Search Results - Trading Common

Topic: Meet Kay Kelison, Artist, Senior Sourcer, Speaker, Veteran and Proud Mother: nd Publisher Solutions Group (APS). She is a renown internet sourcer with varied background in the IT, Wireless, and Financial Industries. In her day to day at one of the most prestigious software development companies in the world, Kay is often sourcing prospects for lead Developers, Engineers, Testers, Security, System Admins, Business System Analyst, Project Managers, Program Managers, Media, Marketing, Search, Research, Recruiting, Sourcing, Online Media, On-line Networking, Blogger, and Social Media, etc I had the unique pleasure of getting to know Kay in Atlanta last September at Shally's BBQ mixer on his deck and was immediately charmed by her genuine warmth, humility, and passion for her work and family life. Nearly every speaker for Sourcecon paid a visit for a chance to mingle, talk shop and to taste some of the best ribs and brats in town - but my conversations struck me as memorable, notwithstanding it my first opportunity to finally meet Kay after hearing so much praise within common circles. She has this winning smile that speaks volumes about her ability to connect instantaneously on a human level that I found endearing. I made a friend, but likewise I found someone I grew to admire over the course of that evening. I am fortunate to have the opportunity to share her background with Recruitingblogs today. Q &A with Kay Kellison Six Degrees: Tell us of your home world. Kay: I have a partner named Mary Cay Kelison and we have been together for 18 years, She is my soul-mate and an awesome Sr. Technical Recruiter. When we met, I was a bartender studying art and she was a waitress while studying dance/linguistics/french. Our life has been blessed with two boys. They have captured our hearts and add their own imprints in our world. Deacon Blue Kelison leads the charge at three years old. Chase Orion Kelison, age one, challenges Deacon as well as keeps him grounded. Besides my partner, my boys are the best thing that has ever happened to me. We have a dog name Jaxx Magee (named after street-fighter) and a cat that thinks shes dog, her name is Colly Magum. I was in the Navy for 6 years, traveled most of asia. Lived in Hawaii for those 6 years, honorable discharged in 1989 to go to art school. I have saved about 4 people’s lives , 2 dogs, and one cat. As an artist I have donated and sold my paintings around Seattle and on-line. I also make jewelry as a glass artist. I have donated time and art for the AIDS Foundation and Cancer Foundation which are very dear to my heart since I have lost a lot in my life to both diseases. I was brought up treating people that way I want to be treated and that when you see a stranger who is new to the area, or lost or need help. I without any hesitation will invite them to my home; especially around the holidays, I don’t like knowing someone is alone on the holidays. I also, will take the leftovers and we will hand out food to those on the street around our areas during the holidays. Six Degrees: How many years have you been in the staffing industry? Kay: Having ten years of experience, I have 10 years of strictly research, name generation. I don’t consider myself as a recruiter; I am a researcher who partners with recruiters. I also train and educate recruiters on all that is being offered and help them improve their knowledge of the forever changing web 2.0 generation. My partner, and I are both in the industry. Her specialty is corporate recruiting and strategy with a focus on international. My role is strictly internet research, training, and establishing parameters of communication within an organization. Six Degrees: How did you get started as a recruiter? Kay: I am a Researcher/Trainer with AIRS Certification CIR, ACIR and I have been in the Recruiting Industry for 10+ years. I have made a career of Internet Research. As a Senior Internet Researcher and Trainer, I liken myself as a Sherlock Holmes of the Internet. I have great passion for the Internet and its unfathomable depths and unlimited potential. I believe in the hunt and don’t believe in stopping until I have found what I am looking for. I make strategic sourcing sense to my clients. With the demands of finding outstanding talent and keeping our internal customers happy, I form strong partnerships with Recruiters, working with them to create strategic plans and execute them so that clients are satisfied with the team’s efforts and results. I have had the pleasure of working with some amazing companies: Saltmine, Amazon, Microsoft –Ad Center as well as Microsoft India, Wachovia, T-Mobile…. At the present time I am the Sr. Researcher (aka Researchologist) for Microsoft Corporation in the APS group where I am a key player in building, training and setting the strategy for the Sourcing team. My approach adds value to Recruiting, explores, and exploits all old and new techniques for the best results. Six Degrees: What single event had the most impact on your sourcing/recruiting career? Kay: I would say working for a start up company; it empowered me to carve out my niche. My passion for creating the research need and it gave me the means to develop my skills. With the support of those who saw me as a diamond in the rough… look at me now. I am a diamond! The manager who gave me this opportunity is no longer in the field, but I am sure he would be very pleased where I am in my career and would say “I knew it all the time” Do you have a mentor to whom you attribute your overall outlook on recruitment, capabilities, and/or model your career after? Kay: I don’t have just one Mentor, I would say I have several who in most cases don’t even know the influence they have on me. Here are a few people that I appreciate for their influence on the sourcing industry Shally Steckerl, Rob Macintosh, Amy Beth Hale, Moises Lopez, and Carmen Hudson just to name a few. In someway, these are folks who helps confirm what I do, is a great validation and importance in our world of recruiting. To them, I would like to say Thank you! Six Degrees: Tell us about your job Kay: I am the Sr. Researcher (aka Researchologist) for Advertiser and Publisher Solutions Group (APS) at Microsoft Corporation where I am a key player in building, training and setting the strategy for the sourcing team. At any given time I will be working with 2 - 12 recruiters. My relationships with recruitment staff is very important to me. The goal is to effectively communicate needs on both sides so we can accomplish some of the difficulties of finding top passive talent. My work is to take some of the pressure off the recruiters and do most if not all of the internet name generation, sourcing, research, etc so that recruiters can focus on developing the passive and/or active candidate relationships. It is important to me that WE as a team work together to be sure candidate as well as the hiring manager has the best experience possible while working with our teams. Six Degrees: Tell us about your industry involvement. Kay: I spoke at SourceCon 2008, it was my first time and it was the best experiencing to have the support of my peers in the industry. I really want to make change and become more proactive in educating others as well as being a SME in my field. I still feel that my job is relatively new concept to recruiting in a way that there needs to be distinguished role in order to accomplish all the different approaches in conquering the multi facets in our growing technology. Six Degrees: What is your next career goal? Kay: I would like to get into a leadership role focusing on research, training, mentoring and speaking about to leverage each other’s skills and passion. As I work with recruiters and partner with the businesses of the company, the demands that both sides are facing in hiring talented candidates needs to have a synergy between the Research/Source/Recruitment/Hiring process. I want to be a part of a new movement and make change in recruiting. Recruiting in general is still having a hard time understanding the value of “specialized” individuals since the industry seems to want to create a super recruiter that can do all things. This process is broken when you have so many burnt out recruiters that are tired of working to the brink of exhaustion. We need to divide our roles and responsibilities to make work more creative, effective as well as efficient. With the new Web 2.0 generation, it’s just too much to have one individual to succeed. Let’s make the change together! Six Degrees: Tell us of your other passions in life beyond work in our industry. Kay: As a hard hitting internet researchologist and data manipulating mad woman – most would not picture the artist that paints Picasso like abstracts as well as creator of glass jewelry and especially not, the six year career in the United States Navy. My family taught service above self and to help those in need. Mary Cay and I continue that philosophy and way of life with our sons, be being involved with the homeless over the holidays and charity work. My time and various artworks have been donated to both the AIDS Foundation as well as the Cancer Foundation. Like most Americans, we have lost so many to those diseases. Six Degrees: How Are You Going To Change The Recruitment Industry? Kay: I feel very strongly about how communications is broken in our own recruiting world. If we don’t address some of the issues that we face as a recruiting function, then we will never move ahead with the ever changing technology regardless of the industry. We need to utilize our strengths and interest that we hold within the recruiting industry. In recruiting, we tend to make hiring and candidates a “process” and tend to forget about the “human” part of human resources. I decided a long time ago to focus on the research/sourcing aspects of recruiting because of the vast amount of information and the forever changing ways to connect with the talent that is available passively. I am finding more and more corporations are trying to save money by asking one recruiter to do it ALL. This is a major problem, because no one can do it all and be effective, efficient, and still love their job. In fact we have lost a lot of good recruiters because of lack of work life balance that company’s claim they have. I want (will) to be part of a new kind of recruiting and make changes in our industry that support multiple resources to provide the best human experience for candidates and clients alike. We need to start looking at passion, expertise, specialization, to be key factors in areas that we are able to provide research/sourcing/recruiting to humanize the process. By empowering an individual and giving them the education to accomplish these things, then we as team will be stronger and better. My motto: Knowledge is Power and Sharing is Caring! I love working with recruiters and businesses that benefit from my passion and knowledge! Recommendations For Kay “I worked with Kay at Amazon.com and found her to be a thorough, diligent researcher and sourcer. Kay's knowledge of search, research and sourcing continues to impress me, and her ability to quickly understand the elements of a search would benefit any organization. Moreover, she is fun to work with!” May 10, 2005 Carmen Hudson “Kay is a sourcing PHENOMENON! I am consistently amazed at her ability to network with and discover amazing talent for her teams - she is also incredibly gracious in sharing her knowledge with her peers - Kay is passionate about sourcing, and her talent at it is well known - she recently spoke at SourceCon '08. Any organization that is looking to grow and flourish will be lucky to have Kay as a part of the team. She's a star!” September 15, 2008 Mary Hurlock-Murphy, Lead Recruiter, Avenue A | Razorfish “Kay is on the cutting-edge of deep search and candidate sourcing. When ever I work with Kay, I feel like I come away learning something new. Kay is a true wealth of knowledge when it comes to interactive search and sourcing and it has been a real pleasure working with her.” May 1, 2008 Peter Kaye, Sr. Recruiter, Avenue A Razorfish “Kay is by far one of the best Sourcers/Recruiters I've worked with. Her knowledge and expertise is boundless and unmeasurable. She's always coming up with excellent strategies and ideas on sourcing and candidate generation. She's a pleasure to work with.” May 1, 2008 Jenafer Park, Recruiter, Atlas, a Microsoft Corporation subsidiary “Kay is best, if you need to find anyone or anything via the web she will show you how!!! She is a self taught master at web sourcing, she spends 1:1 time with every new Recruiter on my team and I always take advantage of getting her on my calendar to learn new tricks of the trade. She is best I have worked with; she is always available and loves to help. A definite team player who thrives on helping my team become more successful. Highly recommend” May 1, 2008 Shannon Barbour, Recruiting Manager, Avenue A | Razorfish “Kay is an incredible team-mate. Her experience, knowledge, drive, determination and creativity really shine through, and you see it when you work with her. Her passion for research, how to use it, how to share it are all things that make her great at her job,. Kay is a pleasure to work with and an awesome team member. GO TEAM SPIDERS!” November 9, 2007 Bryan Reichert, Prospecting and Networking Manager, aQuantive, a Microsoft subsidiary “Kay is an amazing sourcer! She comes up with candidates that are right on. Kay assumes ownership and does what it takes to get the job done. I recommend her without any reservations.” June 6, 2007 Nelia Hayes, Senior Recruiter (Account Manager), Microsoft - Windows Live “Kay is a very smart, dedicated worker that is motivated by using key sourcing techniques to find information that enables recruiters.” July 7, 2005 Tameiko Davis, Senior Technical Recruiter, Washington Mutual “This woman is phenomenal at what she does. She is able to source potential candidates quickly when others have failed. I recommend her without reservation...she is excellent at what she does.” June 17, 2005 Vicki Cohen, Staffing Manager, Saltmine “Kay is one of the brightest stars in internet research I have had the privelege of working with; she is also one of the most determined when it comes to producing results. Professional, fast, and very committed to the needs of the organizations she represents, Kay is a recruiter's dream to work with!” June 5, 2005 Claudia Faust “I worked with Kay at both Amazon and T-Mobile. Kay would source candidates and I was her customer as a technical recruiter for both companies. Kay is excellent at finding good people and she gets what you are looking for very quickly. She uses her intelligence to find what you want. She is persistent and reliable and I would recommend her highly for sourcing. She adds value to any recruiting team.” May 12, 2005 Perry Brunner…; Added by Dave Mendoza at 1:37am on November 3, 2008

Blog Post: 10 Predictions for Recruitment & Staffing in 2012: Social Recruiting finally went mainstream in 2011 with corporate and agency recruiters embracing LinkedIn and internet sourcing as a required skill for the modern recruiter, shifting away…; Added by Johnny Campbell at 5:19am on January 4, 2012

Blog Post: Irritating co-workers. The definitive list.: I originally wrote these observations with the intent of making some kind of HR Top Trumps game out of them. I thought it would make a nice leave-behind gift for recruiters, but as I am no…; Added by Alasdair Murray at 10:24am on January 10, 2010

Topic: Transcript - Talent Talk Cafe: Week of Nov 10th - Suzy Tonini on Competitive Intelligence: ollow and would appreciate any feedback to know if its something that we should continue to do. So, sit back, grab a coffee and enjoy the conversation! Don't forget to join us and participate in the live Chat each week on Tuesday's and Thursday's at 3pm ET / 12pm PT. Susan Burns Hi Everyone! Stick around for Talent Talk Cafe with Suzy Tonini - topic is compeititve intelligence. Starting in 5! 1:59pm Irina Shamaeva Hi 1:59pm Suzy Hi everyone 1:59pm Maureen Sharib Hi Suzy. 1:59pm Maren Hogan Hey Suzy! 1:59pm Suzy Susan will you be the emcee here please? 1:59pm Susan Burns Hi Irina - Hi Suzy - Hi Maureen - we'll begin in a few 2:00pm Slouch Hey Suzy, Thanks for spending an hour with us 2:00pm Dorothy Beach CI was whart caught my eye 2:00pm Irina Shamaeva I'm Suzy's follower on twitter - enjoy it, very informative 2:00pm Suzy Hi Maureen, Irina, Maren and Jason-nice being here virtually 2:00pm Susan Burns Hello Everyone! Its time for Talent Talk Cafe! Our special guest host today is Suzy Tonini from Deloitte 2:00pm Amybeth Hale Hi Suzy! 2:00pm Susan Burns A couple of things and then we'll get started 2:00pm Suzy Hey Amybeth! 2:01pm Suzy So I'm just going to say one big group hello 2:01pm Susan Burns You can click on Chat in the blue nav bar to pop the chat out and make it bigger and easier to follow 2:02pm Susan Burns Also, if you haven't already heard......drumroll.....Talent Talk Cafe is now on twice a week - Tues and Thurs with 6 fabulous new voices and another one to be announced soon! 2:02pm Susan Burns Our guest host today - Suzy Tonini - is a wealth of information! I learn something from her every week thanks to all her fab tweets! 2:02pm Suzy Cool beans! Can I ask a few questions to your group then? 2:03pm Susan Burns Take it away Suzy! 2:03pm Susan Burns Hi Amybeth! 2:04pm Amybeth Hale Hello Susan :D 2:04pm Suzy BTW:Tweets are 140 chat msgs on Twitter in case you dind't know that by now. One of my fav tools for gathering CI. OK for you TPR'sdo you add value by providing CI to your Clients? If so, what do you provide and what tols do you use? 2:04pm Suzy excuse lame spelling 2:04pm Susan Burns What are TPRs - exscuse the lame acronym knowledge ;-) 2:05pm Jeff Gauthier third party recruiters 2:05pm Susan Burns Thanks Jeff! 2:05pm Suzy Was that too big of a question....?Yes, Third Party Recruiters/Agencies etc 2:05pm Shannon Myers yes and no 2:05pm Eric Gilson We provide CI information regarding salaries to our clients. We use the phone as a tool to gather the information. 2:05pm Jeff Gauthier as a tpr, we share salary/offer info as appropriate from competitors 2:06pm Shannon Myers Agreed more info as related to marketing the position - salaries, benefits, etc 2:06pm Suzy So you wouldn't provide org charts of sorts as an added value? 2:06pm Shannon Myers with names or just to show structure? 2:07pm Suzy well, names are always juicier;-D 2:07pm Jeff Gauthier we would be more inclined to keep that to ourselves 2:07pm Irina Shamaeva We get paid on a contingency basis. I wish we were also paid for providing CI 2:07pm Eric GilsonIt's not that I wouldn't, I just don't currently 2:08pm Kay Hi All, can sombody tell me how do i remove a blog? 2:08pm Paul DeBettignies I share who is hiring, laying off, new products, news not yet out in the community 2:08pm Maureen Sharib I think it's a BIG income area that sourcers can tap into (if they're so inclined). 2:08pm Shannon Myers I think more CI is offered depending on relationship you already have with a client and whether it is for a new position you are recruiting for or more general 2:08pm Kay I mean I posteda blog a couple of days ago now I want to delete it from my page 2:08pm Susan Burns Hi Kay - you can write to Jason through his profile. This is a scheduled chat so they'll be focused on set topic 2:09pm Suzy OK- for corporate recruiters then-is there a CI function w/in your company and do you gather primary research info (phone) and disseminate back to your team and leadership? 2:09pm Kay oops!!! 2:09pm Suzy Thanks Maureen- good point 2:09pm Suzy Paul- that's good stuff you are sharing 2:09pm Dorothy Beach No CI function and yes primary info is given back to team 2:10pm Paul DeBettignies (but I do keep theorg chart to myself) 2:10pm Maureen Sharib CI could be a direct link between recruiting and business devt with outreaches to devt and marketing. 2:10pm Irina Shamaeva Suzy, we work with 2 of your competitors and our relationships with them are good very structured. 2:10pm Irina Shamaeva good but 2:10pm Dorothy Beach Most companies aren't organized to receive much from Recruiting( 2:10pm Suzy Dorothy-can you expand on that thought? 2:11pm Maureen Sharib Most companiesdon't tHINK about what information recruiters and sourcers come across on a daily basis... 2:11pm Paul DeBettignies or that it is as valuable as it is 2:11pm Maureen Sharib Zakly 2:11pm Susan Burns Often recruiting doesn't offer up the info to the right people though - they have to take the lead sometimes 2:11pm Dorothy Beach I meant as far as CI is concerned. 2:11pm Susan Burns If you have the knowledge but don't share it ....who would know to ask? 2:11pm Suzy Yes- so in essence a structured CI function that works hand in hand with recruiting would be ideal, correct? 2:11pm Maureen Sharib They don'tknow howtohANDLE the information for the most part - how toact on it - a lack of criticalthinking IMO 2:11pm Paul DeBettignies yes 2:12pm Irina Shamaeva Yes 2:12pm Eric Gilson I guess that we do provide information on some of our clients competitors. Which verticals or horizontals consulting firms seem to be hiring in. But I would hope that they would already know who they are competing with out there? 2:12pm Suzy Eric- you'd be surprised 2:12pm Paul DeBettignies I know of a big company here in Mpls that calls it the rumor mill. They ask recruiters to pass on any information they ehar about to the VP operations 2:12pm Dorothy Beach No place in an ATS that can capture it and then be serached for - it miiht be illegal to even put it in there? So where to put it? 2:12pm Maureen Sharib My thots zakly Suzy! 2:12pm Susan Burns Suzy - how do you see CI intersecting with workforce planning? 2:12pm Eric Gilson SAP for example.... 2:13pm Suzy Paul- well, that's innovative! 2:13pm Maureen Sharib Illegal? 2:13pm Paul DeBettignies nothing formal, just pass it on 2:13pm Suzy Susan- can you maybe rephrase? 2:13pm Maureen Sharib Big audience today Suzy! 2:13pm Suzy HA! Thanks Maureen 2:14pm Susan Burns As you see CI working closely w/ the recruiting function do you also see it working closely with the workforce planning group or person? 2:14pm Eric Gilson How do you use and distribut CI internally Suzy 2:14pm Suzy Dorothy- hmm...yes, good point. ATS might not be the spot for CI-perhaps a newsletter? 2:15pm Suzy Eric- that's for me to know and for you to find out:-0 2:15pm Dorothy Beach I am thinking of risk for a company to let that out - advice on how to handle that kind of info? 2:15pm Susan Burns Suzy - are sharepoint sites being used too? 2:15pm Dorothy Beach Adding this info to a Sharepoint site that has hiring manager access? 2:15pm Suzy Susan- I see CI being used pretty much in all functions of a company. Yes, I've heard of internal Sharepoint sites being used 2:16pm Shannon Myers I would think some CI would be vital to attracting/retaining talent and has to be discussed somewhere 2:16pm Susan Burns what about CRM? Could it be set up to manage the info as well? 2:16pm Suzy I would like to hear fromothers on Dorothy's question...? 2:16pm Irina Shamaeva Suzy, we talk about CI and hopefully we all understand it similarly - but would you mind saying a definition, or listing items? 2:16pm Dorothy Beach You mean CRM like Salesforce that others have access to? 2:17pm Suzy Irina- competitive and business intelligence- what your competitors are doing, hiring, firing, planning on doing, salaries, benefits etc 2:17pm Dorothy Beach Before I forget there is Paul Houston - from SCIP - who specializes in Recruiting and CI 2:17pm Susan Burns Dorothy - yes but access can be protected if needed/desired 2:17pm Irina Shamaeva Thanks 2:18pm Suzy Paul Houston- well check him out- I too am amember of SCIP 2:18pm Suzy Society for Competitive Intelligence Professionals 2:18pm Suzy So how does your company leverage CI to source candidates? 2:19pm Suzy And- when does gathring CI become unethical, in your opinions 2:19pm Dorothy Beach Right now it is the simple stuff - layoff reports, industry reports, analysts reports ... 2:20pm Susan Burns Suzy - do you like what LI is doing with the corporate beta project - is it a good CI resource? 2:21pm Irina Shamaeva We know the competitors and what they are good at so look for candidates there; know when they are about to layoff or are being acquired etc 2:21pm Paul DeBettignies I found staying within my ethics is simple. I always ask people, "what do you know" 2:21pm Dorothy Beach If you go to a new employee and he/she is apporached about their last company but doesn't want to talk about it - the recriter/CI person might push for info too hard - then it might be unethical 2:21pm Paul DeBettignies rarely have to dig further although I may be missing the "really" good stuff 2:21pm Suzy I like what LI did very much- it's not 100% but it certainly gives you som good basic data to work off of 2:22pm Susan Burns Curious - if your working with a prospect that easily offers up info - how do you feel about presenting them to a client? 2:22pm Susan Burns the person that is who just disclosed a bunch of proprietary info ;-) 2:22pm Dorothy Beach Not sure what the corp beta project is? 2:22pm Eric Gilson I would coach him to be a little more tight lipped 2:22pm Suzy I like yuor approach Paul-keep it simple 2:23pm Susan Burns Dorothy - click on a company name in someones profile and you'll see 2:23pm Suzy Agreed with Eric 2:23pm Dorothy Beach Oh you mean the link for company info - yes very interesting and could be expanded 2:24pm Suzy I'm curious- oes your company try to obtain CI from new hires and is that process established? 2:24pm Susan Burns Good question Suzy! 2:24pm Suzy This would be for corporate recruiters 2:24pm Dorothy Beach Not established - 2:24pm Eric Gilson If I was internal, I was ask each new hire for a list of the best people he/she has worked with over the last few years. 2:25pm Eric Gilson every hire 2:25pm Suzy Good one Eric 2:25pm Dorothy Beach Corporations have a hard time just getting employees to put profiles into the address book! 2:25pm Susan Burns When I've seen it done its more informal and inconsistent but should be an established part of the on-boarding process like asking for referrals 2:25pm Dorothy Beach It seems it takes a lot to get info from new employees - maybe because they stress about on-boarding. 2:25pm Amybeth Hale When we hire new people, we use that opportunity to get referrals for hires 2:26pm Shannon Myers Dorthoy - LI is using data from LI users and updates from Capital IQ to be able to show who is where coming and going if you click on some of the companies - still in devp't 2:26pm Amybeth Hale and often in that process we discover good CI nuggets :) 2:26pm Susan Burns Amybeth - how are the CI nuggets shared 2:26pm Amybeth Hale Such as if our competitors do investment hiring, if they've recently had hiring frosts, or perhaps certain areas of their business where they are ramping up (potential new client gains) 2:27pm KarenM / Hirecentrix.com question, does anyone ask if there the candidate signed any non disclosures before asking questions? 2:27pm Suzy That would be a good question, Karen! 2:27pm Susan Burns Karen - would also expect that has come up prior in the hiring process 2:27pm Susan Burns or previously ;-) 2:28pm Dorothy Beach Oh yes, especially in an Exec Search Practice and if the search is confidential 2:28pm Suzy I would asume any self-respecting hiring manager/recruiter would do that 2:28pm Jason C. Blais How much time and how often do people engage in CI activity? 2:28pm Amybeth Hale Precisely. Those things are determined going through the hiring process to begin with. 2:28pm KarenM / Hirecentrix.com another question, then, the candidate has said agreement, and they expose information, what would you do as the recruiter or hiring manager? 2:28pm Suzy Jason: it can be a full-time job or it can be an extension of your recruiting -ask probing questions 2:29pm Susan Burns Amybeth - can u share more about how the info gathered is put to use.....shared with key people..... 2:29pm Eric Gilson My HM's have shot a guy down for this when the info shared was actually public knowledge 2:29pm Jason C. Blais (sorry I'm late to the table- I was at an HR meeting acquiring CI from Corp HR Prof's and Consultants) 2:29pm Susan Burns Suzy - can it overlap with a sourcing strategist role too 2:29pm Eric Gilson yeah yeah 2:29pm Susan Burns So, Jason - you have lots of new CI to share with us then ;-) 2:30pm Suzy Susan- yes indeed Sourcing and CI should go hand in hand 2:30pm Amybeth Hale I'm just a simple researcher. I share what I learn w/ my manager and let him decide what to do with it. 2:30pm Susan Burns Amybeth - u underestimate yourself ;-) 2:30pm Jason C. Blais (reading my ethics and morality book now, trying to determine whether it's okay to share, and if so how) 2:30pm Eric Gilson How about TPR using CI to attract passive candidates? 2:30pm Suzy Amybeth: you are NOT just a simple researcher @:^) 2:31pm Dorothy Beach You mean Eric about the company they are in? 2:31pm Susan Burns Seriously Amybeth - I could see u developing a secret insights book each month that goes to the Board! 2:31pm Eric Gilson "I hear that your current company lost that account or is about to...." 2:31pm Eric Gilson yes 2:31pm Suzy To Karen's point: what would you do if candidate has NDA and exposes info anyway...and the answer is? 2:31pm Jason C. Blais I'd like to hear more about what is done with the CI once you have it- white papers? Meetings? Strategic implementation? newsletters? 2:32pm KarenM / Hirecentrix.com jason that is a good one, and also to add to that, what does your company do to protect themselves if they become privy to info they may not have 2:32pm Suzy Jason- I beleive all of the above would be an ideal mix 2:32pm Susan Burns Suzy - re last Q - (a) shouldn't ask out of respect but (b) if they share I'd say bad hire! 2:33pm Suzy OK- one of MY fave topics- what tools do YOU ue to uncover CI?? 2:33pm Susan Burns Many companies have written policies stating that the information can not and should not be used and its grounds for separation 2:33pm Amybeth Hale When we are made aware, either through a tip or a public press release, that a target company has started rounds of layoffs, the other researcher and I set about looking for individuals who work for that company, gather their contact information, and pass it to our recruiters or do initial outreach to them. 2:33pm Dorothy Beach Yes, what is professional in manner? Especially if candidate is to go to a high position 2:34pm Jason C. Blais If there are public layoffs, isn't it appropriate to contact the HR at the location and offer to help with career transition? 2:34pm Susan Burns Suzy - before we go on - wondering if it would be helpful to discern between CI that is appropriate to collect and share and CI that is not appropriate to collec and share 2:34pm Dorothy Beach Now see I have gone straight to the outplacement companies to ask what titles for example are being released 2:34pm Dorothy Beach What the timing is 2:35pm Susan Burns Jason - YES! 2:35pm Dorothy Beach Usually someone in HR in the targeted company that is laying off will tell you which outplacement firm they use 2:35pm Dorothy Beach The onlycompany I haven't been able to get that from was P&G 2:35pm Dorothy Beach But I got it from other sources 2:36pm Suzy Well appropriate is A)anything that is on the internet (for the most part) is fair game and can be shared and B)inappropriate- I guess I don't know since I've never gone there! 2:36pm Dorothy Beach so one should search th einternet before disclosing? 2:37pm Susan Burns So, is information shared during conversation appropriate if its simply offered up and there is not an NDA 2:37pm Jason C. Blais we work with ouplacement firms, to provide "online job hunting tips" to those outplaced. Often they haven't searched for a job in quite some time. As a job posting service, we know we have had exposure to a group from a certain background, and our sales calls other companies to sell access ot our RezDB. Is that commonly agreed to be appropriate? 2:37pm Irina Shamaeva Suzy - what is you get somebody's password to a closed source? 2:37pm Susan Burns I guess there is also a fine line between legal and ethical. Recall hearing of someone getting a hold of a doc online that should not have been available - do you use it or not? 2:38pm Suzy Irina- that sounds un-ethical to me if I hear you correctly 2:38pm Jason C. Blais A little bird told me? 2:38pm Dorothy Beach It seems to me Susan that happens less and less often 2:38pm Amybeth Hale Who's the one to determine if the doc should/should not have been available? 2:38pm Eric Gilson I use Jason's line 2:39pm Suzy Jason & Eric- and that actually flies as an answer? 2:39pm Dorothy Beach so how does one reveal sources of information that might be delicate? 2:39pm Eric Gilson example: A candidate tells me the name of their best Client Partner. I ask if I can use the candidate's name when contacting them. They say no. 2:40pm Jason C. Blais:-! not exactly. Though sometimes the value of the information will bend people's sense of ethics..s 2:40pm Susan Burns AMybeth - in the ex I shared - it was part of an SEC filing for a financial inst - full org chart with names and titles 2:40pm Jason C. Blais ..so i try to avoid those situations as best as possible. 2:40pm Jason C. Blais susan- wow. 2:41pm Suzy And Susan- how did you know it wasn't supposed to be up? 2:41pm Eric Gilson I don't come out and say a birdy told me, what I tell them is that their name was given to me by a individual that I am currently assisting in a confidential job search. 2:41pm Susan Burns Suzy - don't know for sure but it was requested with the filing and I would expect the company did not anticipate it to be an accessible document 2:41pm Eric Gilson Your name came up as someone who is very good at what they do. ALl I can say is that I will offer you the same level of confidentiality that I offer all executives that I engage with. 2:42pm Maureen Sharib full org chart with names and titles That's unusual in an SEC filing. ALL the employees? 2:42pm Dorothy Beach A SEC file not accessible? 2:42pm Eric Gilson and yeah. That works everytime 2:42pm Susan Burns May be more common now with SOX - not sure 2:42pm Jason C. Blais I'm trying to build more CI into our company. I am a member and on the board of HR associations. I attend trade and chamber activities. I build trust and gain info and insight. 2:42pm Susan Burns Maureen - not all but a lot! 2:42pm Dorothy Beach Ohhh - something to look into... 2:43pm Susan Burns Suzy - I think we got off track - you had another question for us 2:43pm Jason C. Blais I become very wary of handing that intelligence to our sales team, as I don't want to burn bridges. We need the info, but have to be tactful on how we use it. 2:43pm Suzy Jason- that sounds like a very good path you're on 2:43pm Irina Shamaeva Someone told me recently that examining source code for web pages is not right, you agree? 2:43pm Jim - medXcentral jumping in late again.. sorry. 2:44pm Amybeth Hale Isn't source code considered to be public domain? 2:44pm Suzy My question was: what tools & techniques do you guys use to gather useful CI? 2:44pm Eric Gilson The telephone 2:44pm Amybeth Hale I love press releases personally - online paper trails. One usually leads to several others 2:44pm Suzy Irina- why is that not right? If anyone is able to view them... 2:44pm Jason C. Blais In a previous life, I worked for a travel broker that guaranteed loweest rates. 2:44pm Maureen Sharib I have allowed my thoughts to wander -my mind to drift - here: If a corporation is a public entity then doesn't the "public" (who holds stock) deserve to be privy to the employee info? I know it's a pipedream...a fantasy...but it sure would be nice! :) 2:44pm Jason C. Blais There was a whole dept devoted to calling all our competitors every day and filling a spreadsheet with rates 2:44pm Dorothy Beach Usual stuff - SEC filings, websites, blogs, LinkedIn sometimes, etc 2:44pm Susan Burns Twitter, LI 2:45pm Irina Shamaeva Say on zoominfo you can view source of your results and emails will not be truncated, easy to get all at once, like cheating 2:45pm Suzy Maureen- nice dream for sure!! 2:45pm Susan Burns Maureen - guess it comes down to intention. Transparency is very good but protecting assets protects the shareholders as well 2:46pm Jason C. Blais Old school but effective. Now there is much more activity on the web, but it's become less reliable. Published info, particularly on the web will always be tainted with spin.. 2:46pm Suzy I'm sure RSS feeds are used as well-I like to be on top of things and disseminate to my team ASAP 2:46pm Susan Burns Ultimately - if ee are happy, engaged and taken care of they won't leave. if they want to leave its only a matter of time 2:46pm Jason C. Blais Suzy, do you think more people should have access to CI tools like RSS feeds, or fewer? 2:46pm Susan Burns RSS is going wild - although I heard it may peak at 11% usage 2:47pm Susan Burns Suzy - do u by that # - 11% of Internet users will take advantage of RSS 2:47pm Suzy Jason-it takes a certain type of info-maniac to really stay on top of things, but yes people should have access to RSS feeds by all means! 2:47pm Suzy I know- not that many RSS users kind of boggles my mind- just gave a webinar on setting them up etc 2:47pm Jason C. Blais I mean to say: will productivity suffer from analysis paralysis? Too much time in research, not enough time in action? 2:48pm Maureen Sharib Is there a single most important piece of CI? 2:48pm Susan Burns Jason - good point - comes down to roles and structure to take advantage of it 2:48pm Suzy Jason-that is why Internet Researchers such as Amybeth and I are of great value-let us do the legwork 2:48pm Susan Burns Maureen - do u mean of the data collected or of how its used? 2:48pm Dorothy Beach Yes, how to manage it all - I think you have to try enough venues to understand what gives most pointed info and then cut out all the rest 2:48pm Maureen Sharib The data collected. 2:49pm Susan Burns Suzy - this really emphasizes the importance of how a recruiting/talent function is structured. Much more sophisticated to then previously 2:49pm Charles Bretz Suzy, any tips orbest practices for compiling and sharing your CI - what about storage and access 2:49pm Suzy Thanks Susan- very true. 2:49pm Dorothy Beach Goof Q Maureen - is there such a thing as a single best CI site/blog/whatever? 2:50pm Amybeth Hale Jason: agreed w/ Suzy. Professional researchers know what to do with the mountains of information that would be daunting to most people. It's good to have people like us on staff to filter through these important bits of information. 2:50pm Jason C. Blais In our business, I am the funnel for info from blogs, associations, networks, RSS feeds, etc, for the higher level strategic data collection. We turn that data into seminars accredited by HRCI, offer the seminar, build trust, get leads. 2:50pm Maureen Sharib Or what piece of CI is most valuable? Any opinions? 2:50pm Jason C. Blais However, our sales managers spend a % of time on sales CI... 2:50pm Suzy Charles- well hello there! Ideally, a corporate social networks comprised of RSS feeds, blogs and wikis would be the best way to disseminate CI- IBM has something really good up and running w/even a Twitter like function 2:50pm Susan Burns If someone is on IE could you try and copy the chat stream and send me a doc. I can't get it with Firefox or Safari 2:50pm Dorothy Beach So would a CRM typically used by sales people be a one stop shop? 2:50pm Jason C. Blais Charles- I'm interested in the same- storage and dissemination 2:51pm Amybeth Hale Suzy, do they use Yammer? 2:51pm RecruiterGuy Video for my friends here on RBC... http://www.recruitingblogs.com/video/recruiterguy-the-what-before 2:51pm Amybeth Hale Yammer not has groups you can moderate w/i you company. Great way to get info quickly to large, or small, groups of people 2:51pm Susan Burns Dorothy - to some degree - yes, what biz dev and sales is putting into the CRM it could be very informative 2:51pm Jason C. Blais Susan, I can capture this stream on Firefox. Highlight the first line. Then hold the shift and click on the last line, copy paste 2:51pm Maren Hogan oh good I was gonna say that Chris just put up a really cool post on slicin g and dicing the RSS feeds you get 2:51pm Suzy IBM uses something proprietary called Beehive I beleive-I've tried Yammer- it's OK 2:52pm Susan Burns well thank you Jason! 2:52pm Susan Burns Jason - still can't get it but I'm on a mac - is that why 2:53pm Susan Burns Suzy - is beehive avail outside of IBM or proprietary in dev and use? 2:53pm Suzy Maureen- as far as best piece of CI-all relative to your company... 2:53pm Jason C. Blais I'll get it at 4... though I only came in at 3:12, so missed some. I'll send it to you 2:53pm Charles Bretz I can copy and paste the thread. who should I send it to? 2:53pm Suzy Susan- Beehive is their internal twitter tool 2:53pm Susan Burns thanks Charles - talentsynchronicity@mac.com 2:53pm Charles Bretz You'll have it at the end 2:54pm Susan Burns You data junkies (me too btw) may also be interested in a new book called the Numerati on how companies, esp IBM, are using data to make a lot of decisions about team structure and project deployment - some good internal. Not sure how much may be CI related but possibly Suzy Thanks Susan- will look into it 2:55pm Susan Burns Suzy - do you have any closing thoughts or last questions 2:55pm Amybeth Hale Numerati was recommended to my by a prominent analyst relations professional as well. As you are the second person to recommend it, I guess I should go buy it :) 2:55pm RecruiterGuy Susan seriously?? By BAker? 2:56pm Suzy BTW- I thank all of you for being here and chatting and I hope it was all worth your while 2:56pm Susan Burns You can read an excerpt of the book in BusinessWeek - or Newsweek - forget which one 2:56pm Eric Gilson Stay happy Suzi. Thinking about you guys! 2:56pm Jason C. Blais I'm glad to know that CI is blossoming and i'm on the right track! 2:56pm Jason C. Blais THanks 2:56pm Suzy Thanks Eric- it's gorgeous out here and you need to come visit 2:56pm Eric Gilson Keller was last night! 2:56pm Eric Gilson I didn't go 2:57pm Susan Burns Suzy - this has been a great chat! Thanks much for all of your insight! I know this was a tough day for you with the loss of your dog and appreciate you spending time with us 2:57pm Suzy Aww-thanks Susan- it was a good distraction 2:57pm Susan Burns Thanks everyone for joining Talent Talk Cafe today - lots of great insight about CI, the value it brings and how to navigate some sensitive areas…; Added by Susan Burns at 1:16am on November 14, 2008

Topic: Transcript - Talent Talk Cafe: Week of Nov 17th - Jerry Albright on Agency Recruitment Best Practies and Processes: st the tip of the Chat and I'm sure we'll see this continue in December! Following is an overview of Jerry's topic and the Chat transcript. You can also find Jerry online HERE! 3:03pm Susan Burns It all yours Jerry! 3:03pm Maren Hogan Let's hear it for the boy 3:03pm Jerry Albright thanks! 3:03pm Susan Burns (hi Pam! hi Josh - long time Josh!) 3:03pm Julia Stone clap, clap, whistle 3:03pm Jerry Albright That makes me laugh Maren! 3:03pm Joshua Letourneau hi, susan :) 3:03pm Maren Hogan :) 3:04pm Susan Burns Hey roomie! 3:04pm Jerry Albright I see the crowd is getting just a bit bigger each time with TTC. 3:04pm Jerry Albright Today's theme is Agency Recruiting 3:04pm Kondalarao :-) 3:04pm Jerry Albright I'm not an expert in social media, ATS, branding or the other stuff. 3:05pm Jerry Albright and today I'm just going to throw out some of the principals I personally stick with. 3:05pm Jerry Albright i wish I could type faster! 3:05pm Jerry Albright let me dig one up here for you... 3:06pm Jerry Albright 11. If your client is within a days drive – you MUST meet them personally. 3:06pm Jerry Albright These are just random by the way - you can tell that's number 11. 3:06pm Jerry Albright Do you visit your clients? 3:06pm Susan Burns I like that Jerry! We understimate the f2f time 3:06pm Maren Hogan Do you always have to bring food? Seems like vendoras always bring food 3:07pm Julia Stone absofreakinlulely 3:07pm Jerry Albright I never do. 3:07pm Jerry Albright should I? 3:07pm Maren Hogan around christmas it starts to irritate me 3:07pm Joshua Letourneau i bring rubber frogs - seriously :) well, jelly ones 3:07pm A Lonnie McRorey what are vendoras? 3:07pm Susan Burns Food is good - calculators are bad! 3:07pm Maren Hogan I don't know. Tell me, if I am a brands new recruiter (:) what is the ONE process I should have in place 3:07pm Maren Hogan vendoras=vendors 3:07pm Jerry Albright OK. So I personally believe you should meet absolutely EVERY client that gives you a job order. 3:07pm Joshua Letourneau they're good for stress relief and adults are kinesthetic (give 'em somethin to play with and their brain fires more) :) 3:08pm Jerry Albright I've lost the crowd already Susan............ 3:08pm Julia Stone I'm with you 3:08pm Maren Hogan before or after they've given you the order Jerry? 3:08pm Sue so am I 3:08pm Susan Burns I think u got em rolling on ideas Jerry! 3:08pm A Lonnie McRorey Close to the Spanish of Vendedoras 3:08pm Carol Thornton go ahead! 3:08pm Julia Stone ribbit, stay focused Lonnie 3:08pm Jerry Albright I go after I take the order. It's part of my process. 3:08pm Jerry Albright If they won't make time to see me.... 3:09pm Sue suppose they don't want to meet w/u 3:09pm Jerry Albright then I'm doubting they will make time to work with me 3:09pm Carol Thornton What if your clients are all over the country and F2F is not an option? 3:09pm Jerry Albright it really is that simple Sue. Really. 3:09pm Julia Stone I agree with Jerry. I have another one too, can I add? 3:09pm Jerry Albright Good point Carol. 3:09pm Susan Burns Jerry - how do u frame the purpose of the meeting 3:10pm Jerry Albright I just let them know that since I'll be representing them I would like to get to know them better. 3:10pm Joshua Letourneau can i interject a fringe idea? a small one . .. 3:10pm Susan Burns So prupose is tied to outome - as we get to know each other I can represent your brand better? 3:10pm pam claughton It's to their benefit to meet with you as you'll get a better sense of their environment. 3:10pm Susan Burns Josh - yes Julia - yes!! 3:10pm Julia Stone I have a 3 page intake form that I use during my initial meeting, I pick & choose. 3:11pm Jerry Albright Oh I forgot. 3:11pm Sue that is a good idea intake form 3:11pm Susan Burns pick and choose questions to ask or clients to take on 3:11pm Joshua Letourneau can you bring a flip cam and interview some 'co-workers' to help give the candidate a better feel of the culture/environment? 3:11pm Jerry Albright The term is "intake" now.....sorry PC Cops - I'll never say "job order" again....my bad 3:11pm pam claughton Josh, that's a fun idea! 3:11pm Susan Burns great idea Josh - don't forget the release form ;-) 3:11pm Julia Stone I bring an intake form to ask questions about teh company, culture, management style, etc 3:11pm Julia Stone One time, I asked what is your management style, he said...What's the right answer? 3:11pm Joshua Letourneau i'd probably wind up in jail :) 3:12pm Jerry Albright My goal in meeting my client is to get to know HIM or HER better. 3:12pm Susan Burns Jerry - how often do clients decline the meeting and what are the reasons they give 3:12pm Jerry Albright They rarely do. I'll admit - some meetings are short. 3:13pm Dean Lockett and to get face time with the watchdog of the office - get them to recognize you 3:13pm Jerry Albright But any client serious about hiring would certainly want to meet don't you think? 3:13pm Cathy McCullough do you "benchmark" resumes? I find that helps because it turns the conversation from a wish list to a reality check 3:13pm Maren Hogan Do you think that it shows something about your commitment to go there even for a ten minute meeting? 3:13pm Jerry Albright as I've mentioned before - I show up early and hang out in the cozy lobby seeing whose coming and going. 3:13pm Joshua Letourneau 'cuz they're working with 10 other firms on a vendor list or thorugh an online VMS . . . so they just want tons of resumes 3:13pm Susan Burns I agree - I always appreciate it from vendors - esp if they are focused and have a purpose & intention that will benefit the biz 3:13pm Jerry Albright Maren - yes. 3:13pm Dean Lockett Suggest team meetings if possible - I've gotten that on a first meet before 3:14pm Jerry Albright Your a heavy hitter Dean. 3:14pm Jerry Albright This is a fact: 3:14pm pam claughton I think they take you more seriously too if they invest a little time to meet with you. Shows you that they want to get the job filled. 3:14pm Susan Burns Quick interruption - can someone with IE please copy the chat stream at the end so I can paste the Chat in the Forum - Thanks! 3:14pm Julia Stone if I don't understand the culture & get to see the place, how can I possibly place the right person. I am not a magician. At least not professionally 3:14pm Jerry Albright If a client does not want to meet you - then they do not value you or your time. 3:15pm Joshua Letourneau jer, that's when you pull a D-Trump on 'em 3:15pm Gregg Alper how would you gauge who is serious and who isn't with clients not in your area that you can't meet? 3:15pm Susan Burns Ideally this investemtn in the beginning should return more "right-fit" candidates so its a good investment of time 3:15pm A Lonnie McRorey Jerry do you focus on the painful spots from the get go? 3:15pm pam claughton If they move into new space, good idea to go back in for a visit too. 3:15pm Jerry Albright Let's go with Gregg's Q here. 3:15pm Carol Thornton I can't meet with my clients so I talk to them about where they have gotten good people from in the past. This gives me a culture idea 3:15pm Julia Stone Julia's rule...I don't like to work with anyone who won't give me their cell phone number. 3:15pm Jerry Albright OK. Gregg you work long distance clients? 3:15pm pam claughton Julia, that's interesting, how did that come about? 3:15pm Dean Lockett In your meeting with HM, let them know you are looking for a sponsor to intro you to other HM's AFTER you've taken care of the person ur meeting with of course 3:16pm Susan Burns Gregg - maybe a Skype meeting if an alternative to close the distance or at least a conf call 3:16pm Gregg Alper yes. i am on east coast, some clients on the west. 3:16pm Jerry Albright If that's the case you can still gauge whether they value your time or not. 3:16pm Gregg Alper thats a good idea 3:16pm Jerry Albright Gregg - ask them to call you back. 3:16pmpam claughton You can often tell how serious they are too by how they respond to your initial submissions 3:16pm Julia Stone Well, they want us to spend 2-3 weeks worth of time with the possiblity of no pay at the end. I want to see if they are going to put any skin in the game 3:16pm Joshua Letourneau if you super-niche yourself, you can still work a large geography range . . . but i always try (at some point) to physically meet 3:17pm Dean Lockett www.gotomeeting.com might be an option 3:17pm Gregg Alper like what kind of niche Joshua? 3:17pm Jerry Albright But just how far away would a client have to be to think you wouldn't want to meet them? 3:17pm Joshua Letourneau for me, i spend most search time in a small engineering area where the candidate pool is finite 3:17pm Carol Thornton I'm in ATL and my clients are in Chicago, Dallas, Philly, etc 3:17pm pam claughton A friend of mine works the Boston area but lives in Upstate NY and she visits all her Boston clients, a 4 hour drive at least. 3:18pm Carol Thornton too far to drive 3:18pm Jerry Albright It would show them alot if you flew in 3:18pm Joshua Letourneau gregg, perhaps opto-electronics engineering or something along those lines (and then you can branch out to operational roles around that niche as well) 3:18pm Susan Burns Carol - is it worth the investment to do a quarterly touch base with past, current and prospective clients. Is there enough in each market? 3:18pm Shannon Myers Conferences are a good place to at least meet your clients. 3:18pm Jerry Albright seriously. what's $500 when you think about a 20K fee? 3:19pm Jerry Albright I wouldn't do it every time Carol. 3:19pm Julia Stone I met a client in ATL at a conference in sept, it was extremely helpful in moving us to the next level 3:19pm Carol Thornton true, but usually one client in each location 3:19pm Jerry Albright but I'd certainly meet every client who hired from me - regardless of location. 3:19pm Joshua Letourneau jer, a small co-tainer up front can help offset that as well (a $1k engagement fee or something along those lines) 3:19pm Carol Thornton I staff for managers and execs within the staffing industry so my clients are spread out 3:20pm Jerry Albright that might work. it's not my style though. 3:20pm Susan Burns Is an online meeting as valuable - can you close the virtual distance and get the same results? 3:20pm Jerry Albright I have no idea. 3:20pm Susan Burns Lets keep in mind being green too - maybe there's a way to leverage the idea of virutal? 3:20pm Julia Stone no, i don't hink so susan, it might be better than a call, but ti might just be a pain to them if they don't have a set up to do it 3:20pm Jerry Albright anything that moves your relationship forward is a good idea. 3:20pm Maren Hogan I think it's like being a good writer or having a skill, some people can do the virtual thing and others hate it 3:20pm Joshua Letourneau i've tried that, susan - but it's not the same as doing body shots with HR :) 3:20pm Maren Hogan The actual skill lies in being able to make others feel comfortable 3:21pm Gregg Alper thats not bad. i have mostly been IT and looking at other fields to focus more on one niche area 3:21pm Jerry Albright Ready for the next Random Principal? 3:21pm Carol Thornton yes 3:21pm Jerry Albright OK. Just a sec. 3:21pm Susan Burns Give us #10 Jerry!! 3:22pm Jerry Albright 14. Remove Caller ID from your phone. 3:22pm pam claughton Really, why? 3:22pm Julia Stone incoming or outgoing jer? 3:22pm pam claughton I love my caller ID :) 3:22pm Jerry Albright I want to receive each call with the same enthusiasm 3:22pm Jerry Albright incoming Julia. 3:23pm Maren Hogan #15 don't give your cousin your work phone number 3:23pm Julia Stone if that is the goal, might I also suggest standing up when you answer calls or make them? 3:23pm Jerry Albright Sure. 3:23pm Julia Stone I suggest you stand up when making calls 3:23pm Jerry Albright That's funny. 3:23pm pam claughton I think I'm a techie geek...I like knowing whose calling in. 3:24pm Cathy McCullough Also, you should consider shutting down IM and email when making recruiting calls. 3:24pm Jerry Albright so OK then - stick with your caller ID. 3:24pm Shannon Myers I would have trouble with that as well 3:24pm Julia Stone agreed cathy, I turn of my monitor 3:24pm pam claughton that's a good suggestion....email can be distracting 3:24pm Jerry Albright I take every call if I am in. No matter what. 3:25pm Jerry Albright 12. Do not assume anything – like an unemployed person can start right away or “any reasonable offer” will be accepted. Have the discussion with every person – every time. 3:25pm pam claughton twhirl is the most distracting thing on my desktop...have to shut it down often 3:25pm Susan Burns Jerry - is there something thats driving #12 - what has been your experience and is it shifting with the economy and hosing market?? 3:26pm Julia Stone wow, insightful jerry. I have learned that there is no such thing as overcommunicating, but I just learned it this year 3:26pm Susan Burns oops- housing! althouh we are all getting hosed!! 3:26pm pam claughton #12 is the most critical thing. you need to know everything and anything can change from day to day. 3:26pm Jerry Albright Assumptions kills us every time. 3:26pm Joshua Letourneau "has anything changed?" is the question that has to be asked each and every conversation . .. to the point they're telling you "No" before you even ask 3:26pm Susan Burns Pam - how often do you follow-up to make sure the candidate is still on track with agreements? 3:26pm Jerry Albright no Josh. not "has" anything changed. 3:27pm pam claughton every time I talk to them, even it's daily. 3:27pm Jerry Albright it is "WHAT HAS CHANGED" and then be quiet....... 3:27pm Joshua Letourneau touche - i like that 3:27pm Jerry Albright huuuuuuuge difference there. 3:27pm pam claughton especially if they're a good candidate, an offer in hand can change their notion of what they now want. 3:27pm Dean Lockett who,what,where,when,how, why - all open end starters 3:27pm A Lonnie McRorey Powerful 3:27pm Jerry Albright but "has" anything changed is Far better than..... 3:27pm Jerry Albright "Nothing's changed, right?....." 3:28pm Joshua Letourneau the point is, "ask" and be cognizant that things do, in fact, change - i don't know if there are perfect questions for every candidate . .. but i agree with "what's changed?" 3:28pm Jerry Albright pretty heavy indeed. 3:28pm pam claughton Or they may have gotten a raise, and that can impact what you need to close them on. 3:29pm Dean Lockett Or their company just filed Chap 11 - happened to meX-( 3:29pm Jerry Albright 28. Before you extend an offer to your candidate – take 1 hour and do something else. 3:29pm pam claughton More common, in this market, since the last time you spoke even if its just a few days, they may now be unemployed. Several of my candidates were laid off this week! 3:29pm Jerry Albright 28. Before you extend an offer to your candidate – take 1 hour and do something else. 3:29pm Susan Burns i would imagine as well that with the current economic climate any new news could make them more skittish about making a move 3:30pm pam claughton Yes, Susan that is very true too. 3:30pm Joshua Letourneau susan, Bingo - that's my situation 3:30pm Joshua Letourneau especially clients that insist on relo for all roles 3:30pm Susan Burns noone wants to be the new kid on the block unless they are currently unemployed 3:30pm pam claughton I had someone cancel an in-house interview today because he didn't want to jeopardize his current contract situation. 3:30pm Shannon Myers Jer - 1 hour to do? 3:31pm pam claughton very strange market indeed. 3:31pm Susan Burns THanks Shanon - keep us focused! 3:31pm Jerry Albright Shannon - reflect 3:31pm Jerry Albright I remember my first offer. I was SO excited. I was going to just hop on the phone with the candidate! 3:31pm Gregg Alper i've had that. recently had a guy not want to pursue a spot that was a 2 year project because of his concerns and would rather finish out the current project that ends next month and then figure things out. to me that is crazy 3:31pm Maren Hogan So ";Do you have any spare change?" would be what. . .wrong? 3:31pm Jerry Albright my mentor said - HEY! Wait a minute! 3:32pm Dean Lockett review notes, bounce it off someone else, might catch something there u missed? 3:32pm Jerry Albright could be anything. 3:32pm pam claughton Gregg, I agree, my guy had a similar mindset. Nutty. 3:32pm Jerry Albright how about just enjoying what you have in your hand! 3:32pm Susan Burns Jerry - do you tend to alter anything in your offer approach given the current biz climate? 3:32pm Jerry Albright no. 3:32pm Jerry Albright not really. 3:32pm Dean Lockett I do that after offer signed and person shows up to the dance ;-) 3:32pm pam claughton Jerry, would you advise calling to pre-close at that point? 3:33pm Jerry Albright What do you mean Pam? 3:33pm pam claughton Well you said wait an hour...am assuming you've already pre-closed, but maybe not everyone here does that as a matter fo course before extending? 3:34pm Eric Gilson Shouldn't your candidate be pre-closed well in advance to this 3:34pm Dean Lockett Whole nuther chat could be applied to "pre-close" 3:34pm pam claughton Yes, Eric they should be, but this is where many new recruiters skip the crucial step i ntheir excitement. 3:34pm Jerry Albright They should have been closed on "let's go get an offer you'll accept" prior 3:34pm Rayanne you should always pre-close..., ie; "what would it take to land you?" 3:35pm Rayanne "hav you thought about a counter-offer?" 3:35pm Jerry Albright Usually your candidate and you have been working on "the things that need to be there" in advance. 3:35pm Dean Lockett what does your spose think about this oppty? 3:35pm Eric Gilson We don't present offers unless we are sure it is going to be accepted 3:35pm Joshua Letourneau i like to say, "so you're looking for 250 . . . but will take 30k, right?" :P don't try that at home 3:35pm Dean Lockett spouse ...sorry 3:35pm Jerry Albright correct Eric. 3:35pm Jim - medXcentral @eric... isn't that the point of Pre or test closing? 3:35pm Jim - medXcentral to be sure... 3:35pm Susan Burns Dean - very important - and that should be checked early and often. Have seen it kill mamy a deal late in the process 3:35pm pam claughton Yes, I don't like surprises...I pre-close more than once generally because things are fluid and often changing. 3:35pm Eric Gilson yes 3:35pm Rayanne "would you say no to...?" 3:36pm Jerry Albright What I hate is when the HR dept offers them the job directly and says "let us know within 5 days!" 3:36pm Julia Stone one of Julia's favorites: Can I accept the offer on your behalf ? 3:36pm Rayanne hate that too 3:36pm pam claughton Yes, I hate that. 3:36pm Eric Gilson We don't let our clients present the offer 3:36pm Eric Gilson That is what we do 3:36pm Shannon Myers I ask that one too Julia 3:36pm Rayanne I ate an HR dept that changes the comp offered... 3:36pm Dean Lockett that's part of pre-close with HR, but still happens 3:36pm Rayanne *hate 3:36pm pam claughton I always have them call the client to accept directly with them...seems more binding and they both love it. 3:36pm Joshua Letourneau yeah, HR sometimes wants to "stick to their process" (the same one that leads to 20% fallouts for them) 3:37pm Jerry Albright Eric - there's always a rogue HR member out there - be careful! 3:37pm Susan Burns So its ok for acceptance to go directly to the client but not for client to extend the offer - logic?? 3:37pm Eric Gilson exactly Josh 3:37pm Rayanne true 3:37pm Jerry Albright Susan 3:37pm Joshua Letourneau i'm just playing :) but I run into that like everyone else sometimes 3:37pm Susan Burns Hey - careful about that HR thing ;-) 3:37pm Jerry Albright offer extension is sales. 3:37pm Shannon Myers One firm I worked with did offer with candidate then conferenced in HR to do official acceptance 3:37pm Jerry Albright HR is not typically a "closer" 3:37pm pam claughton Susan it's a control thing. They accept with me, and then with the clinet. If the client extends, too many things can go wrong as they don't close as well as we do. 3:37pm Susan Burns But are u dealing with HR generalist or with Recruiters? 3:37pm Jerry Albright they leave it quite open actually.....:( 3:38pm pam claughton it varies 3:38pm Eric Gilson Success is more likely when the driver of the process has a vested interest in the deal 3:38pm Susan Burns oh this is painful to hear! I gues I've been lucky to have very good recruiters working with me! 3:38pm Maren Hogan whoa go new guy! 3:39pm Joshua Letourneau a great trainer once told me that HR relies on us to use our own process - it's the only way we should take on the search with any degree of comfort (i.e. anything less is not an A+ assignment) 3:39pm pam claughton Susan, it's also what the client is paying us to do. 3:39pm Rayanne You can head off mos tof these problems by keeping open communication 3:39pm Rayanne maybe even have the negotiation and offer process mentioned in your contract or proposal 3:39pm Susan Burns Pam - if its in the SLA i agree 3:39pm Rayanne true, Josh 3:40pm Jerry Albright OK. So where are we? 3:40pm Dean Lockett what's lucky #13 Jer? 3:40pm Jerry Albright I skip that number 3:40pm Susan Burns Just to provide an laternate view - I have worked with TPR with great success but it was the internal recruiter that extended the offer - it forms an important bond at the beginning 3:40pm Rayanne good 3:40pm Dean Lockett face ur fears ;-) 3:41pm Jerry Albright that's one of my random principals Dean. 3:41pm Jerry Albright but we don't have time for it today. 3:41pm Joshua Letourneau agreed, susan - this does work with good communication. i couldn't agree more (to pam's point of pre-closing) 3:41pm Dean Lockett that is #13 isn't it? 3:41pm Jerry Albright let's do this one......... 3:41pm Susan Burns ANd Josh - agree that if it not a skilled corp recruiter then the TPR should extend 3:42pm Jerry Albright 25. Our job is not “social work”. If you’re in this profession to primarily “help people” you’re in the wrong field. Sorry :( 3:42pm Joshua Letourneau susan, we're control freaks :P 3:42pm Susan Burns and so are we '-) 3:42pm Rayanne no social work for me 3:42pm pam claughton Susan, agree it can work as long as there's communication and we know what the offer will be and can still pre-close. 3:42pm Rayanne communication is the key Pam 3:42pm Susan Burns Jerry - more info please 3:42pm Rayanne ' 3:43pm Dean Lockett Social doesn't pay the bills, like Social Security :-0 3:43pm Jerry Albright You need to keep your "emotions" off your desk. 3:43pm Eric Gilson absolutely 3:43pm Rayanne Passion is part of this job, though 3:43pm Jerry Albright We're not here to "help people find better jobs". 3:43pm Joshua Letourneau i get satisfaction from "helping people" and changing lives . . . but to your point, i can't help 'everyone' 3:43pm Jerry Albright Oh Rayanne - I'm certainly passionate. 3:43pm Rayanne I know that 3:43pm pam claughton Jerry, true you can't get too vested in any one outcome 3:44pm Eric Gilson How do you know if you are changing their lives for the better? 3:44pm Rayanne but I have certainly become too attached to candidates in the past 3:44pm Joshua Letourneau Eric, great question :) it's all perception, right!!? 3:44pm Susan Burns aren't u also trying to "sell" a better opp? Isn't that part of the pitch? So, I ask - is it authentic and sincere? 3:44pm Jerry Albright There are better jobs. 3:45pm Susan Kang Nam Eric - great question 3:45pm Eric Gilson I look at it as offering them an opportunity 3:45pm Rayanne If it is the right candidate, it isn 3:45pm pam claughton Susan, I think it has to be. 3:45pm Susan Burns Eric - only they can determine that 3:45pm Julia Stone You are being paid to find the best possible person for the job, unless the candidates are paying you 3:45pm Rayanne isn't a "sell" 3:45pm Joshua Letourneau sometimes you absolutely know when you're improving their lives (like when they're close to shooting their current mgr) 3:45pm Eric Gilson Right, so I don't go about my workday thinking I am helping or hurting anyone 3:45pm Jerry Albright Hold on a minute here... 3:45pm Eric Gilson I am just an information broker 3:45pm Joshua Letourneau other times, it's a money play and they know they might make trade-offs for more $$$ (like more travel, longer hrs, etc.) 3:45pm Jerry Albright I'm not saying the people don't benefit. 3:46pm Jerry Albright Of course they do. 3:46pm Rayanne I think of it as bringing all the pieces together 3:46pm pam claughton There's a fine line between pushing someone and showing them, giving them information to see that this role offers what they want. 3:46pm Rayanne When you push, you lose objectivity 3:46pm Julia Stone I don' t think it is a fine line. I just work to know the info before my clients see them 3:46pm Rayanne and it becomes only about the close 3:46pm Jerry Albright I've never pushed in my work 3:46pm Jerry Albright I hate that. 3:46pmpam claughton When you push, either client or candidate, then you have a great chance of a falloff, and those are no fun. 3:46pm Jerry Albright Really I do. 3:47pm Dean Lockett Takeaways are better than pushing 3:47pm Julia Stone ok that made no sense. I mean I need to know their sincerity before submitting them about the company. It NEVER works to push anyone 3:47pm Jerry Albright I use to work with a guy who would never take no for an answer. 3:47pm Rayanne true 3:47pm pam claughton I don't push either, and that's why I have an almost unheard of falloff ratio. :) 3:47pm Rayanne sometimes no is the answer 3:47pm Jerry Albright Then Pam - you're not pushing enough...... 3:47pm Jerry Albright :) 3:47pm Jerry Albright there's a balance there that's for sure. 3:47pm Joshua Letourneau churn n' burn - place n' bill :P 3:48pm Susan Burns From a corp perspective I apprecitae when a TPR can sell the opp but balance with the reality - I want a truly interested and invested candidate by the time they get to my desk 3:48pm Julia Stone I had a candidate the summer who the client wanted 10/10, his interest was a 4/10. I had to tell him to withdraw from the process & I Had to start over. broke my heart but boy did it strengthen my relationship wtih client & candidate 3:48pm Eric Gilson That leads to having to make Marketing Calls Josh 3:48pm Rayanne you did the right thing, Julia 3:48pm Susan Burns Julia- i would hire you with that story! 3:48pm Jerry Albright Gold Star Julia. 3:48pm Julia Stone yep, but it sucked 3:48pm Rayanne yep 3:48pm Julia Stone and i did get teh hire, just took another 2 weeks 3:49pm Jerry Albright (((((golf clap for Julia)))))) 3:49pm Rayanne yea!! 3:49pm Rayanne clap clap 3:49pm Julia Stone stop, don't, stop, really! :) 3:49pm Rayanne lol 3:49pm Joshua Letourneau Julia, i've been scared my client would hire a candidate i didn't want them to! 3:49pm Rayanne I've had that too 3:49pm Susan Burns Yes, sometimes you must save us from ourselves ;-) 3:49pm Jerry Albright Ready for another quickie topic? 3:49pm Rayanne SOmetimes you send filler candidates because they wat a field of ten... 3:50pm Rayanne yes 3:50pm Julia Stone ready 3:50pm Joshua Letourneau they're great at first . .. and then something is said to worry you . . . 3:50pm Jerry Albright 23. I am not interested AT ALL in being the first recruiter a company agrees to use. 3:50pm Jerry Albright Now way. Never. 3:50pm Jerry Albright Thanks, but no. 3:50pm Eric Gilson Send them my way Jerry 3:50pm Rayanne I agree 3:50pm Joshua Letourneau i like being a human pinata :) 3:50pm Jerry Albright You'll be sorry Eric. 3:50pm Rayanne Theya re not readyy for the process 3:50pm Julia Stone I have never asked that question. and I am so surprised you have 23 of these 3:50pm A Lonnie McRorey Correct 3:51pm Dean Lockett Doesn't tell me they are used to paying fees 3:51pm Eric Gilson you are assuming that the HM has no expoerience dealing with TPR? 3:51pm Jerry Albright Each candidate you send has to be so far above the rest - you'll never get there. 3:51pm Jerry Albright End. Of. Story. 3:51pm Julia Stone ooh, I have one too, do you mind? 3:51pm Rayanne no the company has no exp and cannot possibly understand all that is involved - response time, fees 3:51pm Rayanne etc. 3:51pm Jerry Albright Get your own show Julia........ 3:52pm Joshua Letourneau most companies reject a new process . . . even if the old is broken. it's human nature to resist change 3:52pm Eric Gilson It could be a great opportunity to educate your client 3:52pm Rayanne you said a mouthful there 3:52pm Jerry Albright Undoubtedly the "we want to talk about your fee" discussion will come up AFTER you finally find a good person for them also..... 3:52pm Rayanne I don't want to educate, I want to fill and bill 3:52pm Joshua Letourneau that's when you become the human pinata 3:53pm Rayanne undoubtedly, J 3:53pm Eric Gilson I would accept the search, but when we accept a search, we have guidelines that we accpect from the client 3:53pm Rayanne or there is the 3:53pm Jerry Albright I like your enthusiasm Eric. 3:53pm Shannon Myers what if it's a retained search - first time using tpr 3:53pm Eric Gilson You would start a search without nailing down your fee ahead of time??? 3:53pm Julia Stone I have never had someon try to renegotiate a fee on me after a candidate is in the loop, ever 3:53pm Jerry Albright Shannon-Ok then. 3:53pm Rayanne "we spoke to that candidate already..." speech 3:53pm Jerry Albright Julia - you should get out more...... 3:54pm Julia Stone maybe you are right 3:54pm Jerry Albright but I was really just talking about the "first time" fee 3:54pm Jerry Albright that was one of the reasons I'll pass. 3:54pm Julia Stone I will stay away from virgin fees, next? 3:54pm Jerry Albright His resume was on MOnster. 3:54pm Rayanne yep, they don't like paying for anything... 3:54pm Rayanne true 3:54pm Jerry Albright Julia - do you have a topic? 3:54pm Shannon Myers I've done semi-retained with my MD Practices who have never used a TPR, a small consulting fee to go through whole outline with them and then contingency for actual placement 3:54pm Julia Stone why, funny you should ask, jer? 3:55pm Rayanne hmmmm 3:55pm Julia Stone Rule #23.3 I always tell the manager something negative about the candidates when I submit them, but explain why I send them anyway. 3:55pm Joshua Letourneau companies now have researchers identifying candidates we submit - if there is a LI profile, they say they downloaded that candidate already 3:55pm Rayanne wow 3:55pm pam claughton Julia, why do you do that? 3:55pm Susan Burns Shannon - that is a great approach - its a nice way to educate and build a lasting relationship 3:55pm Rayanne that's happened to me so many times, Josh 3:55pm Julia Stone because they are used to us selling people, I try to show them we aer a partner 3:55pm Jerry Albright Julia - do you make something up? 3:55pm Susan Burns Julia- I like that - noone is perfect and it will help set the candidate up for long term success 3:56pm Julia Stone no, I don't 3:56pm Eric Gilson Why do you work with clients that work against you? 3:56pm pam claughton Josh, people are claiming profile on LinkedIn as a 'candidate' that's absurd. 3:56pm Rayanne that would be unethical 3:56pm Gregg Alper josh, thats the problem with working on spots where the candidates are all over the web 3:56pm Rayanne the whole, lying thing... 3:56pm A Lonnie McRorey Josh i can second that 3:56pm Joshua Letourneau pam, that's why blind resumes are a big-time no-no nowadays 3:56pm pam claughton I wouldn't work with a client that did that. Everyone is on LinkedIn these days, doesn't mean they are a candidate. That shows they don't respect the recruiter. 3:57pm Jerry Albright Or just cover it during the standard "step 6 - cover "shock" factors/negatives" which clearly follows step 5 - schedule the send-out.... 3:57pm Susan Burns Josh - I would ask for a date. And, it applies only if the candidate was in their system prior to the search 3:57pm Jerry Albright Susan - any company doing that is playing games. 3:57pm Gregg Alper pam, that is the biggest problem with tech recruiting 3:57pm Eric Gilson I would find a new client 3:57pm A Lonnie McRorey Had Client say that they saw candidate on Facebook 3:57pm Joshua Letourneau many firms market blind resumes to get a shot to work an assignment . .. but then the blind resume is identified by the researcher :) 3:57pm Susan Burns Doing what Jerry? 3:57pm Rayanne If you maintain an active database..., they will always be in your system.. 3:57pm pam claughton I have an issue with candidate being in their system too...if htey haven't called the candidate, how do they really consdier it theirs? 3:57pm Joshua Letourneau so blind-resume senders/marketers are killin us! :) 3:57pm Eric Gilson It's clients like that who think all TPR suck 3:57pm Rayanne Your client may keep a DB also 3:57pm Jerry Albright Finding your candidate names on the internet. 3:58pm Julia Stone they also will sign up lots of agencies (some clients) just to get you to agree not to steal from them, with no intentions of working with you 3:58pm Eric Gilson they think that because the good TPR fire them 3:58pm Susan Burns Agree Jerry. It must be in their proprietary system. Still questionable but I've seen it clearly written into agreements 3:58pm Susan Burns And, LI netowrk is not a proprietary system! 3:58pm Joshua Letourneau julia, yep - so the non-poaching clause should be limited to only if you make a placement (and then 6 mths, at that) 3:58pm Rayanne that floods he market and sometimes the "rockstar" has been approached a number of times already 3:59pm Susan Burns Jerry - this has been a fabulous CHAT. Is there anything you would like to add in the final few minutes? 3:59pm Dean Lockett Nice chat evry1, 42 participants..sweet ;-) 3:59pm Rayanne woo-hoo 3:59pm Eric Gilson sorry I was late 3:59pm Rayanne active today 3:59pm Julia Stone most of my agreements say they are only in place as long as the agreement is in effect 3:59pm Rayanne me too 3:59pm pam claughton Some of my clients will still credit me for a placement if I submit them a candidate that is in their system previously, because they didn't think of them...the old but/for standard. 3:59pm Julia Stone me too, pam 3:59pm Susan Burns I think this is a new record! Many new names too! 3:59pm Julia Stone great talk, Jerry. you inspire me 3:59pm Joshua Letourneau pam, KEEP that client! 3:59pm Rayanne Have a great day, all!!! 3:59pm Susan Burns Its a dicey game Julia. I have mixed feeling about it 3:59pm Jerry Albright Thanks for coming everyone! 4:00pm Julia Stone what game susan? too much flying by you lost me 4:00pm Eric Gilson Thanks Jerry! See you again 4:00pm Jerry Albright I've got 40 more random principals to share next time! 4:00pm pam claughton By all....back to the resumes! Great chat Jerry. :) 4:00pm Eric Gilson May I request a topic for a future chat? 4:00pm Jerry Albright If anyone would like to connect - just send me an email or call me directly. 4:00pm Jerry Albright 888-293-9249 4:00pm Susan Burns Julia - having to write in a deal that says if the candidate is already in the proprietary DB the serach is void of payment. Maybe a negotiated cost but agree - why didn;t the company find them? 4:00pm Jerry Albright I love to talk about recruiting! 4:01pm Maren Hogan Eric, contact Miss Susan Burns, she is the boss of the chat 4:01pm Eric Gilson thanks! 4:01pm Susan Burns Jerry - guessing that we could keep working down your list in next chats? 4:01pm Jerry Albright sure thing Susan. 4:01pm Susan Burns Eric - YES...please send your ideas 4:01pm Susan Burns Thanks Everyone! This has been a fabulous Chat. Thanks to Jerry for hosting such a terrific topic and generating great dialogue! 4:02pm Maren Hogan w00t Jerry! Way to bring it! Nice work. I got whiplash watching this mother move!…; Added by Susan Burns at 10:52am on November 21, 2008