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Permalink Reply by Edward Caliguiri on January 29, 2009 at 1:55pm

From a business perspective I don't know why a headhunter would want to charge candidates a fee under any circumstances. That's a totally different business that what we do. I think it would make more sense to help those unemployed people -- where it makes sense for your own business, or out of compassion. I firmly believe that if you do the right thing it will come back to you in positive ways. Maybe the person that you help by, let's say, referring them to a company that you know is hiring but will not pay a fee will one day refer a great candidate that you can place with a client who is paying a fee. Or, they might be in a position later on to use your services to hire someone to work for them.

In the long run we are judged by how we treat people. Charging a fee to an unemployed person to help them find a job will not ever make you look good.

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Permalink Reply by Careers In Holland on January 29, 2009 at 1:55pm

Granted, I'm from The Neherlands so my answer might not be very useful to you. However, just to let you know the views on the other side of the ocean: in Holland, as in most European countries, this is not only considered unethical (or immoral even), but it's flat out illegal. You risk a hefty fine if caught using these kind of methods, and your good name (if you had any) is down the drain.

Very tempting to make this kind of U-turn in this economic climate, however on the long run it's a dead end I think. Besides, if you know so well what company/hiring manager might be interested in someone's CV, then you should also be able to introduce a candidate and charge the company a fee in case of a match. Even in todays economic circumstances. I mean, isn't that what we're supposed to be good at....

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Permalink Reply by Careers In Holland on January 29, 2009 at 1:57pm

Hi Kevin, check out SimplyHired or Oodle, kind of the same principle as Indeed.

Kevin Panet said:

Now, just out of curiosity, if you can’t help the people who are contacting you because it is not your specialty, where do you tell them to go?

I’ll always accept a resume for the data base and try to keep my eyes and ears open. However, lately, I’ve been sending people to www.Indeed.com because it pulls job postings from multiple sites, from the larger job boards to many smaller more obscure sites. I’ve never seen anything like it. Does anyone know of similar or better sites? Where do you tell people to go (in a kind and positive direction)?

-Kevin

P.S. I agree that it is loathsome to prey upon those without jobs. I must have received a dozen of those vulture calls after I was laid off in '06 when the company shut down. Most of them had the nerve in their initial v-mails to sound like legitimate recruiters with positions in hand.

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Permalink Reply by Samson on January 29, 2009 at 2:26pm

Is it a promise or a contract when someone receives money to achieve a specified result?

The real issue we're dealing with here is not unrealistic promises, it's dishonesty. The "promises" are stated very carefully to create the sense that the result of paying money to the "recruiting agency" is a job. This practice is built on the same psychological model as the "work from home" or Amway schemes—Give us money and we'll give you the opportunity to succeed.

This kind of practice is doubly damnable in a recession.

Gerry Crispin said:

No. Only if the promise doesn't match the result. Unfortunately a large segment of those charging unemployed folks are ripping them off by making promses that are unrealistic.

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Permalink Reply by Jerry Albright on January 29, 2009 at 2:32pm

I've made a suggetiong/offer to this company in this new thread......

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Permalink Reply by Jack Roth on January 29, 2009 at 3:04pm

I read about Ricks concept in Crains and thought it was a good idea. Job seekers are looking for an edge and many positions are simply not available to headhunters or agencies as these companies cant pay our fees right now. I see this as a career service because thats what it is.

1.) An experienced recruiter reviews the resume.

2.) Skill sets are matched with companies that are actively recruiting in the job seeker’s area.

3.) Unemployed hopefuls are sent the name and direct contact information of the decision makers, avoiding the gatekeeper in the process.

This is better then theladders and based on feedback from candidates who have used on topjobleads, a good offering. Good luck Rick and I hope it works out for you and you can recoup the 30K you invested and make some money too. You're helping lots of folks and its not expensive to them at all.

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Permalink Reply by Debra A. Jamieson on January 29, 2009 at 3:59pm

Years ago when I started in this business; you could chage candidates or companies for fees. You could charge all, half or get companies to pay fee and payroll deduct fee from candidate and sometimes even pay them back their monies after they worked for 6 months to a year. I have to admit, it was great! Candidates usually did not take the position without really wanting it so they were very serious. You also could charge them if they left for another position within your guarantee period. This was all legal and actually governed by our state of PA.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Probstein on January 29, 2009 at 4:09pm

hi gerry
thanks for sharing
you can watch this video to best understand how Top Job Leads ( www.TopJobLeads.com ) works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c0fRDCJ-3Y

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Permalink Reply by Jerry Albright on January 29, 2009 at 4:13pm

Hi Rick. Thanks for the link again.

I'm not really looking to learn how it works on the applicant pay for info side - I am asking about 500 or 1000 or 2000 of these qualified leads for my agency. If they would be valuable in the hands of an unskilled sales person such as an accountant or an engineer - they would be even more so in the hands of a solid recruiter.......

Rick Probstein said:

hi gerry
thanks for sharing
you can watch this video to best understand how Top Job Leads ( www.TopJobLeads.com ) works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c0fRDCJ-3Y

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Permalink Reply by Gino Conti on January 29, 2009 at 4:20pm

I'm not a terribly big fan of this idea either, but that isn't what Rick/Jack is proposing...

His company is going to sell a lead or series of them to people. They are paying money before they even have an interview, much less the job. You only charged people who got hired. He is charging people for information that could end up netting them nothing save for an annoyed hiring manager.

Debra A. Jamieson said:

Years ago when I started in this business; you could chage candidates or companies for fees. You could charge all, half or get companies to pay fee and payroll deduct fee from candidate and sometimes even pay them back their monies after they worked for 6 months to a year. I have to admit, it was great! Candidates usually did not take the position without really wanting it so they were very serious. You also could charge them if they left for another position within your guarantee period. This was all legal and actually governed by our state of PA.

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Permalink Reply by Ron McManmon on January 29, 2009 at 5:16pm

I am going to unset the apple cart based on what I have read but before I do please read the following email to one of my coaches (I have changed the names to protect the innocent:):

Dear Job Coach,

I want to thank you for helping me find my next job.

With 22 years in my past profession, and less than 4 years in my
new career, I was at a loss for how to sell myself. The economy
has been worse with each passing month since I was laid off in
October, 2008, and I knew I would be competing against people
with more experience.

Mary was my job coach and from our first email all the way
through to negotiating the pay with my new employer. She gave me
useful advice, but most importantly Tina listened carefully.

The new resume format effectively communicated my abilities,
caught the attention of employers, and resulted in job interviews.
Once in the interview, I used the S.T.A.R. concept to clearly
illustrate my customer service and communication skills. In the
end, I was the top candidate for two jurisdictions, and had two
excellent job offers.

The job coaching gave me the tools I needed to sell myself.

Thank you for the excellent service, support and friendship.

Sincerely,
Joe the Jobseeker

Is it unethical for ExecuNet to take money from a job seeker or perhaps someone who spends countless hours helping others? Bottom line is I have been recruiting AND coaching people for a very long time and in my humble opinion Executive Recruiters have a wealth of information to bring to the plate - and frankly we blow the Outplacement industry out of the water with our knowledge. We don't help others in this way simply because that is not how we get paid and some don't help others because they won't get a commission (and this is a shame). If I were looking for a job (and knock on wood I am actually hiring) I would be pleased to PAY a head hunter to help me out, the caveat being if they put a full court press behind the effort. If our talents are leveraged in the right way and if recruiters understood the importance of having and end to end solution, we could be an awesome force...

One last point (if there is any such thing with me), May 2001 I was the top billing recruiter at MRI and the reason I hit this stat was; I helped a Senior Manager find a job and there wasn't anything in it for me but a relationship. He later called me back with a huge hiring initiative and I have not looked back.

NOW, I help people with their careers and enjoy my work far better than I did when I was recruiting exclusively and I am one of the most ethical people on this planet, period!.

I hope I have not offended anyone with my strong opinion but I have a great deal of experience on this subject and always enjoy a good debate.

Cheers Ron

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Permalink Reply by Ross Clennett on January 30, 2009 at 1:24am

It's illegal here in Australia to charge a person a fee for an employment service. Career consultants can charge a candidate a coaching fee but they cannot act as a recruiter without a license.

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