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Permalink Reply by Chris Grove on February 2, 2012 at 12:32pm

I'm not arguing you can, to use the expression polish a turd.  You can though make average candidates better and in some cases place someone dreadful.  One of the worst candidates I've ever met and by far the worst interviewer I've ever met, I placed within 48 hours of meeting.  He had a niche skillset a client needed and irrespective of his personal issues he got the job, sometimes skills are more important.  Yes mostly that's not true and there's no point in going after the poorer end of the market but sometimes if you literally can't find anyone else for those annoying roles everyone's given up on you can get those average/poor candidates into the role.

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Permalink Reply by Sandra McCartt on February 2, 2012 at 12:33pm

I think recruiters have gotten so bunched up with trying to be consultants that they have lost sight of what we are paid to do. We are hunters. It's my take that we are not paid to find something half flawed , clean it up, and try to make it look like or sound like something it is not. My screening includes a question to myself. Could I stand to have this person in my office on a daily basis? I know my client, could he stand to have this person on his team, reporting to him on a daily basis?

We work with or should be working with adults. They come in all favors. I can't make vanilla out of pistachio nut nor can I teach an adult how to act, dress, think or handle their job on a long term basis. I can make them aware of what my client expects, want and needs. My job is to evaluate them and recommend the ones who fit those criteria not monkey with the machinery trying to add or subtract spare parts to make them fit. If they are adult enough to ask questions, listen to answers and take advantage of what I know that they don't then I have done my job.

We can sometimes shove a round peg in a Square hole but when we do nobody is happy very long.

I am not a "personnel consultant", I am a recruiter I find the fit, I don't make it out of spare parts.

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Permalink Reply by Paul S. Gumbinner on February 2, 2012 at 12:45pm

Right on Sandra!  I was thinking of how to write what you wrote.  If I like a candidate and think that they talked too much out of nervousness, I can try to determine the cause of the nerves and deal with it. If it is a character flaw, I am not interested.  If I think they can be helped I will try to do so.  But I am not a coach nor am I really a friend. My point of view is that we are paid by our clients to find them people who match specific attributes; nothing more or less.  However, not to insult anyone, but too many recruiters merely use a resume as a template and if the candidate matches the job specs, they will send flawed people on the chance they will get placed.  Not my philosophy, however.  Good for you.

Sandra McCartt said:

I think recruiters have gotten so bunched up with trying to be consultants that they have lost sight of what we are paid to do. We are hunters. It's my take that we are not paid to find something half flawed , clean it up, and try to make it look like or sound like something it is not. My screening includes a question to myself. Could I stand to have this person in my office on a daily basis? I know my client, could he stand to have this person on his team, reporting to him on a daily basis?

We work with or should be working with adults. They come in all favors. I can't make vanilla out of pistachio nut nor can I teach an adult how to act, dress, think or handle their job on a long term basis. I can make them aware of what my client expects, want and needs. My job is to evaluate them and recommend the ones who fit those criteria not monkey with the machinery trying to add or subtract spare parts to make them fit. If they are adult enough to ask questions, listen to answers and take advantage of what I know that they don't then I have done my job.

We can sometimes shove a round peg in a Square hole but when we do nobody is happy very long.

I am not a "personnel consultant", I am a recruiter I find the fit, I don't make it out of spare parts.

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Permalink Reply by Bill Schultz on February 2, 2012 at 1:24pm

Yup...I sy 2 things : 1)Be brief - You can always expand on something if asked.

2) "tighten up" your reasons for leaving your last job.  

Otherwise, be yourself, that's who they're hiring (or not hiring),

Jerry Albright said:

Just to clarify my thought here - someone who talks entirely too much is going to be someone who talks entirely too much 5 minutes into the interview when everything you've "consulted" on with them is pretty much out the window.

Over the years there are candidates who stick out as this very type.  I remember most of them.  I never placed any of them.

#Move #On

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Permalink Reply by Sandra McCartt on February 2, 2012 at 3:34pm

The flip side of this is the "consultant" who talks too much.  i have seen more recruiters or wanna be consultants shoot themselves in the foot, drive clients and candidates crazy rapping their shit trying to do consultative coaching than i have candidates who talk too much. 

If recruiters would shut their mouths and give their ears a chance too we would be much more appreciated.  Find out what is needed, go find it and if we can't report back as to why and what needs to happen, with walking examples in the event that the money is too low for the reqs.  Find the candidate who fits the requirements, take it back and drop it at the feet of the client.  If he says that's great but he can't afford it.  There is one out there someplace that has almost all the requirements and will take less.

 

A good recruiter is like a good bird dog.  Good bird dogs go get the birds, they know the difference between a bird and a rabbit.  If they run in circles, pee on fence posts, lap out of puddles and bark at the moon they are probably a consultant and need to be sent to the animal shelter.  Your client is looking for a good bird dog when he sends  you on the hunt.  If he wanted a poodle that would jump around, yap and do tricks while looking cute and darling he'd ask his kid to recruit. If recruiters act like yapping poodles they don't get to hunt much.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Cora Mae Lengeman on February 6, 2012 at 9:49am

I have run into this several times in 22 years; candidates who think they are so great that you really want to hear their life story - including the business they started in middle school. Also those that just plain talk too much – over answer the question – give too much detail in their answers. I tend to be the latter and have to keep myself in-check so I don’t talk too much and monopolize the conversation. I have to remember to ask the question and shut up.

When I ask a question and find that they are not near to getting around to answering by 30 seconds, I interrupt them and tell them to please answer the question directly as I have other interviews lined up and I am interested in the facts of their career not all the meanderings.  I have never placed anyone in the talk too much catagory - sent a couple to interview -my mistake.

As an aside, I once had two candidates interview for a CFO position with the President of the company. Candidate #1 answered each question in such detail – the interview took over two hour. Candidate #2 answered each question succinctly and his interview lasted 35 minutes. Both were asked the exact same 5 questions. Candidate #2 is still the CFO, having added CEO since, 10 years later and has more than doubled the size of the company.

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Permalink Reply by Cora Mae Lengeman on February 6, 2012 at 9:54am

Well said Sandra.  I suffer from the "talk too much" and have often bit my cheeks to keep my mouth shut or had an agenda in front of me with the key points I want to get across and questions i want to ask - then make sure I adhere to it.  I learn more from my listening and find that I am appreciated more for the questions I ask then for the lloooooonnnnng answers I gave when I started out.  
 
Sandra McCartt said:

The flip side of this is the "consultant" who talks too much.  i have seen more recruiters or wanna be consultants shoot themselves in the foot, drive clients and candidates crazy rapping their shit trying to do consultative coaching than i have candidates who talk too much. 

If recruiters would shut their mouths and give their ears a chance too we would be much more appreciated.  Find out what is needed, go find it and if we can't report back as to why and what needs to happen, with walking examples in the event that the money is too low for the reqs.  Find the candidate who fits the requirements, take it back and drop it at the feet of the client.  If he says that's great but he can't afford it.  There is one out there someplace that has almost all the requirements and will take less.

 

A good recruiter is like a good bird dog.  Good bird dogs go get the birds, they know the difference between a bird and a rabbit.  If they run in circles, pee on fence posts, lap out of puddles and bark at the moon they are probably a consultant and need to be sent to the animal shelter.  Your client is looking for a good bird dog when he sends  you on the hunt.  If he wanted a poodle that would jump around, yap and do tricks while looking cute and darling he'd ask his kid to recruit. If recruiters act like yapping poodles they don't get to hunt much.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Cora Mae Lengeman on February 6, 2012 at 10:02am

Right on Jerry!  It is amazing that these people will get hire eventually.  Some recruiter that thinks their a consultant will tell them what to say and how to say it and they'll get hired and then let go abouit a year later if the company can stand them for that long.
 
Jerry Albright said:

For me it's pretty simple.  I realized long ago that my 15 minute - or even 1/2 hour "tips from a professional" with some blabbermouth is only going to be a waste of 15 (or 30) minutes of my time.

I'm not placing that guy.  Why hide from the fact that, for the most part, yappy, blow-hard candidates don't get hired.  They bore you.  They bore your client.  They bore their spouses.  The bore their team mates.

The DON"T GET HIRED.

So rather than try to fix the flat tire - you're better off to realize you aren't going to score with this guy and spend your time finding the right guy.

This isn't social work people.  You aren't paid to overhaul personalities that have been derailed for decades.   Besides - you can't even do it if you WERE paid to.....

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