:56pm Joshua Letourneau pam, that's why blind resumes are a big-time no-no nowadays 3:56pm pam claughton I wouldn't work with a client that did that. Everyone is on LinkedIn these days, doesn't mean they are a candidate. That shows they don't respect the recruiter. 3:57pm Jerry Albright Or just cover it during the standard "step 6 - cover "shock" factors/negatives" which clearly follows step 5 - schedule the send-out.... 3:57pm Susan Burns Josh - I would ask for a date. And, it applies only if the candidate was in their system prior to the search 3:57pm Jerry Albright Susan - any company doing that is playing games. 3:57pm Gregg Alper pam, that is the biggest problem with tech recruiting 3:57pm Eric Gilson I would find a new client 3:57pm A Lonnie McRorey Had Client say that they saw candidate on Facebook 3:57pm Joshua Letourneau many firms market blind resumes to get a shot to work an assignment . .. but then the blind resume is identified by the researcher :) 3:57pm Susan Burns Doing what Jerry? 3:57pm Rayanne If you maintain an active database..., they will always be in your system.. 3:57pm pam claughton I have an issue with candidate being in their system too...if htey haven't called the candidate, how do they really consdier it theirs? 3:57pm Joshua Letourneau so blind-resume senders/marketers are killin us! :) 3:57pm Eric Gilson It's clients like that who think all TPR suck 3:57pm Rayanne Your client may keep a DB also 3:57pm Jerry Albright Finding your candidate names on the internet. 3:58pm Julia Stone they also will sign up lots of agencies (some clients) just to get you to agree not to steal from them, with no intentions of working with you 3:58pm Eric Gilson they think that because the good TPR fire them 3:58pm Susan Burns Agree Jerry. It must be in their proprietary system. Still questionable but I've seen it clearly written into agreements 3:58pm Susan Burns And, LI netowrk is not a proprietary system! 3:58pm Joshua Letourneau julia, yep - so the non-poaching clause should be limited to only if you make a placement (and then 6 mths, at that) 3:58pm Rayanne that floods he market and sometimes the "rockstar" has been approached a number of times already 3:59pm Susan Burns Jerry - this has been a fabulous CHAT. Is there anything you would like to add in the final few minutes? 3:59pm Dean Lockett Nice chat evry1, 42 participants..sweet ;-) 3:59pm Rayanne woo-hoo 3:59pm Eric Gilson sorry I was late 3:59pm Rayanne active today 3:59pm Julia Stone most of my agreements say they are only in place as long as the agreement is in effect 3:59pm Rayanne me too 3:59pm pam claughton Some of my clients will still credit me for a placement if I submit them a candidate that is in their system previously, because they didn't think of them...the old but/for standard. 3:59pm Julia Stone me too, pam 3:59pm Susan Burns I think this is a new record! Many new names too! 3:59pm Julia Stone great talk, Jerry. you inspire me 3:59pm Joshua Letourneau pam, KEEP that client! 3:59pm Rayanne Have a great day, all!!! 3:59pm Susan Burns Its a dicey game Julia. I have mixed feeling about it 3:59pm Jerry Albright Thanks for coming everyone! 4:00pm Julia Stone what game susan? too much flying by you lost me 4:00pm Eric Gilson Thanks Jerry! See you again 4:00pm Jerry Albright I've got 40 more random principals to share next time! 4:00pm pam claughton By all....back to the resumes! Great chat Jerry. :) 4:00pm Eric Gilson May I request a topic for a future chat? 4:00pm Jerry Albright If anyone would like to connect - just send me an email or call me directly. 4:00pm Jerry Albright 888-293-9249 4:00pm Susan Burns Julia - having to write in a deal that says if the candidate is already in the proprietary DB the serach is void of payment. Maybe a negotiated cost but agree - why didn;t the company find them? 4:00pm Jerry Albright I love to talk about recruiting! 4:01pm Maren Hogan Eric, contact Miss Susan Burns, she is the boss of the chat 4:01pm Eric Gilson thanks! 4:01pm Susan Burns Jerry - guessing that we could keep working down your list in next chats? 4:01pm Jerry Albright sure thing Susan. 4:01pm Susan Burns Eric - YES...please send your ideas 4:01pm Susan Burns Thanks Everyone! This has been a fabulous Chat. Thanks to Jerry for hosting such a terrific topic and generating great dialogue! 4:02pm Maren Hogan w00t Jerry! Way to bring it! Nice work. I got whiplash watching this mother move!…
- Added by Susan Burns at 10:52am on November 21, 2008
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