Collections advice for a candidate heist

Quick synopsis:

A longstanding client of ours sought help with a Head of Sales role.  My usual contact, the VP HR was especially vague about the role and especially unreliable in communicating anything. 


No big deal, we know their business pretty well and were able to draft a job req, source a strong round of talent, and put a few good candidates forward.  She interviewed candidates and dismissed each quickly and with no concrete substantiation.  No big deal. Onto the next round.

Then she fell out of touch entirely with candidates in process, so it became apparent that something was wrong.  As it turned out, she had been recruited by another company and was on her way out when we began talking about the Head of Sales position.  She sandbagged our interviews and we later learned that she took one of our candidates with her to the new gig.

I'm not exactly sure what grounds, if any, I stand on. Our fee agreement doesn't include language covering this scenario.  Anyone taken action on a similar heist?

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Permalink Reply by Russ Recruits on May 10, 2012 at 12:11pm

You agreed T&C's with her company - not her.

However, if you had a clause for 3rd party introductions (IE she introduced your candidate to anouther employer, as a result of introducing them to her) you may still find you can bill the original client, but dont expect them to use you again.

Personally, tell client whats happened, say its no big thing - "your relationship is more to me in the long term" etc etc. (if its a good client this will mean a lot to them)

Then call the thief who did this and tell them what a low life weezel they are & repeat same process for the candidate who after all has shafted you as much - you'll feel better for it at least.

 

Permalink Reply by Sandra McCartt on May 10, 2012 at 2:00pm
I would call your runway bride, congratulate her on her new position, tell her how much you look forward to working with her at the new company, what is their policy about working with recruiters, what does it look like to her the immediate needs will be for her to make her mark bringing in top people, blah, blah. She knows what she did so I would act like at first I didn't know and see if she brings it up. My guess is that she won't. I would see if she would be chatty and tell me she was going to need some help, might need a (whatever)pretty quickly. See if she will cover her butt by giving you a listing or asking you to send her a fee schedule so she can get you signed up as a vendor. If she is friendly, encouraging and you can pick up a new client don't mention the one she put in her pocket just yet. Take the listing or send her the information see if you get a listing in the next week or 30 days. If you do get it going then out of the blue call her and say you just found out she hd hired old John that you sent her previously so you assume she will give you credit for placing him, wow that's great thanks so much. See how that plays. If she fesses up but says she can't get you a fee on him,I would say, well since you have given us some new business I guess we can consider that one a new job gift.

If she is cold, dodges your call, tells you she has to use recruiters already approved or makes it clear that she wants you to go away,ask her, "what do we need to do about billing for John?". "He indicated that you called him about a job with your new company after we sent him to you and you interviewed him at your old company.". "do I send the statement to you or should it go to the VP of Sales?". If she tells you that he had applied to the new company on his own or was sent by another recruiter, you are screwed. If your candidate has told you that she called him, he never heard of the company until she called him. I would tell her he has told a different story so could we get everybody on a conference call and figure this out. Or would she mind documenting his date of application for you or date the other recruiter submitted him.

If she did what you think she did. Shuts you down, gets testy. Say something like, "this is really confusing maybe I better check with John again to be sure I understood him. Then pick up the phone call the vp of sales who hired the guy. Tell him this is a really unusual situation, explain what happened, you are not trying to cause anyone any problems but being in sales he should understand what it would feel like if somebody took some of his inventory with them and gave it to a new employer so would he consider making it right and accepting your invoice for placing John with his company. I would take an attitude that these things happen obviously she wanted her new employer to have a top candidate, old John loved it, the vp loved old John and hired him so if you could just get paid for your inventory, everybody would be happy. He will tell you to let him check on it if he has any sense at all. Be gracious, thank him for his help and wait to see what happens. You may not get paid but he will know and she will know that he knows. At best you might get paid, at worst if the vp has any integrity hr girl has a cloud on her right off the bat.

Then call the old company see if you can replace her and mention to whoever you talk to what she did and you are trying to figure out if the liability for the fee belongs to her personally, the company you submitted him to or her new company who ended up hiring him when she took proprietary information with her when she left. " Man, is this an interesting one or what?"

You can at least have fun stirring up a hornet's nest, give everybody something to think about and you might accidentally end up with a new client and/ or getting paid A fun hand to play, my thinks.
Permalink Reply by Amber on May 10, 2012 at 2:15pm

Russ, your answer would feel good at the moment. But, as usual, Sandra took most of what I was thinking and said it perfectly!

p.s. Sandra - your "instructions" are great! Hope Jeremy keeps us updated on the situation.

 

Permalink Reply by Jeremy Spring on May 10, 2012 at 3:03pm

Thanks guys.  I won't be sending a bill to existing client.  Not the fight I want to fight.  Sandra, your strategy is much more pragmatic than I've come to expect from you.  I was more expecting you to respond with something involving shotguns and antifreeze.

Sound advice yall. Thanks again.

Permalink Reply by Sandra McCartt on May 10, 2012 at 7:22pm

@Jeremy, when it comes to idiots i am big on shotguns and antifreeze.  When it comes to clients and money i am so pragmatic i sound like a negotiator for world wars.  One never blows up the camp if one ever wants to go that way again :)

Permalink Reply by Russ Recruits on May 11, 2012 at 5:33am

The last part of my reply was more of a feel good factor than reality.

The Shot Gun and Anti freeze methods are my wish though....

But in seriousness, it may be a cultural thing, this happens in the UK a lot. A client that does not try and shaft you is rare, and the split fee community virtually dead due to the paraniod view of each other.

Sandras advice is of course the correct way - but for me I dont have the time, simply due to it happening so often.  As long as the original client knows whats happened, apriciates I am walking away on this occasion to live anouther day then the most important thing to me, the relationship with the client, is secured.

"One never blows up the camp if one ever wants to go that way again" - @Sandra - spot on, and applies to the individual who did this in the first place as well methinks...

Does the US TPR market have contracts between you and the candidate....? I have a clause in mine that would prevent it, though its rare for us to actually use it.

 

Permalink Reply by Jerry Albright on May 11, 2012 at 10:29am

I would never, EVER consider doing what Sandra suggests here. 


The first problem here was in recruiting for a manager that would not take your calls, describe the position or otherwise participate with you in any way.  Are you THAT starved for clients right now? 

"She interviewed candidates and dismissed each quickly and with no concrete substantiation.  No big deal. Onto the next round."  /strong>I sure wish you were making this part up Jeremy but it appears not.  So - you just keep pouring in resume upon resume with no clear understanding of where the last candidate missed?  Is this some sort of recruiting game of pin the tail on the donkey?  Man - this stuff just fumes me.  Really - it does.

Client:  He's not a fit.  Send more.

You:  Why?

Client: None of your business.  Just send more.

You: OK.

Client: Not a fit either. Send more.

You: Why?

Client: Stop asking. None of your business.  Just send more.

You: OK

You should not have been involved in this to begin with.  Sorry to seem so harsh here - but these are examples of recruiters clearly not setting a minimum expectation of service/relationship/cooperation.

She is under no agreement whatsoever to not hire that guy.  Your agreement (though I'm not

Permalink Reply by Christopher Perez on May 11, 2012 at 10:35am

Here's my story about getting screwed, with a satisfying karmic twist toward the end (which, of course, is the optimal time for karma to pop up and wink at you as she dope-slaps your richly deserving adversary). Sorry it's lengthy but I hope you find it enjoyable and maybe even instructive:

A guy I've placed two times winds up at a new firm (not my placement) and brings me into his new organization for a tough medical director search. Great! The relationship investment is paying off. The search goes on for nearly a year and I send them some great candidates who for various reasons don't get offers. I finally land a person who had come highly recommended early in the sourcing process, but who had timing issues. She wows them, accepts their offer (a nice base salary bump for her), and gets rolling.

As a result of my good work I get positive press within the organization. Soon, another division invites me to help them find a science writer PDQ. Fate smiles on me and I bat .1000 on this one-- submit a single great candidate and he accepts an offer one month to the day from my first phone call with the client. The client comes in a bit shy of my guy's base salary expectation and I'm even able to persuade them not to nickel and dime; he gets his full asking price. Smiles all around.

Several weeks down the road, I get a marketing email from the client (I subscribe to stuff like this as a way to stay informed on my clients' businesses). It's actually from the 2nd division I worked with (the science writer job), and it's promoting a new batch of scientific content they've just posted to their new website. What to my wandering eyes should appear but a byline on one of the articles…and it's the name of one of the candidates I had submitted for the medical director search (the first one I did for this company). Realizing that this falls squarely within the language of my agreement (fee owed "if a candidate we refer to you enters into a service relationship with you or your affiliate"), I contact the guy who brought me into the organization to calmly gather some intel. Always better to keep your powder dry at first. I find that they've engaged my person as a freelancer for some project work.

He understandably bumps me up to his boss, the one who signed my agreement. I feel like I'm on firm ground as I have a great fact set, I have a good relationship with this guy, and it's entirely possible that he is not aware of this situation since it happened in the other division. My expectation is that he'll want to make it right. Still, my antennae are fully extended for this call.

He is pretty frosty as I lay things out for him. I'm assertive but polite and professional during the call. He begins making gratuitous assertions: "You've done some good business with our company…how you pursue this is up to you." I can tell I'm up against a blunt instrument. He keeps making this statement, so I conclude that he's trying to say that I should be grateful and let this one slide. His primitive debating skills finally get under my skin (my mistake). I ask, are you saying I should be expected to give away my work product just because I've successfully provided value to a client in the past? He chooses this opening for some selective outrage, saying he's insulted that I think he wants a freebie. I tell him I'm just trying to figure out his point by rephrasing a comment he's made several times during our conversation. By this point in the call, I clearly know the personality type I'm dealing with: a classic blustering hothead who lashes out when he finds himself boxed in by his own words. We end the call with him saying he'll followup with the other division.

I send him an email thanking him for hearing me out, alluding to the goodwill that's been generated over the last year, and express my confidence that we'll be able to arrive at a quick and fair resolution. His reply states that yes, I have brought value and that my call was very professional until I accused him of expecting a freebie. He says it's safe to say they won't be using my services again. I reply asking him if he's kidding and just messing with me. I then contact the hiring manager from the second division by phone and get the clear sense that Hothead has already begun poisoning the well. Hothead then sends me another email, indignantly offering to pay my percentage on the freelancer out of his own pocket (it's a few hundred $$). In the interim, I have had collegial conversations with the 2nd hiring manager and she tells me (credibly, IMO) that HER boss went to school with the freelancer and so while it may not look great from the surface, no underhanded antics were intended. Still believing I have a case, I make a business decision to move on and preserve goodwill with her. I tell Hothead to keep his money as I consider the matter closed. I tell him that it's too bad that things went off the rails but I remain interested in fixing the relationship. Realistically I figure this will never happen. Hotheads never admit fault.

Enter karma.

Last week I got a call informing me that the medical director I placed under Hothead had resigned. And yes, it was 3 weeks AFTER the conclusion of her guarantee period. Karma, you sweet thing, you. Hothead emails me and asks for a copy of our agreement and a chat. During that call he says "You've probably heard that our medical director resigned. You're probably aware that it was after the guarantee period…" I interrupt him "Yes, I am very aware of that." <pissed off pause on his end>. He then asks me if I represented her for her new job. I have to admit I never saw that question coming, but my answer is easy and immediate. "No, I did not. In fact, my agreement with you protects you from that. That's not how I conduct business." (If I were him, I would have flown off the handle in indignant outrage, but I don't give others the power to insult me. Loutish statements reflect poorly on the people who make them, not their targets.)

Incredibly, Hothead then tells me that he has an opening that needs to be filled (thank you, Captain Obvious). He says that he's "spoken with about 5 other recruiters" about how they'd handle a drop off just after the guarantee period. Wait for it-- He says that they would all try to work with their client in that situation. He then asks if I will discount my fee as a condition of working on this new assignment. I say that I can't speak for what other recruiters would do (he snappily replies "Well, I can!") and remind him that I extended a discount before the first project. I tell him I see no business rationale for devaluing my work under these circumstances; if anything, this is now a much tougher search than it was before. He then poses it as an ultimatum: "So you won't offer a discount?" "No thank you, I won't be able to do that." Then I'm told once again that they won't be using my services. I resist the urge to laugh and tell him that I'm no worse off than I was before the call began! Can any of you imagine the insanity of taking another search project from this person?

What did I learn from this experience? Frankly, not much. I won't be changing my business practices just because of a fluky situation with an irrational client. Takes all kinds. Notwithstanding the freelancer issue, my agreement was strong and protected the client and myself in key areas. I was actually pleased with myself for being able to move on after this happened, although it does feel good to share/vent it with colleagues. Thanks for listening!   --Chris

Permalink Reply by Jerry Albright on May 11, 2012 at 10:45am

Chris - good one!  I love all the different stories we collect in this business over the years.  Thanks.

Permalink Reply by Jeremy Spring on May 11, 2012 at 10:47am

whoa whoa whoa.  Jerry, get yourself a Xanax cocktail and take 'er easy, hot shot.  I described my relationship with this client in fewer words than you described my relationship with this client. Obviously, there are aspects of that relationship that don't fit into a 75 word discussion thread.   I didn't ask for implications about the quality of my work.    I'm probably breaking forum rules by saying it but frankly, I think you read like a pretentious asshole.

Permalink Reply by Jerry Albright on May 11, 2012 at 10:56am

Jeremy - I may very well be an ___hole, but pretentious?  Not me. 

I was only commenting on your description of service.  You kept sending candidates to a client that wouldn't give you concrete "rule out" feedback.  This happened after you started working on a job order your client wouldn't help you put together......


Did I read that wrong?

Permalink Reply by Jeremy Spring on May 11, 2012 at 11:00am

Nice read, Chris.  You should enter it on the blog, as it deserves better visibility.  Thanks for sharing.

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