Search Results - excellent technique

Topic: Developing a Sourcing Department: d? Are they set up by function; region expertise? How do companies source passive candidates? Do they outsource? If they do, where and do they off-shore? Metrics? How do you measure sourcer’s performace? How have companies adapted/changed the sourcing function given the new internet applicant law? What is the ratio of recruiters to sourcers? Is Diversity sourcing a separate Dept/function? ~ MC, Team Leader and Strategic Account Manager, TMP Worldwide I answered as follows and I thought some of you might find this subject interesting. I hope you do. You can view all the answers to the question above here. Your question is a set of questions and I will attempt to answer some of them from my decade long experience as a telephone names sourcer and as a trainer who has recently entered that arena. There are two types of sourcing: Internet and Telephone. They do not have to be centralized, but if I had to choose between the two I’d say Internet Sourcing is more easily centralized. Both types of activity draw specific types of personalities. If I had to say one word that describes people who enjoy this type of activity I would say Introvert. Of course there will be exceptions, but overall, I’d say this rings true. Introverts work best away from madding crowds. There are FAR MORE Internet Sourcers in this world than Telephone Sourcers. As Telephone Sourcing is the model I best understand I will continue to direct the bulk of my answers as your question relates to Telephone Sourcing. Recently there is great interest among companies to set up the function of “sourcing” onsite. Did you know this type of sourcing now enjoys its own Wikipedia definition? Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourcing Companies nowadays recognize the urgent need that sourcing passive candidates represents. In my opine, telephone sourcing best sources the “truly” passive candidate – the guy sitting inside a company’s brick walls who has no representation on the Internet and therefore cannot be “sourced” using traditional Internet sourcing habits. It takes someone to CALL IN and ASK QUESTIONS in order to locate those people. To me, and to my customers, this virgin possible candidate represents the best of both worlds – the possible employee who is busy doing the work you need him to do for you, only he is busy doing it for someone else. Until you come along! Then, usually intrigued by your approach, will spend some of his time considering your opportunity presentation. It’s a highly effective technique that delivers wild value to a company’s bottom line! I digress, I know, but I think you can see from my response how excited I get about the subject! As you can also probably tell, I’ve done a lot of writing on the subject. ;) Moving on, sourcing can be set up by function, region, expertise but I see this as more of a down-the-line evolution. It really depends on your own needs – what you require to be accomplished in your staffing organization. My advice is to just get the function started and manage it from there. Because it’s such “new” thinking for most staffing departments the hardest thing you’re probably facing is just getting others to understand what it is. Once they understand it, they might embrace it. I say “might”. It’s an extremely challenging space and though many will think it sounds intriguing very few will be able to answer its’ siren call. It’s very hard work! Many companies hire sourcers like me to do it for them. Third parties have been doing it for years and then passing the fruit of our labors on to their clients along with respectable percentage fees. Telephone sourcing can cut a minimum of 75% of third party costs but there’s a caveat here – though telephone sourcers can deliver you “the goods” it still takes talented individuals to develop these possible candidates and bring them through your door. It takes a different approach to develop and then close a truly passive candidate like this. There’s been discussion about outsourcing this function. In my experience, MAYBE some of the internet sourcing can be outsourced at this time but I believe it will be a long time before the language barriers and the hardware difficulties (no, VoIP doesn’t work for telephone sourcing!) are overcome to a point where this possibility exists. I could be wrong; I am always open to that, but I don’t think I am. Telephone Metrics: An excellent/great telephone names sourcer can do 200-300 names per week (the really really great, sometimes, even, per day!); a very good names sourcer can push out 100-200 names in a week, a good one, 100 names a week consistently, and a beginner should be able to do 25- 50 or so names per week for the first couple years. Ratio: I suggest one sourcer for three recruiters. Actually, I think what’s happening in the real estate industry could work well in corporate staffing departments: the team approach. It might look like this: 1 Sourcer 3 - 4 Candidate Developers 1 - 2 “Closers” 1 Administrative Assistant I know it’s radical – just “consider” the possibility! I will leave the diversity question and the new internet applicant law for others to address. I hope this is helpful – if you’d like to learn more about the arcane subject, we discuss telephone sourcing all the time here on the Yahoo group “Sourcers Unleashed” and also on the Ask Maureen group on the Electronic Recruiting Exchange. ****** Like what you just read? MagicMethod is brimming with information like this and will show you the inside tips and techniques of true telephone names sourcers! Subscribe today here. The Book of Sourcers is ready! Get your list of 200+ sourcers now here. NameSourcer blog. NEW Join the SourcersGuild Ning network here. Network for Names Soucers! Join the MagicMethod telephone names sourcing group here on RecruitingBlogs here.…; Added by Maureen Sharib at 10:53am on April 18, 2008

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Topic: MagicMethod Midnight Moves Chat Log: icMethod is brimming with information like this and will show you the inside tips and techniques of true telephone names sourcers! Subscribe today here. ****** Maureen Yes, it is. This RBC is a very active community with alot going on! Even in the middle of the night! April SallyR where in Hawaii? Sammee 'night all! SallyR Is anyone staying online? Bill Josephson Good group Thank you! Maureen Thank you for attending the MagicMethod MidnightMoves chat tonight - I appreciate it! SallyR Yes..thanks Bill Josephson Thank you for sitting up with us.......if I can stay awake again I will April Thanks. Maureen We have SO MUCH to discuss! Sammee Thanks Maureen, these are always entertaining! Maureen Will you all come back next week? Bill Josephson It was excellent Maureen This chat is one hour -THIS hour WENT FAST! SallyR @Maureen...how long is this chat? You must be sleepy? Maureen We didn't get too far into phone banks - we'll pick this up next Saturday again. Sammee It's only midnight here Bill Josephson Sally......I always prefer to work on my own Maureen Yikes- it's 1am already! Bill Josephson I don't really use linkedin...except I accept all invitations Maureen Tell me about it Sammee! Sammee Maureen, I know...how hard is that???? Maureen ...or maybe it does. Maureen Sammee Sorry for the poor grammar, by the way. SallyR @Bill...I'm a lone wolf unless I'm working with other recruiters for their positions Maureen Sally, because they can "find them" on LinkedIn themselves - never mind the fact - and you won't believe this - some of them won't know how to "find them" beyond that if the person does not have an email or phone number listed... I ROFLMAO when I realized that - I mean - it doesn't take a brain surgeon to find a company's number and then call... Sammee The thing I run into, is I do call into companies and direct headhunting, and I find someone who's on Monster or LI. Not always, but it has happened. Bill Josephson Maureen......I work lone wolf. I rarely speak with other recruiters unless it’s my client company's Maureen I'm not crazy about that request as I generally try to limit LI results (or any Internet results) to 10% or so of my search results - it's hard to avoid them these days! And it’s a pain in the you-know-what again to cross-check them! Except that when I do, I sometimes get corrected spellings… SallyR @maureen Why is that? Maureen Usually they do have them (Internet recruiters) these days Bill. In fact, I'm encountering requests NOT to bring in anyone off LinkedIn from my customers... Sammee SallyR, LOL Bill Josephson Maureen.......that's the winning approach Maureen Once I identify that, I dial one number after another, keeping notes along the way who is where. When I have a good number, I use them on the morrow when I "stab in". SallyR @ Sammee Bill Josephson My clients, that is Bill Josephson My companies have internet recruiters...anyone I find on the Web I assume my company already has Maureen April, I find the company’s internal dialing system. Sometimes, it will be extensions beyond the main number. Sometimes the company will use different prefixes, especially if it's a large org. Sammee I'm exceptionally good at acting befuzzled. SallyR This is fun! Thanks Maureen! Bill Josephson LOL Maureen Admit your mistakes- it makes life sweeter. Sammee SallyR, now you've got my mind working! Maureen No Sammee, I say, "I know I'm in the wrong department - I was trying to reach R&D - can you direct me?" Bill Josephson What you just said about getting internal dials and then calling directly Sammee Maureen, then do you say something along the lines, of "Oops, I was looking for ______ and got misdirected"? April How do you figure out the extensions? Maureen About? Weaponry? Bill Josephson Maureen....you are exactly correct Maureen It's a very, very effective weapon. SallyR @Sammee..I have a joke about that..but it's not for here...oh well Maureen "Stabbing in" - calling in directly to the company's employees using their internal dialing system. Every company has one - every employee usually has a desk with a phone - and it's that technology I am speaking of here - calling those employees at their desks DIRECTLY, avoiding going through the Gatekeeper altogether. Sammee SallyR Sometimes...we joke that even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then! SallyR @ Sammeee You're lucky April Hi,all. Maureen..."stabbing in"? Maureen It IS an excellent approach! Bill Josephson Maureen.....that sounds like an excellent approach Sammee Actually I partner with a recruiter who's had quite a bit of success with internet sourcing. Maureen Bill, what I would do (and do do) in defense or at companies whose phone directory is not easily accessed is to find the internal dial system, and then I just start dialing for dollars. Area code, prefix, extension. One after another, in order numerically. Writing the names down as I go and then, on the morrow, call those names directly using the "stabbing in" approach - usually by the fifth stab that answers I have the information that I need! Bill Josephson Sammee.....I feel as though every company and recruiter already knows the person Sammee Bill, why does internet sourcing make you nervous? Bill Josephson Maureen, yes. They don't offer directory assistance--just names through name recognition Maureen I see - Bill. Yes, I've encountered that in defense - it's another reason defense is so hard - - that said the name recognition stuff is a pain in the you-know-what! Bill Josephson Internet sourcing would make me nervous SallyR Yes.... Some stuff on the internet are old info Maureen Sally, you just started sourcing names off the Internet and then attempting to run them down? Sammee I need to do some mining, then. Maureen Very detailed Sammee. They usually list juts about everyone in the office in their phone directories. SallyR I don't know since I just started doing that Sammee How detailed do they usually get in the phone directory? Maureen Oh, you mean "say the name"? Bill Josephson Maureen...a canned voice will say if you know the name of the person please say it now. If I mention a name they'll connect me to someone who's close Maureen Explain Bill. Maureen Sally - did you answer - what % of name soyu find on the Internet are "still there" when you call? Bill Josephson Maureen....I usually don't get that in the phone package .....I do get chances for name recognition Maureen Everyone remembers that right? From calling repeatedly into companies trying to locate people? SallyR This is fun... Sammee Not only that, they respect you more if you do that...and there is more possibility down the line... Bill Josephson Sammee...correct. You must know when to walk away and do so, or they break your heart later on Sammee Maureen - sadly, not so much! Maureen A phone bank is a company's listing of names found in their answering service...you know how when you call it will tell you, "For our employee directory, press ...9” (or 6 or 4 - it just depends) and once you do you’re invited to locate people inside the company by spelling their names? Sammee Bill, I agree...and it's a differentiator when you walk away from people you can't help. Bill Josephson What are they? Maureen Do you ever do them? Bill Josephson Tell me about phone banks Maureen Butterfly valve designer- you're finding THOSE on the Internet? SallyR @Sammee...not yet Bill Josephson I believe the skill in our job is to decipher as fast as possible whether we can provide a useful service to the person or not--do they have incentive to want our services, or not Maureen We were s’posed to talk about how to do phone banks in here tonight - everyone know what I mean? Maureen Let's move on - Sally's head looks like it might be hurting from all that wall banging... Sammee SallyR...oh dear...I've so been there!!! Don't have a butterfly valve designer in your back pocket, do you??? SallyR Or I feel like I can cry Maureen Sally - that's funny! Maureen LOL Sammee! SallyR Banging head on wall emoticon Maureen Yes? You do agree or don't agree? Sammee That too, Maureen! SallyR Yes....that's why I like it when candidates come to me Maureen Or...a game of numbers quantified by skill... Maureen So Sally, you don't agree that Internet names might be more difficult to approach because they're likely to have been approached before, repeatedly? Sammee I heard something I like better...It's a game of skill that's quantified by numbers. Bill Josephson The trick in this business is not to overcome every objection to be a killer salesman--but to get to the truth as fast as possible with each phone call determining your prospects and weeding out your suspects SallyR I do splits.. SallyR When you call companies..its still a number game too Sammee Sometimes they do...but I always say that I'm keeping that confidential, just as I would keep it confidential if they referred me to someone. Maureen ”depending if I'm help other recruiters out” - what do you mean Sally? Maureen It sure is. I tell people that ALL THE TIME. This is a numbers game. SallyR most industries..depending if I'm help other recruiters out Bill Josephson Maureen, yes.......I know my stats. It's really a numbers game as much as people want you to sometimes think otherwise. Maureen Do they ask who Sammee? Sammee Hi all. I tell people that I was referred to them by someone in the industry. Maureen Any industry in particular Sally? Maureen Very, very good Bill! You know that though, right? SallyR Yes.since they don't know me..... Maureen Sally, then what do they say? Are they surprised? Bill Josephson Sally, I'm enticing them by telling them they have a tremendous opportunity to compare another situation with their present one...that they have everything to gain as they either have a job they presently like or a new position SallyR Then I tell them that I was researching and their name came up Maureen What do you say? SallyR How did you get my name? yes. I get that question too Bill Josephson Yes, I'd say if I actually speak with 50-60 people and can receive 8 resumes, one will likely result in a hire Maureen And, Bill, out of those 6-8 resumes, you usually can make a hire? Maureen Sally, you get what ? Maureen So out of an average of 130 phone sourced names in the defense sector, you get 6-8 quality resumes. I'd say you're working wonders! Maureen Good answer Bill! Bill Josephson Yes.......I tell them it's my job to find them cause they're not looking to be found Bill Josephson 100 sourced, leads to 30 conversations, leads to 4 resumes......so around 125-135 sourced names for a hire Maureen Sally, when you phone source, and then call THOSE phone sourced names, chances are you're calling peeps WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN CALLED BEFORE about other opportunities! This is one of the best reasons to learn phone sourcing - so you're able to access those "fresh" names... In fact, it's one of the things I often hear from people when I profile - "How'd you get my name?" they ask, rather wonderingly. Or, "I'm not looking for a job!" I welcome both questions! SallyR And that why I like it when candidate call me.....at least I have something to talk to them about Bill Josephson 125-135 Maureen To get those 6-8- quality resumes how many people do you have to phone source? Bill Josephson So it's hard in my space to get candidates and interviews, but when I do one of two interviewed will receive an offer Maureen Oh I see Sally. Here's one thing you're up against - BECAUSE these people are "findable" on the internet - usually you're not the first recruiting person to call them - especially for people in highly sought industries/positions - do you understand this? It's one reason your reception may have been cool in the past - they're worn out by recruiters calling! Bill Josephson But then the company will make an offer to one out of every two candidates I send SallyR I guess it's my training..I've always called companies & I don't mind the rejections from companies Bill Josephson It's hard for me to find candidates willing to make a change. I may need 125-135 quality resumes to get an interview with the company as they're selective Maureen So you feel tongue tied Sally w/out a resume in front of you, Bill Josephson It's hard for me to find candidates willing to make a change. I may need 6-8 quality resumes to get an interview with the company as they're selective SallyR It's like I feeling like..I don't know how to speak since I don't have any info in front of me...like looking at their resumes Maureen How so? Bill Josephson In my space it's different with hiring Maureen What do you mean Sally: "hmmmm then...I'm sorry I got the wrong number feeling" SallyR Hey Bill..I get those sometimes....with other recruiters I help out Maureen Do you think it would be out of line to say you need 200 phone sourced names to effect ONE IMMEDIATE HIRE? That's about where I tag it for defense...far beyond the normal of 30-50 that's usually needed in other industries! SallyR I do most industries..depending if I'm helping other recruiters with their positions Bill Josephson Maureen...yes, we did Maureen Didn't we just talk abt this on Thursday Bill in the noon MM chat? YES you have one of the hardest spaces to source/recruit in! SallyR Yes..then I get to the person...hmmmm then...I'm sorry I got the wrong number feeling Maureen Big OH. Bill Josephson But this was a problem in Information Technology as well Maureen OH. Bill Josephson Defense Engineering Bill Josephson Maureen.....I get that all the time, correct. Maureen What space you recruit in Bill? SallyR Bill has more experience than me Maureen What percentage of the time is the person "still there"? Maureen So she usually transfers you Sally IF that person is "still there" - right? Bill Josephson If I'm recruiting and sourcing, all it takes is one of my attempts to be leaked to the person's boss and the boss then either tells HR or sends an email to all their staff to not speak with me Maureen Some Gatekeepers are Bill - you know what? When she tells you she doesn't have titles there at the front desk - she's usually lying - you get this right? SallyR I ask for the name that I found from the internet -- Bill Josephson Maureen, I agree. Far better to get the names in your planning and call them the next day Maureen It sounds Bill, you need to learn some "technique" so they don't know you've been calling! You're losing your element of surprise when you reveal yourself... SallyR I agree with Bill Bill Josephson I believe gatekeepers are told to not divulge names--they're much more savvy today than in the past, IMO Maureen Sally - what/who are you asking? Maureen That's one reason Bill, I recommend you do your sourcing first - recruiting second. Finish the sourcing so you've captured all the names and then go at them FAST and FURIOUS - in one day if possible! SallyR Some gatekeepers are protective SallyR Why would they do that if they don't know you? Bill Josephson So my cover can be quickly blown if one employee leaks I've been calling to their boss Maureen No, Sally, I'm trying to get info - including names. I am trying to build, as quickly as possible, as gracefully as possible so as not to alarm her - as much abt the org I need to penetrate as possible - I want her to tell me names, admin names, extension numbers or direct dials, "other" people in the dept, I don't care that she doesn't give me "titles" at this point - what I want are NAMES - I'll figger the rest out later Maureen Maybe they have something to be paranoid ABOUT. Maybe, just maybe, they should be looking inward at their own employee policies and not outward... Bill Josephson And often the word gets around fast to the department I'm trying to recruit from a recruiter is trying to penetrate. They email all the staff in that department so they're ready for me Then I'd recruit and the person will say they know I've been calling, and aren't authorized to speak with me SallyR So you're trying to get a referral then? Maureen In the old days she'd list them all? Bill Josephson I believe companies are quite paranoid Maureen I use that name in a cat's paw fashion to extract other info... Connie Hampton taught me this expression. Maureen Usually Sally. But that's not usually what I want to do - speak to the person - I want to use the name I have to get other names... SallyR with the talent shortage..... Bill Josephson Maureen, I'd ask the receptionist for the names of General Accountants....that I spoke with one and couldn't remember their name. She'd list them all Maureen So both of you think companies are paranoid? SallyR If you have a name....don't they let you speak to the person? Bill Josephson Companies seem more savvy than they once were Maureen How did you do it in 1980 Bill? Bill Josephson Sally...they indeed are. I'm often told by the recptionist I won't be put through anywhere without a name Maureen Late 90 's? Hmmm... that would include most of my phone sourcing career, started in 96-97. I don’t think I ever really asked for depts - but I think there are some depts you can still ask for by name and get to...AR for one... Quality - I rarely have trouble when I ask for "Quality" - don't really know why. SallyR I think that some companies are afraid that you're stealing their employees Bill Josephson Makes me glad I'm not a rookie recruiter/sourcer today Bill Josephson When I first began in 1980 it was easy to navigate a company to find who you wanted SallyR Perhap I have to pretend the candidates are clients, too. Maureen Let's see what we can do to take somea' that fear away Sally... Bill Josephson Maureen....since the late 90's......getting much tougher to penetrate companies without a name Maureen When did you notice a sea change Bill? SallyR Well...it's scary... Maureen Funny Sally! Maureen I see - the high stuff, Sally, you find on company websites - sometime, if you read the press releases you'll find a little more- not much but maybe a little - Product Marketing stuff mostly... Gopi Hi Bill SallyR Oh yeah – cold sweat emoticon Gopi Is it Shally Steckerl there? Bill Josephson Hi Gopi Gopi Hi everybody Maureen So Sally, you're okay if you're calling a candidate who has contacted you in one way or another - but callng a company and asking a Gatekeeper for names is something that sets you into a cold sweat? Bill Josephson It's very hard now to get into a company without a name, Used to be able to ask for departments Gopi Hi Maureen SallyR Depending on the positions. like director, VPs presidents Maureen That was remarked on too...that today it's problematic (to say the least!) SallyR I don't have any problem if I find resume in that's posted but cold calling..it's hard. Bill Josephson Companies in the late 90s started only having online directories, then it became harder to get them from candidates Maureen Sally, what kind of names do you find on the targeted company's website? Bill Josephson Maureen, I use to get lots of directories up till companies started only had online directories Maureen at the outset...put some "mystery" carrot into the process... SallyR I use resume search sometimes... Maureen Bill, I read something not long ago here on the networks - a guy said (talking about directories) that he told his potential placements one thing at the beginning of their relationship - that once the person was placed - he was going to ask for ONE FAVOR from that person - and when the time came he asked that person for the former company's directory - I guess the same technique could be true to ask for referrals... SallyR and the targeted companies websites SallyR googles... Maureen Any particular place on the Internet Sally? SallyR Internet search Bill Josephson Usually people I'm trying to recruit I'm then trying to network through SallyR Some of the info are old... Maureen Where do you find the names Sally? SallyR Sometime I can find the names but finding where they are currently at Maureen Who in the org do you usually try to get names from? In other words, is there someone you approach first? Bill Josephson Trying to get names from people is the hardest Maureen Bill, what's nerve racking about it? SallyR I don't really follow a script. I just see how the clients acts Bill Josephson Maureen...I do Bill Josephson Maureen, yes....there are a few ways Maureen Bill - do you phone source? Bill Josephson Sourcing is nerve racking....recruiting, you just follow a script Maureen Bill I thought maybe you’re talking about using the phone to get names and sometimes numbers- you know how to do that? SallyR I'm used to calling companies not cold call candidates...I call candidates if they send me their resumes Maureen It takes ALOT of practice - many people don't get this. I mean - alot of practice! SallyR Like I'm not good at it yet Bill Josephson Using technology to get names/numbers SallyR Internet search...then I'm kinda shy about calling candidates..I don't have any problem when companies says no to me.. Maureen Welcome to the MagicMethod Midnight Hour - we're going to be talking tonight about things you can do with the telephone in the middle of the night! Who's all here? Midnight – Chat officially starts Maureen Sally and Bill, how do you source? Maureen I think recruiting would be much harder - though, let me say this front and center...I've never done it! SallyR Maybe because I don't really do what you do...u know the unknown Bill Josephson Of my sourcing and recruiting sourcing is much harder Maureen You think so? I don't! SallyR I think you your job is hard...harder than recruiting SallyR No.. Maureen Cool - thanks! Bill Josephson Hi Maureen SallyR Honolulu Hawaii..I have read your blogs on ERE for years Maureen Sally, did you read last week's chat log? Bill Josephson I'm here Maureen Where are you? SallyR No SallyR It's about 5:54pm here Maureen Were you here last week? Maureen Jus' about - I woke up at w/ a start! SallyR wow...it's midnight? Maureen Glad you could make it tonight! SallyR I am so glad you're not part of the stuff in the digging into... SallyR I was reading the world makes a path... Maureen Hi Warm –Up – this conversation started about fifteen minutes or so before class started.…; Added by Maureen Sharib to Phone Sourcing at 8:37am on August 31, 2008

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