CLIP - The Sex Test 4 Recruiters

I had two guests today. First, a short visit by Charles Krugel, the employment lawyer from Chicago.

My contention is that hiring for culture and hiring for diversity are diametrically opposed. It seems to me that HR people think that race and ethnicity determine your culture. They also think that hiring people from different cultures enhances a business.

When people hire for cultural fit, however, they want to hire people who share their culture.

So I asked Charles to come on and tell me if I am right and if people who hire for culture are going to end up breaking diversity laws. He said I was wrong because race and ethnicity don't determine culture. You can have a different skin colour or ethnic background from the majority and still share the same values.

My other guest, Marty Snyder, agreed. He said that class is the key factor. He said people feel more comfortable with other people from their own background but that middle class people will relate to eachother as members of the same group no matter what their race or ethnic background.

Marty Snyder is the CEO of PCRecruiter. Marty is a frustrated academic but I forced him to tone down the professorial routine and we had a good conversation.

I thought that his most interesting ideas were about sales. He claims that recruiting is sales and that a good sales person does not merely pass on information.

She creates a feeling of certainty in the candidate that this move this is a good thing. And this is a feeling that is not based solely on rational calculation. It's intuitive.

How does the sales person do it? Courage to make the approach seemed to be one factor. Another key element was empathy. But here's the interesting thing. Empathy is understanding the candidate's situation and a sales person can demonstrate empathy to some extent simply by appearing to be an authority in her field because this tells the candidate that she understands her situation.

Marty even offered to tell us how we can identify a good recruiter. It's the person who got laid a lot in college (LISTEN TO THE CLIPS HERE).

Mike Astringer agreed. He said that someone who isn't especially good looking can have much better luck with girls than other guys if he has the guts to make the approach.

Amy Ala objected to Marty's vulgarity so he said, okay, if you are hiring a sales rep in a group of Jehovah's Witnesses, you're going to go after the one who brings the most people to a meeting. Same thing.

It would have been nice to drill down a bit more and see what exactly gives the buyer the feeling of certainty but the general ideas of empathy and assertiveness were as far as we went.

Marty also had some other ideas that I dispute. He said that recruiters create jobs by marketing candidates. I don't think so. Not really. Amy said she had created a job that way but only because she knew the company was going to need someone like her candidate fairly soon.

Marty also says that recruiters know how to downplay or dismiss the stigma of unemployment better than other people. Again, not really; in fact, they have the same prejudices as everyone else.

One more: Marty says that recruiters have a greater ability to see potential in people. I guess he only knows recruiters I haven't run into. We didn't get to discuss all of the claims of this recruiter-booster so maybe I'll have him on again soon to blow them up.




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Views: 1600

Comment by Martin H.Snyder on April 11, 2013 at 9:03pm

For sales roles, we ask.  If our developers got laid a lot, we would probably be doing something wrong.....

Comment by Recruiting Animal on April 11, 2013 at 10:57pm

I think Gerry Crispin mistook Mike Astringer for me. But it's no matter, I'll say it again: I think that Marty made a good point.

And anyone who listens to more than the clip will see that the discussion of sex is part of a broader discussion about the role of authority, empathy and assertiveness in persuasion and the role of persuasion in sales.

Maybe it's too deep for the recruiting crowd.

Comment by Sandra McCartt on April 12, 2013 at 2:03am

Well good, the "little professor" and the "old fart" are having a whose is bigger discussion.  Not you Crispin, you wear a hat, hats are good, really good recruiters wear hats.  Marty, a nebbish who uses a dictionary to write a post is not believable.  You can't have it both ways.  Valentino, chill brother, all the sex talk is goofy quit throwing a fit.

Smart, personable people who listen, and know what they are doing attract other people who will listen to them, follow their suggestions and respect their advice and expertise.  People buy from people they know, believe are smart , know what they are doing and whom they feel listen to them.  No matter what it is one is selling.

A horn dog at any age or either gender is boring and probably operating out of a pit of narcissism.  Any discussion using sex as the aliteration of authority, assertivenss in persuasion and the role thereof in sales tends to bring to mind something more closely associated with the Marquis de Sade. 


Comment by Sandra McCartt on April 12, 2013 at 2:05am

It ain't deep but it is goofy in my antique opinion.

Comment by Recruiting Animal on April 12, 2013 at 7:32am

If a young woman goes to a bar looking to meet young men the guy that she picks to go home with - or see again - is not quite a horndog trying to grope someone without permission. He is someone trying to appeal to a person who has already expressed a potential interest just by being there.

Comment by Martin H.Snyder on April 12, 2013 at 9:05am

Not to mention 'passive candidates' Animal.

Sandra I choose my words carefully; the discussion also turned quite a bit on culture, and one's syntax and diction are big cultural markers, and I would prefer to associate myself with the people on the top of the heap when possible. 

The 'test' is not a litmus test; it's an indicator, among other indicators, that a person can identify and close deals. 

By the way, the Animal's talents are wasted on his little radio show: maybe its a personal thing, but I think he is an incredible radio host and Colbert-like in his comic speed and timing.... 


Comment by Amy Ala Miller on April 12, 2013 at 9:27am

"The 'test' is not a litmus test; it's an indicator, among other indicators, that a person can identify and close deals." 

How... intimate... *eye roll*

This whole conversation reminds me of a bunch of overweight, middle aged guys who peaked in college and spend their weekends living it up in their man-cave aka garage drinking warm beer and talking about all the "deals they closed" back in the day. In other words, my ex husband and his friends. None of which would be good recruiters. No one is saying persuasiveness and ability to approach / influence others isn't a critical skill for recruiters. When you start using something as PERSONAL as sex (intimacy, as Marty put it) then it just gets silly. If one of my sons said something so ridiculous as this I'd wash their mouths out with soap including the 21 yr old US Air Force Airman.

We all say goofy stuff out loud on the radio and print. I have. The fact that Marty is doubling and tripling down on this is what's really interesting.

Comment by Valentino Martinez on April 12, 2013 at 9:33am


From one old fart, to another old fart (and this includes Señor Crespin), it’s the GAS that keeps it real.  The day I chill is the day I’m fartless.  And there’s a lesson here for all you younger farts -- when you get a whiff of bullshit walking, call it a turd or look the other way and avoid life's drama.

The facts are:  Marty dealt it, or pinched one in this case on the Recruiting Animal Show. Darryl (on Twitter) & Amy smelled it and called it; and Animal is lost in the fecal mist.

Casual sexual encounters was introducted as a laudable part of a good recruiter's Modus operandi.

I disagree whether its used as metaphor or an audible and need Marty, Animal and Mike to try and make the case that there's value there because there is nothing goofy about aligning casual sex with what a professional recruiter does day in and day out.  I think we deserve better.

Comment by Will Thomson on April 12, 2013 at 9:53am

"Like" this discussion.  Missed the show, but listened to the playback. 

Comment by Recruiting Animal on April 12, 2013 at 10:16am

I find the term old fart offensive. (PS: Thanks Willy)


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