This job’s requirements were for Storage Architects. The targets were companies in the U.S. involved in storage management solutions. Use your imagination, but companies like Cisco and HP and IBM would be similar to targets general size and scope. There were originally about twenty targets but to make matters really difficult, this unrealistic and skeptical young customer wanted to “test” out only a couple. Ouch. That limits the possibilities right there. She told me there would only be “a few” (maybe one or two) of the people holding these titles at the companies. “Wrong”, I thought. But at this point it’s useless to argue with a customer like this. I was regretting getting involved at this point.
Lesson to be learned here:
Customers that are wary and suspicious and don’t believe what you tell them regarding time/production estimates should be avoided. They think they know all there is to know about the spec at this point. She actually told me, “I happen to know five hours is a reasonable amount of time to generate names out of a few companies.” I said nothing, but I seethed. Remarks like this usually set a job for failure at this early stage. I told her I may be able to penetrate one, possibly two companies in her timeframe. She chose three. Probably the three she thought would be the hardest. I put my emotions on the shelf.
She sent me a few “names in” to the companies she’d chosen like they’d be privileged entrance tickets. Two of the names were names publicly available at the company websites: Chief Technology Officer and one or two VPs. All too high. One looked interesting though: “Director of Engineering.”
“I can get under him,” I thought. “No problem.” It was the first call I made.
“That name is not listed in the directory,” the receptionist (Shirley) coolly stated.
“I should’ve guessed,” I thought. Hope springs eternal in my breast, though, so I pushed on.
“Darn! I have him listed as the Director of Engineering there. My information is wrong! Can you please tell me who the Director of Engineering is?”
Silence. For a moment my heart swung open and I thought, "Maybe this won’t be so hard."
“No, do you have another name? We only list by names.”
“Oh. No, Shirley, I don’t. Let me check my information and get back to you.” Bruised but not broken I limped back to my word document. I reread the company explanation: “...raid on the storage market.... contends with EMC and IBM... storage systems... range in size from PC-sized units to massive cabinets...company targets large enterprises...focus on banking and telecommunications sectors.”
Hmmm...“banking and telecommunications”. Two notoriously tight lipped industries. "Hmmm...well, let’s see," I think to myself as I peel off the gloves. To Google I go. Typing in “‘storage architect” and “company name” nothing presented itself that I could use. Here’s a trick: Within the quotes “company name” add the word "at" as in “at company name” or the word "with" as in “with company name” or the word "for" as in “for company name”. This will bring you results of people that may work at/with/for the company. Pretty simple-minded but effective. Adding the at/for/with surfaced one name – eureka! That’s all I need. Let’s hope he’s still there.
Oh, I forgot to mention: the customer wanted to limit results further by adding a geographic preference into the mixture. Of course she wanted the San Jose, CA area first and foremost and then one other east coast location “would be okay” since one of the companies she chose was headquartered there. Jeez, Louise...
I did get her to admit that “they’d take names from anywhere – they’d been casting a pretty wide net” so I wasn’t too concerned about the geographic limitation. But, to please the customer (I can be such a push-over - I’m pitiful at times) I was trying to concentrate in Northern California.
I did the other two companies, similar search techniques that yielded a couple names. I was able to verify that a few of the names I found were still there. It grew late – California closed. It would have to wait until morning for more calling/checking. It being about 11 p.m. my time (eastern standard), I went to bed. Fast asleep I fell.
Remember, I just said, “It would have to wait until morning for more calling/checking”. Well, that’s not exactly true. The internet is a 24/7 beast that never sleeps. Its’ information portals are always open. And, surprisingly, so are the information portals of some night watchmen.
Up I get at 7 a.m. This job is on my mind. I’ve worried it in my sleep – I know I have a hard-to-please customer on my hands – chances are there’s no satisfying someone like this, I’ve been in these pickles before and I know what follows. Okay, it’s 7 here in Cincinnati and 4 in the morning in San Jose. I call one of the company locations in San Jose. A dozen or so rings and a sleepy male voice answers.
“Hello, WeNeverSleepCompanyName - Jim speaking.”
Poor thing. I woke him off his cot in the corner and he stumbled to the ringing telephone that’s on the desk next to a sleeping monitor just aching to be brought to life that’s wired into the company intranet. The following is the actual conversation that followed:
Quickly, “Hello Jim this is Maureen Sharib I’m trying to reach ‘Storage Architect’ – can you please give me his extension or his direct dial?”
I hit him fast and I hit him hard. No mercy. I sound like I know what I’m talking about. I’m not too demanding, just a teeny tiny bit of command creeps into my voice’s inflections. Jim's used to command structures.
“Huh? Uhhhh...,” he mumbles, shaking sleep off, wondering if he’s having a bad dream or back at Camp Pendleton. “Uhhhh, yeah, just a minute, lady. Let me see if I can find it here.”
I’m breathlessly waiting – could I be this lucky? I hear fumbling. Coughing. Then...
“Yeah, here he is - what’d you say you needed?”
“His telephone number, please.”
“Okay, yeah, here it is: 408 xxx xxxx,” he recites sleepily.
“Oh, Jim thank you so much – I also need to reach “Another Storage Architect” – can you please give me his number too?” I purr. Jim’s becoming my champion and I let him hear my appreciation.
“Sure,” he says, a little more awake now, and peels out the other guy’s number – seems this guy is located in NY.
“Oh,” I let disappointment creep into my voice - Jim picks up that he's somehow disappointed me. "I thought he was there in San Jose, does it show if he has an Administrative Assistant?” I ask innocuously and quickly once more.
“No, it doesn’t show one,” he remonstrates, sounding rather contrite.
This one remark tells me he may have the capability to look at whole groups.
I move in. “Oh darn – just in case I can’t reach him, does it show anyone else in his group?” I casually inquire.
I guess he's growing tired of disappointing me - maybe he just wants to go back to sleep because next he says, sounding just a tad bit over-helpful, “It just shows his Manager - Ralph (Something). You want his number?”
Reluctantly, I accept it, “Okay, I’ll try Ralph if I can’t get 'Another Storage Architect' to answer.” It seems Ralph is located in NJ I realize as I hear the area code Jim pronounces the number with.
“To be sure I have the right department, what is Ralph’s title?” I again casually ask.
“Development Manager,” he extra-sensor-perceptually answers.
“Oh thank you, Jim – I DO appreciate your efforts!”
“You’re welcome,” echoes his thankfulness. I can hear interest begin to gather again as we proceed.
“While we’re at this, let’s go back to that first 'Storage Architect' – does HE have an Administrative Assistant?”
“No, he doesn’t have one either but his manager looks to be “Tony Sarcossi - it says Storage Management after his name - you need his number?”
“Yes I do, thank you!’ I exclaim.
He gives it to me. Now it really gets interesting – pay attention. All this circling has brought me to the kill-shot. And you thought we were going away with manager names! Ha! Fasten your seat belts. We’re going into the outer reaches; actually, we’re going into the company’s bowels.
“Does Tony Sarcossi/Storage Management have anyone else listed beneath him besides Storage Architect?”
“Yeah, it looks like he has..,” he hesitates. I hope to God he’s counting, “looks like seven,” he finishes. He is counting!
“Oh, okay, I kinda’ thought so - can you tell me who they are?” I inquire. Be still my beating heart!
Quickly he reads off the names, I’m typing furiously into my silent keyboard and I get the gist of most of them. I go back on a couple and ask for verification. He spells those. I then ask for their phone numbers. I do this by asking for one, then another, then another. After the second one he’s in step with me and is ready with the number when I peel back the name to him. Name - Phone Number – Name - Phone Number. It doesn’t take long. THEN (yes I do have more nerve than a burglar!) I ask for their titles. Once again, Name – Title - Name - Title – Jim and I change leads with each other in the dance. Soon it's over.
Believe it or not, next I asked poor Jim to go back to the east coast group and he gave me that manager’s group also. There were about a dozen and they were all over the U.S. and a few were even in Northern California! I thanked him profusely and said good-bye. I’m quite sure Jim stumbled back to his cot and fell fast asleep. In the morning he’d forgotten the exercise and thought maybe he’d dreamed the whole thing. Though he wondered why he was so tired...
This is the kind of thing we're going to be talking about tonight in the MagicMethod Midnight Moves Sourcing Chat. If you go to bed early, set your clocks to get up - if you're in the eastern standard daylight savings time zone - it's midnight. Central is 11PM - Mountain is 10PM. Pacific time zone is 9PM - be there!
Duration: 1 hour Click here for international time zones or to find out yours.…
his experience has also proven to be as awful as the first. I would like to know if anyone else has had a similar experience with Bountyjobs.
In my first experience, I was working on a position for a client in Iowa. This was a Sr. Purchasing Manager position. I submitted several qualified candidates for this position via Bountyjobs. My point of contact was as usual, a Talent Acquisition Rep for the client with the open position. I found that this Rep was very unresponsive, and ignored messages via the Bounty Wall and Candidate Wall. This is the preferred method of communication, for Talent Acquisition Reps, an in a few moments you will know why.
I submitted 6 candidates for this position, before actually filling it. However I did not fill the position, by sending the candidate via Bountyjobs and communicating with the client via the site. I repeatedly requested feedback on submittals of candidates, due to the fact that all candidates were interested in the role, and wanted to know if there was interest on the client side. After repeatedly being ignored by the Talent Acquisition Rep via Bountyjobs, I began emailing the Rep to request feedback. All emails were also ignored. After about a month, I received an email from TA stating that a phone interview was requested on one of my candidates. luckily, that candidate was still available and interested. The candidate did the phone interview, and called me right after, very excited, stating that it went well. After a week, I reached out to see if there was feedback on the candidate via email as well as via the candidate wall on the BJ site. No response. None at all! After another week of the candidate calling and requesting feedback, I tried reaching out again, no response. I finally asked the name and contact information of the Hiring Manager that interviewed the candidate, and reached out to him. He provided feedback, stating that the candidate was not quite a match for the position. After doing that, the same day, I asked the HM if it was okay to send him the other candidates that I submitted via BJ to him directly, and he said that was fine,because he really needed to get the role filled. I sent over all 6 candidates, only to find out that after a whole month of sending candidates, the HM had only seen 1 of the candidates I submitted. Subsequently, one of the ones he had not even seen, that I submitted via BJ, got the position and is still employed with the client to this very day. After I filled the position, the TA called in and complained to BJ that I was "aggressive" and that she did not want to work with me again. That was okay with me.
Second horrible situation. I submitted a candidate via Bountyjobs to UTC Aerospace Systems for a position in Troy, OH. Candidate was not hired for that role. However a month later, this same candidate gets hired for a position with Pratt & Whitney. in Columbus, GA. Pratt & Whitney and UTC Aerospace Systems were basically the same company. They were both under United Technologies. Under Bountyjobs guidelines, if a candidate is hired within 6 months by a client, even if they did not get the original position they were interviewed for, the firm that submitted the candidate, is owed a fee. So I reached out to the HR Department at Pratt & Whitney in Columbus, GA, and explained the situation to the HR Manager. The manager told me flat out, "we do not owe you a fee, because we are not UTC Aerospace Systems and we do not use Bountyjobs" After this I reached out to Bountyjobs regarding the situation and Jeff Pacyna (Enterprise Account Specialist with BJ), stated that a fee was owed. He stated that he would get Chris Mason (VP, Customer Success with BJ), involved to get the matter resolved. Chris Mason reached out to me and requested that I not reach out to anyone at UTC regarding this matter, because they would get things taken care of. I waited over a year to be paid that fee, which was about $16k. Once a fee is owed, it is supposed to only take 60 days to get paid. But this one took over a year. I had several conversations via email and telephone with Chris Mason over the course of a year, with him assuring me that the matter was being handled. Chris Mason said that he had been in contact with UTC and that things were being handled. However I still had not received the fee. I finally reached out to the Director of Talent Acquisition at UTC. Chris Mason did not know I was even connected to this person. This contact checked into things and revealed that no one at UTC knew anything on this matter, which meant that Chris Mason lied to me for over a year regarding this situation. I finally had to threaten Chris Mason, to go public with this information, and in about 5 days, payment was received. During that year, I suggested to Chris Mason, that Bountyjobs just pay the fee that was owed to me, and handle their own collections with UTC. However, he stated that BJ does not pay out fees until the client pays BJ. I felt that maybe he did not want to hurt their relationship with UTC, and that was not my desire either, because I had built great rapport with UTC, and placed many candidates with them, so hurting the relationship would not benefit me in any way, however I still needed to be paid. After receiving the information from UTC, I called Chris Mason and told him what I found out. He denied everything of course, but offered to pay me 10% of what was owed to me, until the entire fee was paid. I turned it down, because I waited over a year. A year in which he lied to me repeatedly regarding this matter. I told him that if the entire fee was not paid within 5 days, I would go to NYC, where Bountyjobs is located and stand outside one of the local TV Stations, and that I would not leave until someone let me in to tell my story. Needless to say, I received the fee a few days later. About a week after, I was called by Chris Mason to state that UTC no longer wanted to do business with me, and that I was being removed from the BJ site. I did not care at all, because, if they were willing to allow this company to do something like this, I no longer wanted to deal with BJ anyway.
Third horrible situation. I was engaged on a Procurement Manager position for Harris Corporation. Position was in California. My point of contact was not a Talent Acquisition Rep, he was a contract recruiter working for YOH, name Vinay Singh. Vinay called my office one day, after i submitted a candidate. He was very rude, and asked if we were even speaking to the candidates that we were sending because all of them were way off the mark. He was so rude that I ended up hanging up on him. By this time, I had already submitted 4 candidates, and by the way, one of my candidates got hired. But not after Vinay went into BJ and rejected all my candidates, and closed out the job order in the BJ system. However, the candidate that was eventually hired, was doing interviews with Harris Corporation all along. The candidate called me after an onsite interview to let me know how things were progressing. So I sent Vinay an email to ask why the candidate was rejected in BJ, and Harris was still interviewing this candidate. He never responded, But later that say, I received a call from BJ, stating that Vinay called to complain, stating he felt threatened when I spoke to him via telephone, which was totally untrue. He knew that I caught him trying to do what we as recruiters refer to as a "Back Door Hire" My candidate called me that afternoon stating that Vinay Singh told her that if she kept communicating with me it would "hurt her chances at getting the position" These were his exact words. I couldn't believe this. All the while Bountyjobs is threatening me, stating that if they keep getting complaints I will be removed from the site. Despite the fact that I had proof of what he was doing, because the very candidate that Harris was about to hire, was showing as rejected in their system. So I reached out to the HM at Harris and explained all of this to him. He in turn, reached out to the TA Director with Harris and explained what Vinay Singh was attempting to do. The very next day, Vinay Singh opened a duplicate of that same position, and BJ reached out to me stating that I needed to re-submit the candidate to BJ. My candidate was eventually hired. BJ gave me NO support, in fact, they claimed that I was attempting to hurt their relationship with Harris Corporation, even after knowing all of what I speaking about here. So they basically took the side of the TA, even though I caught him red-handed, trying to steal that fee, and showed BJ the proof. BJ gets a percentage of all fees, so I explained to them that if the fee was stolen from me, it was being stolen from them as well. However they did not care one bit.
Fourth horrible situation. After Bountyjobs kicked me off the site, I went and pitched Harris Corporation directly, and was awarded a Direct Placement Agreement with their company, and no longer had to go through Bountyjobs. I began submitting candidates to them directly. A few months in L3 Communications merged with Harris Corporation, and they are now called L3Harris. After they merged, a few weeks later I was notified that all outside recruiters would have to work through Bountyjobs. Any recruiting firm that had a current contract agreement with Harris, would be given a login, to engage and work on their positions. I did not like this, but really had no choice. All external firms that had a current contract were given "Preferred Vendor" status in BJ, and instead of BJ taking their usual 25% of the fee, "Preferred Vendors" only have 3% of their fee taken by BJ. Again, working with BJ turned out to be another nightmare. Our point of contact are now, talent Acquisition Reps for L3Harris, and it's much of the same. Ignoring requests for feedback on candidates submitted. Candidates being interviewed, without the knowledge of the firms that submitted them. Complaining to BJ when we email the TA Reps is HUGE. However these same TA Reps email us all the time requesting interviews with candidates, etc. But when we email them, due to their lack of response, they call and complain to BJ, stating that they want all communications with outside firms to be via BJ. However I have seen them not even log into BJ for weeks at a time. While candidates are calling and asking for feedback. Clarissa Wiley with L3harris is a prime example and there are others. Clarissa will email about a candidate she is interested in having do a telephone interview with a HM. Candidate does phone interview, and then you hear NOTHING. No email responses, no responses in BJ after repeated attempts, etc. Then, when you send an email, after she has no problem emailing you about something she wants, trying to get feedback, she "only wants contact via BJ". Looks very strange huh? Well before I wrap this up, you will know exactly why.
In BJ, there is a feature called "taking a flier". This is where you can actually pay a fee to BJ, to have a candidate submitted to a position, even when a TA will not engage you on a position. Last month, I tried to get engaged on a Sr. Electrical Engineer position in Northampton, MA, however AMBER HEINLEIN (TA AT L3HARRIS) refused my engagement request. So, I "took a flier" and paid about $30.00 of my own funds to submit a highly qualified candidate. After submitting this candidate, I waited a week to see if there was any feedback. My messages were completely ignored. Then after about another week I tried messaging AMBER HEILEIN again via BJ. She responded "no interest, thanks!" I responded asking if there was any feedback on where this candidate fell short and never received a response to this day. I knew how good this candidate was for that role, so I became suspicious. I honestly did not think she even submitted the candidate to the hiring manager. I was looking through my linkedin.com contacts, and realized that I was connected to the person that appeared to be the Hiring Manager for that position and I was right. We were connected. So I sent over my candidate's information to him via linkedin.com, and he replied with interest. He responded that he had NOT seen that candidate's information before. So it was just as I thought, she had never even submitted him to the HM. All after I paid my own funds to submit the candidate. What recruiter in their right mind, is going to pay to submit a candidate, already knowing that the candidates' information will not even reach the Hiring Manager? I don't know any recruiters that stupid. However, I did not mention to the HM, that I had already submitted this candidate. The next day, I get an email from AMBER HEINLEIN, stating that I am to stop messaging the HM on linkedin.com immediately. However linkedin.com is a public forum, and I can communicate whoever I want, and they are free to communicate with me. Later that day, I get a call from Bountyjobs, as expected. The rep at BJ states that AMBER HEINLEIN is complaining that I am emailing her and that she wants all communication to go through BJ. However I NEVER emailed her, that was a lie. I never even responded to the email she sent me telling me to stop messaging the HM. It's funny, when I got the call from BJ, I asked the Rep at BJ, t produce an email that I sent to AMBER HEINLEIN and she couldn't. It;s also funny I asked her if AMBER HEINLEIN said anything else about why she was complaining and AMBER HEINLEIN mentioned nothing about the linkedin.com situation. I assume what happenedcis that the HM has to go through AMBER HEINLEIN to schedule candidates for interviews, and when he approached her about the candidate that she NEVER SUBMITTED TO HIM, AFTER I PAID TO HAVE HIM SUBMITTED, she got pissed. Which means that not only does Bountyjobs take recruiters' money to have candidates submitted and in many cases the candidates NEVER reach the hiring managers. They also are used to cover up these types of things that the TA's are doing. It's almost like extortion. They threaten to kick you off the site for basically doing your job as a recruiter. What is going on is that the higher ups in Talent Acquistion with the clients do not know, or do not care what theses reps are doing with these Bountyjobs logins. Or, the TALENT ACQUISITION REPS DO NOT WANT EMAILS FROM EXTERNAL, RECRUITERS, SO THAT THERE IS NO INFORMATION TRAIL ON HOW THE RECRUITING IS BEING HANDLED. Let's be honest here, if they were actually doing their jobs, they would not need external recruiting firms in the first place. But from situations like this, i can see why jobs are staying on client's job boards for extended periods of time. ALL IN ALL BOUNTYJOBS IS AN ORGANIZATION THAT HAS SOME VERY SHADY PRACTICES!! AND I AM CERTAIN I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO'S HAD THESE TYPES OF EXPERIENCES WITH THEM!…