How do you handle from the client we don't share a salary range?

Here is my new dilemma so to speak. I am helping a law firm locate a candidate in IP with an undergrad in chemical engineering. The job order said 1 to 5 years. I talk to a great candidate with the required under grad. It would be a relocation for him but he seems interested. I ask him what his salary range is. After hanging up with him I call the client and leave a message for the recruiting coordinator with my presentation and salary range. I get an email back saying that range is out for them and oh by the way we want 2 to 4 years even though the job order says 1 to 5. I email back and ask very nicely since that salary range was out could she please share with me the range that they are looking for so that there are no disappointments down the road. The answer was no she could not but they were competitive with the market.

How do I handle this? I have had lots of thoughts going through my head and realized that I need to make about the law firm and not about I work on contingency. Something to the effect that I know the Partners are really busy and would hate to see them spend their time interviewing a candidate get excited about said candidate only to lose out because of salary. It would better knowing if you had a hirable candidate before everyone went through all the interviews and possible flying in to find out that his/her salary would not work.

Thanks. Any advice would be sincerely appreciated.

Theresa

Comment by Elise Reynolds on July 17, 2012 at 10:08am: Theresa, I think it is probably not an issue of they don't want to share the range with you. But rather they are unsure of the range themselves and just want to see what is out there.

This can be difficult because often a potential candidate will not want to get involved if you can't promise a higher salary than what they make already. So I always just talk around it, I say things like "this firm is open, they want the right person for the job and they pay competitivvely. What is your current salary?" Whenever I submit a candidate I always mention their current salary.

Comment by Jerry Albright on July 17, 2012 at 10:14am: But Elise - it doesn't seem to me that the firm doesn't have any salary paramaters. To me - it's as if they're telling Theresa that it's not any of her business and she doesn't need to know.

Now - if the firm is saying "Wow - we are open to suggestions here. Can you help us?" - that's a far cry from "no discussion".

Comment by Theresa Hunter on July 17, 2012 at 10:14am: Most law firms are not open when it comes to salary. It is getting better as most firms used to do what is called lock step meaning if you graduated in the class of 2008 this is what your salary is there was no discussion. I do have to admit small firms are a little better about salary discussion but their salaries most of the time are lower than a big firm so you have to be careful when you are recruiting someone from a big firm to a smaller one. I know I sound like yes but when it comes to this discussion I have been doing legal for 9 yrs and I never say never when it comes to Attorneys they can surprise you sometimes. Most of the time though the firms do have a range and will let you know when you have presented someone to high. I have to admit that all of my placements have resulted in big raises for my candidates. It is just this one that is a bugaboo.

Comment by Elise Reynolds on July 17, 2012 at 10:21am: I guess I am unfamiliar with recruiting for law firms. In my line of work I would not appreciate a guessing game. It sounds to me that maybe the firms want to keep the range confidential. They don't want competitors to know what they are paying.

Comment by Theresa Hunter on July 17, 2012 at 10:23am: Jerry you are correct. It is not a case of if we see the right candidate we are willing to take a look at his salary requirement. When I sent the email to the recruiting coordinator trying to explain my reason for needing a salary range she wrote back and said "I suppose that is a risk we take with every candidate because we don't provide the salary information at this stage." Like I said I have one more candidate that I would like to present and see what happens if it does not go well than I am using them for a source and move on.

Comment by Theresa Hunter on July 17, 2012 at 10:28am: When I first became a recruiter I had training on how to handle the client, candidate and to make phone calls. Everything went so smoothly in those videos. : ) When I first got into the legal practice area I followed the advice that I had been trained on many years ago. It worked I asked the law firm what are you looking to pay in a salary range and lo and behold they answered with.....a salary range. Now you ask and they I am sorry but I can not share this information with you. It is frustrating and I don't know what caused them to stop.

Comment by Shirley Ray on July 17, 2012 at 10:59am: Wow. I can't imagine working an opening without a salary range unless the client is saying they'll pay whatever it takes to get the right person. Even then, I throw out some numbers until we find their limit.

One of the primary advantages of working through a recruiter for both companies and candidates is our ability to help them find a middle ground on salary so they can both be happy. Closing the candidate low and the client high allows for that middle ground. But how do you do that when the client isn't utilizing your expertise?

I work in the HR space and have no knowledge of legal recruiting. But have you tried asking why they're unwilling to share the salary information? Perhaps if you knew their objection, you would have a better chance of overcoming it.

Comment by Theresa Hunter on July 17, 2012 at 12:25pm: I have asked and they say we just don't reveal salary ranges at the beginning of the process. I guess they don't mind wasting everyone's time my included by waiting until the end of the interview process to find out their salary and candidate salary do not match up.

Comment by Sandra McCartt on July 17, 2012 at 12:35pm: Lol, law firms are owned and operated by lawyers. Lawyers would rather cut their throat with a dull knife than give anybody much information about anything before they have information from the other side. If you are able to speak with a hiring partner sometimes you can "mediate" a salary. The other problem you can have when working with law firms is that the people who work for lawyers are conditioned on pain of death and torture to keep everything confidential. If this hiring coordinator has been told that no salary range is to be released she will be sure she is not the one who gets the axe if a candidate looks up during an interview and says they were told the salary range would be X.

At this point you know what they think is too high. So go lower. Lawyers know how lawyers think so tell your candidate that the firm has turned down paying x for five years expr. That lets your candidate know what the playing field looks like.

If you send a candidate with 4 years and they say he doesn't have enough experience to pay what he is asking then you know they may not up to speed on ranges for what they want. It may take a few cndidates before they either come up on money or down on experience.

The reason a lot of firms, particularly the small firms will not give a range is they do not want the info out there with other lawyers as to what their firm pays but they want that info themselves before they decide what they are going to do.

Working with lawyers is a case study in working blind between two parties who negotiate for a living and keep everything confidential. Fun if you want to play but makes folks like Jerry crazy. :)

My best friend of 30 years is a Litigator, she refuses to tell me what she pays her paralegal and I placed the paralegal with my pal 10 years ago.

Comment by Theresa Hunter on July 17, 2012 at 12:49pm: Yes law firms are a case study in patience--which I don't have much of these days. I don't share the salary range with candidates. I ask them what they are making before bonus and any other perks. If they are in the range I say this could be a nice raise for you and that is it. I don't give numbers. I learned that lesson the hard way. I was a new recruiter and gave the candidate the range i.e it is 45 to 55. Well when the offer came down and it was 49K the candidate said I thought you said it was 55K. I said no I told you the range was between 45 and 55. The candidate refused to take the job unless she received the 55K. I got my butt chewed out for giving the range in the first place, my boss said candidates never hear the low end always the high end and from then on I never give the range in numbers. The small firms are actually more willing to share salary range than the big firms. When interviewing candidates I always ask them what compensation is desired and than say if the firm comes back with 165 and the candidate has told me 170 is desired do you want me to turn it down and on and on until the candidate says I will not take anything lower than 158. Now I have my low number for the candidate. Just wish the firms were that easy. Oh well that is why they are lawyers and I am not.

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